Geathers Overrated

[whodeynation]

Pryce not receiving enough credit

By KC Joyner

ESPN Insider

(Archive)

Updated: July 10, 2007

In this week's installment of the NFL's most underrated and overrated players, I will be reviewing pass-rushers. The method I use to grade pass-rushers is based on the different sack types. The major sack types are coverage, garbage, individual, run and scheme. (The full list of sack types can be found in the complete glossary.)

July 10 Glossary

Coverage sack: A sack that occurs in the pocket, three seconds or more after the snap.

Garbage sack: When one defensive player gets a sack due to the pass rushing efforts of another defender. One typical example of this is when a defensive end crashes the pocket from the outside and forces the quarterback to step up into a well-blocked defensive tackle. The tackle was only able to get the sack because of the defensive end's pass rush, so he is credited with a garbage sack.

Individual effort sack: This is a sack when a defender beats an offensive blocker in a one-on-one blocking situation.

Run sack: This type of sack is credited when a quarterback starts to run after dropping back to pass the ball. The quarterback must be out of the pocket and pull the ball down, tuck it away and be running towards the line of scrimmage for a play to be noted as a run sack.

Scheme sack: Sacks that come off stunts or blitzes are tracked in this category.

Individual effort sacks are considered the most valuable because they show the pass-rusher can beat one-on-one blocking. Scheme sacks are also valuable because they show the rusher can be utilized in a number of ways.

Coverage, garbage and run sacks do have value, but I don't consider them great indicators of pure pass-rushing ability. Any player tallying a lot of these sacks may not be as good a pass-rusher as his sack total would indicate.

Sacks can also be split between categories. If a defensive ends stunts to the inside and is picked up by the guard, then beats the guard with a bull rush, the sack is listed as being half a scheme sack (for the stunt) and half an individual effort sack (for beating the guard one-on-one).

As has been the case for each of the overrated/underrated articles, players are rated based on their 2006 metrics. Pro Bowl berths are given significant weight in determining the perception of a player.

Overrated pass-rushers

Will Smith

Smith made the Pro Bowl last year in large part due to his 10.5 sacks, but those included three coverage sacks and 1.5 garbage sacks. Smith is still a very good player and probably deserved the Pro Bowl berth based on his overall game, but he is not as good a pass-rusher as his sack total would indicate.

Jared Allen

Allen's sack total (7.5) in 2006 was the lowest of his career, but he actually did even worse than the total indicates. Allen had one run sack and was practically gifted another when his blocker blew an assignment and left Allen completely unblocked. Only three of his sacks were individual effort sacks, and one of those came when Allen was matched up against a running back.

Others:

Robert Geathers: His 10.5 sacks tied for 14th in the league, but four of these were of the coverage/garbage/blown block variety.Bobby McCray: McCray racked up 10 sacks last year, but 3.5 of these were coverage sacks and another 1.5 were garbage sacks.

Underrated pass-rushers

Trevor Pryce

Pryce did not make the Pro Bowl despite registering 13 sacks last year. His sack total is even more impressive when you consider that 6.5 of Pryce's sacks were of the individual effort variety and only 2.5 were of the garbage/blown block variety. He is a superb pass-rusher in both one-on-one situations and when utilized on the blitz.

Mark Anderson

Anderson posted 13 sacks as a rookie last year, including eight of the individual effort variety, and also didn't make the Pro Bowl. Amazingly, Anderson's individual effort sack total would have ranked 26th in the league on its own.

Others:

Elvis Dumervil: Dumervil was a situational pass-rusher for the Broncos last year and put up 8.5 sacks, 7.5 of which were individual effort sacks.

Kamerion Wimbley: Wimbley's 11 sacks showed he had a very good rookie season, but it was the diversity of the sack types that put him on this list. He had 6.5 individual effort sacks but also had a total of two scheme sacks. The scheme sacks were all split with other sack types, so he actually had sacks on blitzes/stunts on four separate plays. He is just as good at moving around the defense to get past his man as he is at simply beating his man one-on-one.

KC Joyner, aka The Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN Insider. His core passing metrics can be found in the ESPN Fantasy Football Magazine, which hits newsstands on June 19. A free sample of his latest release ("Scientific Football 2007") is available at his Web site.

Isn't it pretty subjective to determine if you've beaten your man (good), or been on the recieving end of a blown block (bad)? I think Joyner fails to recognize that Geathers is a situational pass rusher, and is off the field more than on it... Dumervil gets love with 8.5 sacks as a situational pass rusher, and Pryce is a system DE if there is such a thing. No Bengal love in the national media as usual.

[Stripes]

I don't like much of Joyner's work, really. He seems bent on finding "The Grand Unified Theory of Football", but unfortunately it's a sport that cannot be reduced to mathematics. As for Geathers, I think Joyner is misusing the term "overrated". It can be argued that Geathers' sack total is deceiving, but he is still a relative unknown to most NFL fans.

[bengalsfansince68]

Am I to understand that Mr. Joyner concocted this grading system and he decides in which category each play in the NFL should fall?

Is this grading system somehow accepted as reality by anyone who counts?

Seriously, what is this? Anybody know?

[Kazkal]

Mark Anderson

Anderson posted 13 sacks as a rookie last year, including eight of the individual effort variety, and also didn't make the Pro Bowl. Amazingly, Anderson's individual effort sack total would have ranked 26th in the league on its own.

Others:

Elvis Dumervil: Dumervil was a situational pass-rusher for the Broncos last year and put up 8.5 sacks, 7.5 of which were individual effort sack

Meh Mark Anderson and Elvis were both products on how they were used...I really doubt either of them will be a starting DE in the nfl.

[Defender]

But how lazy is he?

[bengal4life]

Man, this dude puts way to much into a F-ing sack. A sack is a sack any way you slice it. I really could care less with this doush thinks. All I know is Geathers is younger than most, if not all, the guys on that list and will continue to grow. When did Geathers ever get any media coverage to be OVERRATED? We paid him because we need him. If this ass considers Geathers to be overrated because the bengals gave him a good salary then he can just go blow himself.

[DesperateDerelict]

Man, this dude puts way to much into a F-ing sack. A sack is a sack any way you slice it. I really could care less with this doush thinks. All I know is Geathers is younger than most, if not all, the guys on that list and will continue to grow. When did Geathers ever get any media coverage to be OVERRATED? We paid him because we need him. If this ass considers Geathers to be overrated because the bengals gave him a good salary then he can just go blow himself.

I don't know the author, but I believe his rating scale has some merit. It would be better if he could regrade players if they forced a sack, but were not involved in the tackle.

I'd be curious to see team totals - alot of coverage and run sacks would speak highly of the team's DBs, and garbage and scheme sacks would reflect well on the front 7. (If an o-lineman blows an assighnment, it's probably 'cause he's concerned about somebody else)

I guess individual sacks go to DE's that beat their man, ot DT's that win a bull rush.

Hey - it's the NFL - give me more statistics (IDP, AODB, STAT, JLGHDGJFD, whatever)

[The PatternMaster]

Baseball is a numbers game, not football.

[bengalboomer7]

He doesn't take into account Geathers doesn't play every down yet, and comes in is passing situations where he has a better chance at a "coverage" sack anyways

[HoosierCat]

He doesn't take into account Geathers doesn't play every down yet, and comes in is passing situations where he has a better chance at a "coverage" sack anyways

Exactly. But that said, Don't Call Me Junior has some steppin' up to do to justify the big payday he got.

[The PatternMaster]

He doesn't take into account Geathers doesn't play every down yet, and comes in is passing situations where he has a better chance at a "coverage" sack anyways

Exactly. But that said, Don't Call Me Junior has some steppin' up to do to justify the big payday he got.

If they put him in situations were he can use his natural athletic ability he will be a beast, if they line him up over guards and centers he will be a bust.

Geathers is at his best coming off the edge or run in the open field, imo, for his size he is fast as hell, whenever someone can run down Vick you know they got some speed.

[bengal4life]

Man, this dude puts way to much into a F-ing sack. A sack is a sack any way you slice it. I really could care less with this doush thinks. All I know is Geathers is younger than most, if not all, the guys on that list and will continue to grow. When did Geathers ever get any media coverage to be OVERRATED? We paid him because we need him. If this ass considers Geathers to be overrated because the bengals gave him a good salary then he can just go blow himself.

I don't know the author, but I believe his rating scale has some merit. It would be better if he could regrade players if they forced a sack, but were not involved in the tackle.

I'd be curious to see team totals - alot of coverage and run sacks would speak highly of the team's DBs, and garbage and scheme sacks would reflect well on the front 7. (If an o-lineman blows an assighnment, it's probably 'cause he's concerned about somebody else)

I guess individual sacks go to DE's that beat their man, ot DT's that win a bull rush.

Hey - it's the NFL - give me more statistics (IDP, AODB, STAT, JLGHDGJFD, whatever)

I guess I do kind of see how a sack can be broke down, but you can't say somebody is overrated when they get 10 1/2 sacks aren't nationally known to the media. Randy Moss, now, I would consider overrated. I just think this guy pulled names out of a hat, with double digit sacks, on who is overrated or not.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I bet good speed rushers make a lot of blocks look 'blown'. I bet Dwight Freeney gets a lot of 'blown block' sacks.

I also like how he called a lot of Geathers' sacks coverage sacks. I can easily disprove this. Wanna know how? OUR SECONDARY COULDN'T COVER **** LAST YEAR. Where was all this coverage when I was watching?

[Kazkal]

there is more then just a sack count....if you only go by sacks and type of sacks then dwight freeney is a pretty crappy pass rush DE since most of his sacks are off crappy teams and OT's....look at him last year he had what 2 sacks? coming in the bengals game then racked 3 up vs whitworth who was a rookie and a bad match up.

[HairOnFire]

The thing that jumped out to me is how all of the so-called overrated players were pass rushers who play on bad defenses, and with one exception, all of the so-called underrated performers just happened to play for outstanding defenses. In fact, the two players singled out as underrated, Pryce and Anderson, had the luxury of joining defense that withot them were already considered elite units with few flaws. Thus, neither player is asked to cover for weaknesses at other positions, and because the Bears and Ravens defenses are so outstanding the players within those systems don't have to rely on constant blitzing to produce stats. That not only means fewer sacks due to scheme and blitzing....but it also means players like Mark Anderson can concentrate on doing one thing well, and props to him for doing just that. But lets not forget that Alex Brown produced almost as well in the very same role....just as alot of players could do if given the very same opportunity.

[Kazkal]

Put geathers on the bears and I bet he would easily out produce mark Anderson and take his job

[Jet23]

I bet the majority of Justin Smith's sacks are 'coverage sacks', but I do not see that as a bad thing. He fights until the whistle blows. If the db's do their jobs, Smith will eventually get to the qb. This being the case, as our secondary improves, so too will our DL. That is one reason I see the potential for a big defensive improvement in the near future.

[HoosierCat]

I bet the majority of Justin Smith's sacks are 'coverage sacks', but I do not see that as a bad thing. He fights until the whistle blows. If the db's do their jobs, Smith will eventually get to the qb. This being the case, as our secondary improves, so too will our DL. That is one reason I see the potential for a big defensive improvement in the near future.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of Smith's sacks. I suspect you are right about a lot of hem being of the coverage variety. I firmly believe that Justin would easily have another 4-5 sacks a season, if not more, if the Bengals had a decent interior line. I can't count the number of times that I have watched him blast around the corner, close on the QB, reach out one hand...and miss as the QB neatly steps up into a pocket created because our DTs got blown 10 yards backwards.

[GapControl]

I bet the majority of Justin Smith's sacks are 'coverage sacks', but I do not see that as a bad thing. He fights until the whistle blows. If the db's do their jobs, Smith will eventually get to the qb. This being the case, as our secondary improves, so too will our DL. That is one reason I see the potential for a big defensive improvement in the near future.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of Smith's sacks. I suspect you are right about a lot of hem being of the coverage variety. I firmly believe that Justin would easily have another 4-5 sacks a season, if not more, if the Bengals had a decent interior line. I can't count the number of times that I have watched him blast around the corner, close on the QB, reach out one hand...and miss as the QB neatly steps up into a pocket created because our DTs got blown 10 yards backwards.

That is the best defense of Justin Smith I have ever heard. And you didn`t even mean for it to be so.