Thurman DENIED!

[Jet23]

Yeah, I've defended Goodell before, but IMHO this one is indefensible. Now maybe they have some double-secret information about him stealing candy from babies or something, but as far as I can tell this is BS.

I have to think this isn't going to go over well with a lot of players. So far Goodell has been able to rely on strong support from guys around the league (and thus no opposition from the union). This might mark a turning point on that front.

I'm in the same boat - I'm all for cleaning up the league, but a 2 year suspension seems extremely excessive. One was fair.

The problem is, don't you want to reward those players who DO clean up their act? And if Odell has been aceing his drug tests (and actually showing up for them), shouldn't that indicate that he's starting to 'get it'? If you indiscriminantly throw the book at everyone, you don't look like a tough guy, you look like an arsehole.

Goodell does need to watch that he doesn't wear out his welcome with the players. Personally, I can't believe they've basically given him carte blanche power to do whatever he wants. Like you said, I'm wondering when that turns.

Hopefully Odell's lawyer is talking Gene Upshaw right now about contesting this decision, there is no good reason for Goodell to take this action. Odell has complied with every request made the NFL in order to get re-instated, Goodell is drunk with power and needs to be checked.

Upshaw is just a yes man anyway. No way would the MLB Player's Union let this happen. With that being said, if one tenth of the 'party incident' is true, OT is far from learning his lesson. He can say whatever he wants about doing the right thing, but the truth is in your actions and how you conduct yourself.

IMO there is A LOT more to this story. The way ML spoke of Odell never really fit what was reported. It always seemed like there was something else there. I got the feeling that ML was not expecting Thurman back, which tells me there is more to the story.

[Jonboat]

This sucks, I can't believe he can come out & not only deny his reinstatement but add to it with no explanation!!

I thought if he fails another test he was gone for good, maybe I was wrong, also if that was the case why didn't they say that... to me it wouldn't look bad for the NFL but just make Odell look bad. If it is over the party incident that nothing came out of except what appears someone trying to get paid he just made players more vunerable to false allegations by someone looking to get paid & is a bunch of bull!!

I think at the very least we deserve an explanation & if Odell met all the terms of the reinstatement the players union ought to jump in with both feet because even if it's not this case it's to the point where Goodells got to much rope & noone to answer to!

[GregCook]

So how long before the Bengals release him? Should be soon I would think.

[The PatternMaster]

Like I said, I live in NYC and I would be willing to protest/throw eggs & TP @ the NFL Headquarters or even get Tyler Durden on these fools and do some real damage because I know that will help Odell's cause.

[HairOnFire]

Yeah, I've defended Goodell before, but IMHO this one is indefensible. Now maybe they have some double-secret information about him stealing candy from babies or something, but as far as I can tell this is BS.

I have to think this isn't going to go over well with a lot of players. So far Goodell has been able to rely on strong support from guys around the league (and thus no opposition from the union). This might mark a turning point on that front.

Without an explanation from Goodell it's hard to know how to respond, so I'll mostly muzzle myself for awhile. But if Odell did comply fully with the drug rehab program and passed each of the tests then the additional punishment is not only out of line, but actually serves to undercut the NFL's own drug rehab program....rendering it as little more than a mildly entertaining hoop a player must jump through until a single man determines the players fate based upon whim or the current mood of the press.

As for whether this might become a turning point for the support that Goodell has receieved to date, well....I've got serious doubts that Odell Thurman or the Cincinnati Bengal franchise can boast of the public support needed to sully Goodell's gleaming armor, let alone crack or break it. In fact, some of the posters on this very board have openly snickered at the idea that the Bengals deserve a special fate simply because they've allowed themselves to become a whipping boy yet again to a national press corp that has always been all too willing to mock everything about the franchise. And it's also been suggested that if Goodell deals with the Bengals differently than other teams, well....it's deserved because of his past skirmishes with the much hated uber conservative fugtard that is Mike Brown.

BTW, I don't think Mike Vick's situation has had any impact on Thurman's punishment. IMHO Thurman simply isn't a player who is high profile enough to earn leniency from a commish who is far more concerned with public image than fairness. Thurman might be a very good player, but he's not even included in conversations about which players rank amongst the NFL's biggest stars and as a result he's not going to receive the softer treatment reserved for acknowledged stars like Steve McNair, Joey Porter, and yes....Mike Vick. Instead, Thurman's status is puny enough that Goodell can drop a bigger than deserved hammer and be seen as a hardline crusader. Hooray!

And before someone makes the point that it's only a matter of time before Mike Vick is ritually sacrificed, and I agree he will be, let's not forget the fact that Roger Goodell has more than enough evidence to act on that matter right now....instead of hiding behind a half-measure and stall tactics.

Last point. I'm actually hoping that when the explanation comes that we learn that Odell actually failed a drug test, because if he didn't then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Goodell is going to continue treating Bengal players more harshly than those who play for other teams.

[duus]

I just want a reason. Some reason beyond the current image that leaves me thinking it is the commish saying, "because I can". I surely am not going to start defending guys like Thurman, but if this type of unexplained year-long suspension occurs, this just might turn his life into a complete mess. It seems to me that, given Thurman seems to have done 'right' for the last many months, reinstating him may have proved a positive move for the rest of his life. This could very well have the complete opposite impact. Sad. I hope the commish considers such things as he shoots from the hip this way.

[J24]

I dont want to sound like a comparisist but the NFL looks to be anti bengal to me I mean just look at what has happened to our team since the kickoff of our last playoff game.1.) Carson Palmer injury due to a below the Knee hit with no foul called on the play whitch a month before Odell thurman made a similar play and got a 15 yard penalty,2.) Chad gets blasted by Brian Russel on a clear head to head shot in 06 home openor but yet no penalty or no fine on russel ,3.)KK made a hit on patriots WR Jamar Gaffney that looked to be a shoulder hit on a critical third down but yet was called an illegal head to head hit that gave new England new life in the game,4.) Justin forces a fumble that could have won the Bengals the game but yet was called for roughing the passer that led Bucs to a victory,5.) in Febuary Joey Porter Jumped and robbed Levi Jones and even pleaded guilty to the crime but yet no suspension.

[agreen_112]

i hope the little guppy of the NFLPA steps in here, this is BS without an explanation!!!

Odell had to've really f**ked something up, that's the only way this makes sence.

[Kazkal]

Fing Bullcrap. Goddell has to go >_<

[The PatternMaster]

Here's an article I got off of yahoo sports regarding Odell..

Bengals LB Thurman will miss another season

By JOE KAY, AP Sports Writer

July 26, 2007

CINCINNATI (AP) -- Odell Thurman's petition for reinstatement was denied Thursday by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who decided that the Cincinnati Bengals middle linebacker should miss another season because of his ongoing problems.

Thurman was suspended for all of last season after skipping a drug test and later being arrested for drunken driving. He asked Goodell to reinstate him for the 2007 season, but was turned down.

Thurman will be allowed to ask for reinstatement again following the season.

Goodell's decision leaves the Bengals with two suspended players as they open training camp. Receiver Chris Henry will miss the first eight games for repeatedly violating the league's conduct policy -- he has been arrested four times.

The Bengals are the league's prime example of misconduct, with 10 players arrested over a 14-month span. Thurman and Henry have been repeatedly suspended by the league.

Bengals players were expected to report for training camp in Georgetown, Ky., on Thursday, a day before their first practice. The team had no immediate comment on Goodell's decision.

At a media luncheon on Tuesday, owner Mike Brown supported Thurman, a second-round draft pick out of Georgia who led the team in tackles as a rookie in 2005.

"Odell has been through a difficult time," Brown said. "He's worked hard to bring himself back. It's the call of the league (about reinstatement). I know one thing: If he can get back, he's a good player."

Thurman was suspended for the first four games of last season because he skipped a drug test. He was arrested for drunken driving last September, prompting Goodell to extend the suspension to a full season.

He pleaded no contest to drunken driving in February and was allowed to enter a treatment program. On June 1, a judge in Cincinnati suspended all but six days of a 90-day sentence, and ordered Thurman to serve those six days at a treatment center.

That wasn't the end of his problems.

Two men in Monticello, Ga., filed a complaint alleging that Thurman kicked and hit them at a party two days after he appeared in court to settle the drunken driving case in Cincinnati. Thurman, who is from Georgia, was accused of assaulting the two men following an argument at a home.

The two men later dropped their complaint, and the case was dismissed without charges filed.

Can someone please tell what exactly is Odell's "ongoing problems", because according to the author of this article that is why he got denied re-instatement.

I think this has something to do with the relationship between the Brown family and NFL, as we all know they aren't on the best of terms. Obiviously the NFL isn't in the mood to do the Bengals any favors or give us any breaks. Maybe if Mike didn't go against the grain at the owner's meetings things would turn out differently for Odie.

But this puts Upshaw in a peculiar situation because he has to act if he wants to show the players he is on the job. Also I would like to see a guy like TJ who is all bubby-buddy with Goodell now speak out about this, something must be done.

[Walrus]

Last point. I'm actually hoping that when the explanation comes that we learn that Odell actually failed a drug test, because if he didn't then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Goodell is going to continue treating Bengal players more harshly than those who play for other teams.

Scary, but true. As pissed as I am, and as much as I want to believe that OT is clean and deserves to be re-instated, I have to hope that this action comes because he failed a drug test that we simply don't know about. Otherwise, I might have to start rooting for Mark Cuban's league to get rolling...

[bengal4life]

Like I said, I live in NYC and I would be willing to protest/throw eggs & TP @ the NFL Headquarters or even get Tyler Durden on these fools and do some real damage because I know that will help Odell's cause.

I don't even live there and I would be there in a heart beat. Well Karma is a motha and Fukdell will get his. Sorry for the language but I am severly PO. I'm about to throw my damn monitor.

To all NFL Players,

According to new league rules you can't even wipe your ass after dropping one without getting a suspension unless your name is Joey Porter. s**t I'd be suprised if Vick didn't get off scott free.

[The PatternMaster]

I dont want to sound like a comparisist but the NFL looks to be anti bengal to me I mean just look at what has happened to our team since the kickoff of our last playoff game.1.) Carson Palmer injury due to a below the Knee hit with no foul called on the play whitch a month before Odell thurman made a similar play and got a 15 yard penalty,2.) Chad gets blasted by Brian Russel on a clear head to head shot in 06 home openor but yet no penalty or no fine on russel ,3.)KK made a hit on patriots WR Jamar Gaffney that looked to be a shoulder hit on a critical third down but yet was called an illegal head to head hit that gave new England new life in the game,4.) Justin forces a fumble that could have won the Bengals the game but yet was called for roughing the passer that led Bucs to a victory,5.) in Febuary Joey Porter Jumped and robbed Levi Jones and even pleaded guilty to the crime but yet no suspension.

I agree, I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but at some point you have to look at all of the incidents that have occured and think that they can't all just be a coincidence. From the Mike Carey call, to the bs KK helmet-to-helmet call in a close game that gave NE all the momentum and took any momentum we had, to this, something isn't right between the NFL and the Bengals.

Maybe Goodell is paying Brown back for being a cheap bastard and drafting thugs, who knows.

[HoosierCat]

But if Odell did comply fully with the drug rehab program and passed each of the tests then the additional punishment is not only out of line, but actually serves to undercut the NFL's own drug rehab program....rendering it as little more than a mildly entertaining hoop a player must jump through until a single man determines the players fate based upon whim or the current mood of the press.

A good point. Per Odell's agent, he was in full compliance with the program. It seems unlikely that his camp would have claimed that if it were false. But stranger things have happened...

As for whether this might become a turning point for the support that Goodell has receieved to date, well....I've got serious doubts that Odell Thurman or the Cincinnati Bengal franchise can boast of the public support needed to sully Goodell's gleaming armor, let alone crack or break it.

I doubt it would make an impact in terms of public support, but I was referring to the policy's (so far) widespread support among the players. If they quit backing Goodell and start exercising their rights under the CBA, things could at least get interesting.

[walzav29]

He got in more trouble. Period. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Goodell isn't screwing around. You didn't hear of Peyton Manning getting accused of punching anyone. I'm glad. I'll miss him as a player, but I'd rather see it now than before the playoffs. This is a message to all of the troublemakers. You're not bigger than the game.

[Oldcat]

I doubt that there will be any revelations about additonal violations, since Goodell could have mentioned the fact in the denial.

Refusing the reinstatement is in his rights, and he's executing it here. There isn't a lot the Bengals or union or anyone can do.

The one thing that is clear, and has been staining the league's image, is that a fraction of the players don't take very seriously the

idea that their conduct can get them in trouble. PFT posts a rain of arrests from all of the teams just since January. Vick thinks that

the dog thing will 'blow over' and he'll be playing soon. The thugs seem to think the league needs them more than they need the league.

So here's Odell. His basic offense, after the first test failure, is not taking the NFL process very seriously. He blows off the second test and is

suspended. He DUIs while under that suspension. Theres no trials in process, so there's no 'rush to judgement' problem.

He plays for a non influential team, hes not a top player for that team but not a nobody. He's the perfect patsy, the perfect object lesson for

a group of young players who seem to thing that playing in the NFL is an entitlement.

Maybe Goodell is trying to get the league office to be feared by some of these players again.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Son of a bitch!!

[DesperateDerelict]

I'M DISAPPOINTED !!! Good-all, the NFL's self-appointed czar of morals, apparently doesn't NEED to justify his decisions - and there is no appeal.

I'm confused as to what benefit can come from extending this suspension - it certainly motivates players to do EVERYTHING possible to AVOID asking for help with any extra-legal problems. This smells like a punitive move against the team, and Odell was in the way of the steam roller.

Good-all sucks.

[CantStop85]

I think this is Goodell's email: Roger.Goodell2@NFL.net

Just throwing it out there.

[BengalByTheBay]

But, markymark, straighten up from what? That's the question.

By many accounts, Thurman has straightened up. Is this retroactive punishment for the DUI last October? If so, that seems hella harsh, punishing him twice for same infraction. Is it for the Georgia allegations? If so...well, WOW. That would be unreal, since nothing was ever pursued (Vick's been indicted, nothing further came of the Thurman GA allegations, not even an arrest).

If THAT's the case, then Thurman is being punished for an allegation. Punished maliciously, for things out of his control. What would stop anyone from making up accusations about someone at that point?

Even for Goodell, that particular leap would be breath-taking in it's naked abuse of power...

Yeah, I've defended Goodell before, but IMHO this one is indefensible. Now maybe they have some double-secret information about him stealing candy from babies or something, but as far as I can tell this is BS.

I have to think this isn't going to go over well with a lot of players. So far Goodell has been able to rely on strong support from guys around the league (and thus no opposition from the union). This might mark a turning point on that front.

Say it with me HC -- ARBITRARY! Now doesn't that feel better?

Seriously though, unless there is some fact that we don't yet know about a substance abuse policy misstep, Goodell is living down to my lowest expectations.

[DesperateDerelict]

I sincerely hope Good-all isn't planning on attending any games at PBS - his welcome would be similar to Bowie Kuhn's at the Reds or Art Modell in Cleveland.

However, I'm sure he feels better after lashing out at someone after all this dog-fighting crap.

[redsbengalsbucks]

This is crap.

Odell missed a test and got a DUI. He did not participate in a murder or get caught dealing coke across state lines, yet he is the player that is suspended for 2 full season or more.

It is sad that the NFL can get away with this two-faced policy. Stars do not deserve more leeway, if Odell is gone for another year than Vick should be gone this season also, and Pacman should be gone for 2 season at least. Porter gets a slap on the wrist for a mugging that he pleads out (admitting guilt), but a player that supposedly has followed the NFL guidelines is drop kicked out the door for no reason (at least no reason given).

What BS!!!

[J24]

Bottomline is this Godell does not want any more bad publicty for the NFl face it people the same thing is going to happen henry dont expect him to be back. The NFL is in a tough situation right Now with vick and they only care about the bad publicity and not the good people in the Leauge. Odell basically reinstated at the wrong time and is now paying Vicks PRICE.

[HairOnFire]

I doubt that there will be any revelations about additonal violations, since Goodell could have mentioned the fact in the denial.

I think you're right. Goodell's remarks about Thurman's "ongoing problems" are probably all he's going to offer and almost certainly are centered on the recent fight in Georgia. And as ridiculous as those charges sounded, and the high probability that they were made public in the hopes of seperating Thurman from some of his money, the fact remains that Thurman needed to remain squeaky clean for a full year and failed to do so. End of story, I guess. That said, the idea that Goodell would use that incident as a means for denying Thurman the chance to play for another full season does seem ridiculously unfair, especially when the police openly mocked the credibility of his accusers. But perhaps that doesn't matter to Goodell since the credibility of the accusers isn't the real issue. The real issue is if negative headlines are generated, and they were.

But on a more positive note....I no longer feel like the lone voice mocking Goodell's tough guy act.

[J24]

I doubt that there will be any revelations about additonal violations, since Goodell could have mentioned the fact in the denial.

I think you're right. Goodell's remarks about Thurman's "ongoing problems" are probably all he's going to offer and almost certainly are centered on the recent fight in Georgia. And as ridiculous as those charges sounded, and the high probability that they were made public in the hopes of seperating Thurman from some of his money, the fact remains that Thurman needed to remain squeaky clean for a full year and failed to do so. End of story, I guess. That said, the idea that Goodell would use that incident as a means for denying Thurman the chance to play for another full season does seem ridiculously unfair, especially when the police openly mocked the credibility of his accusers. But perhaps that doesn't matter to Goodell since the credibility of the accusers isn't the real issue. The real issue is if negative headlines are generated, and they were.

But on a more positive note....I no longer feel like the lone voice mocking Goodell's tough guy act.

Brillant post man, I have been hearing about how thier was a money settelement but if I recall correctly that same time on pro Football Talk .com there was a story on thier that said that their was no settlement and in fact Odell and his representatives gave the acussers the phone number to the Atlanta Constition newspaper.