More Trouble for Odell?

[The PatternMaster]

A fight at a party is not a big deal, he shouldn't be there, but it's not breaking any rules/laws. Kicking the guy in the face... Hearing this just makes me want to see Odell on the field 100 x's more than before. I'm sure, if true, Odell's side to the story needs to be heard. And unless Odell actually had a gun in his possession and someone has a picture of it, I'm not worried about that one bit... Your damn right I'm coming back with a weapon if someone pulled one on me!

Patternmaster,

Actually I was speaking in defense to Odell, since at the time of my post the "rumor" was that someone pulled a gun on Odell first, then his boys came to back him up with their own guns... All I have to say, is that if someone pulls a gun on me they damn well better shoot me or I'm gonna f**k their ass up!!! Sometimes as a man, you gotta take the law into your own hands. Another man pulls a gun on me, I'm not calling the police. A man touches my daughter, I'm definitely not calling the police... I guess I just come from a different side of the fence than some of you.

Anyways, good luck Odell.

I hear you, but you have to look at it as what do you have to lose if you do follow through with your inital reactions. In this case Odell has much more at stake than anyone at that party and he has to be well aware of this, which is another reason why I doubt the events played out like the "victim" is claiming they did.

As for taking the law into your hands, that can be dangerous and people can end up in serious s**t. I remember late last year a young father in Conn came home to the news from his 4 year old daughter that the old man next door had molested her. He gets enraged, takes the law into his own hands and kills the guy. A few days later it's discovered that the 4 year old was never molested and the father goes to jail. moral of the story, call the damn police, let the facts come out and then if you not satisfied do what you need to do, a hard head makes a soft ass, especially in prison.

[DesperateDerelict]

It's NOT an internet rumor. It's an investigated incident. People are forming conclusions not on the incident, but on Goodell's possible reaction to the investigated incident.

Surely you must acknowledge that it is less than ideal that Thurman has put himself in this position vis a vis Goodell...

Absolutely, he should not have been there . . . . but the police (and DA and Grand Jury) do not have the job of investigating whether or not Odell was involved, but whether or not there is enough information to indict him => it's up to a judge and jury to ascertain guilt or innocence.

That's the way the justice system works, and why Good-all's strategy is so reckless. Any individual can be indicted (charged) on innuendo and the thinnest of circumstantial evidence, even before the investigation is completed. Actually, this is done quite often, in the hopes of getting someone peripherally involved to 'roll' on the main players. Doesn't anybody here watch LAW & ORDER?

As a matter of fact, I would think a charge would be MORE likely in the case of public figures, because cops are deathly afraid of being perceived as showing favoritism of any kind . . . and they know wealthier suspects can afford better attorneys. It is NOT their job to consider the ramifications of a CHARGE, such as embarrassment or consequences at the suspect's place of employment.

I'll say it again: It's called FEAR & LOATHING IN THE NFL . . . . Where's Hunter S Thompson when you need him?

[HoosierCat]

It's NOT an internet rumor. It's an investigated incident.

Police have investigated the allegations, but at this point you and I and everyone else have nothing to go on but (multiple and sometimes conflicting) internet (and now media) rumors. Maybe something happened. Maybe it's all bullsh*t. Maybe somewhere in between. We'll find out what the cops think Friday.

People are forming conclusions not on the incident, but on Goodell's possible reaction to the investigated incident.

Well, that shouldn't be surprising. We all know about Odell and his issues by now. The only real question to be answered is whether this puts him back on Goodells sh*t list. My take is that it doesn't unless there's a warrant.

[DesperateDerelict]

The only real question to be answered is whether this puts him back on Goodells sh*t list. My take is that it doesn't unless there's a warrant.

My guess is the opposite - Good-all will, at the very least, wait until the official investigation is 100% complete before ruling on reinstatement, and, worse case, refuse to reinstate or extend the suspension.

I think he can sit on Odell's upcoming case for as long as he wants, ala Tank Johnson.

[The PatternMaster]

I don't feel comfortable with Odell's career being thrown away because of an internet rumor.

No one is suggesting that it will be. However, if that internet rumor turns into an arrest warrant in a couple days, it's a whole new ball game. OTOH, if the hearing concludes there's nothing to the accusations, then it will all just go away.

Yep, probably. Ecspecially if Odell truly didn't do anything stupid other than be there (which he probably shouldn't have been any ways, considering his situation).

Supposably his brother put a gun in someone's mouth - I'm sure that's what the police are concerned about - that's a felony. WTF is Odell doing even putting himself in that situation? It doesn't get much dumber.

What the situation tells me though, is that Odell is still clueless, reckless, and stupid off the field and that he doesn't "get it" yet.

Therefore, maybe it's just a matter of time before he does screw up again in the future, and therefore Marvin may not even want anything to do with him - we don't know.

I hope Odell finds a way to ditch hanging out with the wrong people and commit himself to football instead of partying.

Apparently nothing's changed with him - who knows.

I am really frustrated with him - boggles the mind that someone who is now supposably "sober," can still make these poor decisions. Doesn't speak well for his future IMO, but, I dont' know everything.

Shula, were are getting that Odell's brother put a gun in someone's mouth?

You seem to think he's guilty of assualt based off the internet rumors and you want him to stop spending time with his brother because of something you read on the internet which none of know if it's true or not.

It doesn't seem like you "get it", just because Odell gets accused by someone doesn't mean he's guilty of anything.

[HairOnFire]

As for your running crusade against Goodell, I've never heard him say he's waiting for a conviction with Vick, I think you may be putting words in his mouth there. However, he may be waiting for the prosecutor in VA to say the same thing for two consecutive days. Goodell can act without a conviction, but it's going to be hard to act without charges even being filed.

I'm not putting words in Roger Goodell's mouth. Goodell and his unofficial NFL mouthpiece, Greg Aiello, have repeatedly claimed that they currently can't take any action against Mike Vick because the matter is still working it's way through legal investigations. And that's all well and good, but to claim that he's powerless to act until a later date ignores the fact that the most heavily punished player, Pacman Jones, still hasn't been convicted of any wrongdoing, and has almost all past charges against him dropped outright. Yet Goodell felt empowered enough to act proactively in that matter by using the broad and vague language of the NFLPA's Code of Conduct.

Simply put, in the Pacman example no actual crimes had to be proven or even officially charged, yet the player in question was suspended twice as long as any other player has been under Goodell largely because of the number of questionable incidents he was involved in. Yet critics such as animal rights groups who demand that some action be taken against Mike Vick find themselves being stonewalled by a commissioner who claims that he lacks the powers to do anything yet. But again, he has demonstrated that he has the power to act regardless of the charges or proof against a player by simply claiming that the players actions have sullied the reputation of the NFL.

And on that last point Goodell hasn't even been consistent about the punishment handed down, allowing some players to reduce their suspensions by meeting certain good conduct standards. For example, Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson can reduce their suspensions by attending counseling, an option that wasn't extended to Chris Henry.

Finally, it has been suggested that Goodell isn't very concerned with an isolated crime regardless of how serious it might be, and is most interested in ridding the NFL of players who find themselves involved in an embarrassing series of incidents. Well, again, the Mike Vick qualifies as it's just the latest in a series of embarrassing incidents involving everything from sexually transmitted diseases & false identities, to possible drug paraphernalia, to involvement in a dog fighting enterprise that breaks federal laws. So there's ample reason for Goodell to act if he really wants to, but instead he drags his feet and claims that he can't do anything even if he wanted to. And frankly, that's a load of crap.

Bottom Line: In theory I have no problem with what Roger Goodell is attempting to do, but I do have a problem when the actions taken are wildly inconsistent and the spoken message is both self-serving and hypocritical.

[HairOnFire]

Now, to be consistent, Goodell should also be suspending Mike Vick and Joey Porter, also under the "embarrass the league" umbrella, but I happen to think Goodell is a hypocritical prick, and such suspensions won't be forthcoming. That said, since the Bengals and Thurman are on the wrong side of that Goodell-is-a-hypocritical-prick line, I don't expect a similar "blind eye" from Goodell to this allegation. I just don't.

And there it is.

[The PatternMaster]

As for your running crusade against Goodell, I've never heard him say he's waiting for a conviction with Vick, I think you may be putting words in his mouth there. However, he may be waiting for the prosecutor in VA to say the same thing for two consecutive days. Goodell can act without a conviction, but it's going to be hard to act without charges even being filed.

I'm not putting words in Roger Goodell's mouth. Goodell and his unofficial NFL mouthpiece, Greg Aiello, have repeatedly claimed that they currently can't take any action against Mike Vick because the matter is still working it's way through legal investigations. And that's all well and good, but to claim that he's powerless to act until a later date ignores the fact that the most heavily punished player, Pacman Jones, still hasn't been convicted of any wrongdoing, and has almost all past charges against him dropped outright. Yet Goodell felt empowered enough to act proactively in that matter by using the broad and vague language of the NFLPA's Code of Conduct.

Simply put, in the Pacman example no actual crimes had to be proven or even officially charged, yet the player in question was suspended twice as long as any other player has been under Goodell largely because of the number of questionable incidents he was involved in. Yet critics such as animal rights groups who demand that some action be taken against Mike Vick find themselves being stonewalled by a commissioner who claims that he lacks the powers to do anything yet. But again, he has demonstrated that he has the power to act regardless of the charges or proof against a player by simply claiming that the players actions have sullied the reputation of the NFL.

And on that last point Goodell hasn't even been consistent about the punishment handed down, allowing some players to reduce their suspensions by meeting certain good conduct standards. For example, Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson can reduce their suspensions by attending counseling, an option that wasn't extended to Chris Henry.

Finally, it has been suggested that Goodell isn't very concerned with an isolated crime regardless of how serious it might be, and is most interested in ridding the NFL of players who find themselves involved in an embarrassing series of incidents. Well, again, the Mike Vick qualifies as it's just the latest in a series of embarrassing incidents involving everything from sexually transmitted diseases & false identities, to possible drug paraphernalia, to involvement in a dog fighting enterprise that breaks federal laws. So there's ample reason for Goodell to act if he really wants to, but instead he drags his feet and claims that he can't do anything even if he wanted to. And frankly, that's a load of crap.

Bottom Line: In theory I have no problem with what Roger Goodell is attempting to do, but I do have a problem when the actions taken are wildly inconsistent and the spoken message is both self-serving and hypocritical.

I think Goodell is taking the type of action he is taking with Vick because of what Vick has done for the NFL, he's one of the most recognizable names in all of sports, he has is Nike shoes, and his jersey is one of the top sellers annually.

Goodell has come down hardest on 3 young guys who have yet to make a name for themselves on the field but they have a made a name for themselves off the field.

[HairOnFire]

I think Goodell is taking the type of action he is taking with Vick because of what Vick has done for the NFL, he's one of the most recognizable names in all of sports, he has is Nike shoes, and his jersey is one of the top sellers annually.

Goodell has come down hardest on 3 young guys who have yet to make a name for themselves on the field but they have a made a name for themselves off the field.

I think all of the suspended players were well on their way towards making a name for themelves on the field. Tank Johnson is one of the better young DT's in the NFL, and Henry and Jones have both made multiple game winning plays.

But here's the rub. Each of the suspended players entered the NFL as known character risks while Vick arrived without the same type of baggage. So Vick is repeatedly given the benefit of the doubt while the actions of others serves only to strengthen the perception that people already had. And taking it a step farther, it's pretty easy to see which category Joey Porter and Steve McNair fit into....as both players have reputations that are mostly based upon what they've done on the field.

[BengalByTheBay]

I think Goodell is taking the type of action he is taking with Vick because of what Vick has done for the NFL, he's one of the most recognizable names in all of sports, he has is Nike shoes, and his jersey is one of the top sellers annually.

Goodell has come down hardest on 3 young guys who have yet to make a name for themselves on the field but they have a made a name for themselves off the field.

If that's true -- which it may well be -- then there is yet another unwritten rule about who will be subject to penalties and who won't under the "it is what I say it is" conduct policy. You can add that to the "prior incidents may, or may not, qualify as prior incidents depending on what I think" and the "I don't have to wait for a criminal determination unless I decide I do" clauses.

I think the flaw in Goodell's reasoning was that he thought there would be a deterrent effect to his whacking the hell out of a couple of poster children for all to see. It looks to me that after everybody stepped back and said "wow - he's really serious about this conduct thing", the players are sort of back to business as usual. It's been a short sample time, but if anything it looks like criminal behavior is equal or greater than it was before. What does he do about Kircus, Porter, Vick.... Other than the fact that they're not Bengals players, it looks like there are at least as many players getting in trouble this year as last offseason. So, now Goodell has to either start whacking a few more guys that he didn't foresee to prove his commissionerhood, or the players are going to see it for the policy it is -- inconsistent and designed primarily for public consumption rather than real effect.

[DesperateDerelict]

. . . then there is yet another unwritten rule about who will be subject to penalties and who won't under the "it is what I say it is" conduct policy. You can add that to the "prior incidents may, or may not, qualify as prior incidents depending on what I think" and the "I don't have to wait for a criminal determination unless I decide I do" clauses.

I think the flaw in Goodell's reasoning was that he thought there would be a deterrent effect to his whacking the hell out of a couple of poster children for all to see . . . now Goodell has to either start whacking a few more guys that he didn't foresee to prove his commissionerhood, or the players are going to see it for the policy it is -- inconsistent and designed primarily for public consumption rather than real effect.

Good post, Bay-Boy - you get to play in our fantasy league this year

The reason dictators . . . even benevolent dictators . . . are impossible to deal with is that they are so unpredictable, seemingly subject to whims, and without any checks and balances.

Of course, if any player doesn't like Good-alls rulings, they can appeal to . . . um, nevermind.

[HairOnFire]

It's been a short sample time, but if anything it looks like criminal behavior is equal or greater than it was before. What does he do about Kircus, Porter, Vick.... Other than the fact that they're not Bengals players, it looks like there are at least as many players getting in trouble this year as last offseason. So, now Goodell has to either start whacking a few more guys that he didn't foresee to prove his commissionerhood, or the players are going to see it for the policy it is -- inconsistent and designed primarily for public consumption rather than real effect.

Yup. On another board a PFT article was posted that claimed NFL arrests had doubled in the last two years, and if this years numbers were projected over a full year would nearly double yet again. If true, a policy that addresses only high profile incidents involving players who happen to get into trouble repeatedly over a short period of time ISN'T likely to have any impact except in the press.

If it's to be effective the policy needs to be fair and logical, so that players not only know what to expect, but have no reason to assume their circumstance will be treated with leniency due to the size of their paychecks, their importance to their teams, or due to their previously unblemished reputations.

[Kirkendall]

I have to admit, I expected this threat to trash Odell. Like many of you, I'm in the "wait and see" mode before judgment.

Also, Roger Goodell is well on his way to hurting this league big time from personal interpretation of self righteous judgment.

[Kazkal]

Seems more and more like BS,hopefully you won't miss time because of these dickheads Odell.

THURMAN CHARGES A MONEY GRAB?

A league source tells us that the pool of persons who were allegedly roughed up over the weekend in Georgia by Bengals linebacker Odell Thurman has grown to four -- and that they are willing to drop all charges and put the matter behind them.

In exchange for a payment in the amount of $250,000. Each.

Per the source, the Thurman camp politely (or otherwise) declined. The quartet then threatened to take the thing to the media, to which the Thuman camp responded by providing the phone number to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

Indeed, the charges already have hit the press. Thus, the threat to go public is, at this point, sort of meaningless.

Due to the fact that the alleged victims waited until the next day to call the cops, a hearing will be held on Friday to determine whether an arrest warrant will be issued for Thurman.

Thurman is currently serving a one-year suspension for violations of the NFL's substance-abuse policy. He could face separate discipline under the Personal Conduct Policy based on the outcome of the situation in Georgia.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm not putting words in Roger Goodell's mouth. Goodell and his unofficial NFL mouthpiece, Greg Aiello, have repeatedly claimed that they currently can't take any action against Mike Vick because the matter is still working it's way through legal investigations. And that's all well and good, but to claim that he's powerless to act until a later date ignores the fact that the most heavily punished player, Pacman Jones, still hasn't been convicted of any wrongdoing, and has almost all past charges against him dropped outright. Yet Goodell felt empowered enough to act proactively in that matter by using the broad and vague language of the NFLPA's Code of Conduct.

Simply put, in the Pacman example no actual crimes had to be proven or even officially charged, yet the player in question was suspended twice as long as any other player has been under Goodell largely because of the number of questionable incidents he was involved in. Yet critics such as animal rights groups who demand that some action be taken against Mike Vick find themselves being stonewalled by a commissioner who claims that he lacks the powers to do anything yet. But again, he has demonstrated that he has the power to act regardless of the charges or proof against a player by simply claiming that the players actions have sullied the reputation of the NFL.

And on that last point Goodell hasn't even been consistent about the punishment handed down, allowing some players to reduce their suspensions by meeting certain good conduct standards. For example, Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson can reduce their suspensions by attending counseling, an option that wasn't extended to Chris Henry.

Finally, it has been suggested that Goodell isn't very concerned with an isolated crime regardless of how serious it might be, and is most interested in ridding the NFL of players who find themselves involved in an embarrassing series of incidents. Well, again, the Mike Vick qualifies as it's just the latest in a series of embarrassing incidents involving everything from sexually transmitted diseases & false identities, to possible drug paraphernalia, to involvement in a dog fighting enterprise that breaks federal laws. So there's ample reason for Goodell to act if he really wants to, but instead he drags his feet and claims that he can't do anything even if he wanted to. And frankly, that's a load of crap.

Bottom Line: In theory I have no problem with what Roger Goodell is attempting to do, but I do have a problem when the actions taken are wildly inconsistent and the spoken message is both self-serving and hypocritical.

Ah, but nowhere in that does Goodell say he has to wait for a conviction with Vick - sounds more like what I read from it, which is he has to at least wait for the cops to do *something*. He probably can't nail the guy without charges even being filed, or anything similar. Note the bottleneck here is the local morons in Redneck County, not Goodell.

The difference with Pacman is he was arrested, charged, interviewed, or had his property seized something like 10 times. I mean, come on.

Let's give the man the benefit of the doubt on Vick. There's no reason to swoop on this, the season doesn't start for a few months. You're right, this is Vick's...what...second or third incident that has warranted the attention of authorities? Three isn't 10 like with Pacman. Also note none of Vick's involve violence against a human. He didn't beat the crap out of someone at a nightclub. He did have a questionable water bottle, but the cops screwed the pooch on that one by using (I think) probably insufficiently sensitive equipment to detect the pot. Sadly, equipment at a decent university would have nailed him.

I really don't understand it - It's like you expect Goodell to be a toggle switch - either he does nothing without 10 convictions or he lets guys do whatever they want. So far, I think his punishments have been reasonable. Let's see what he does with Vick when the cops sort out what they plan to do, though that doesn't mean waiting for the legal system to finish.

As for the 'ridding the league of recidivist idiots' - yeah, that's definitely his goal, and I see nothing wrong with it. But he's not ignoring isolated crimes I don't think, it's just that for a single incident, you probably do need a conviction. Note the 8 games received by Tank Johnson for his illegal weapons cache. Basically, if you do one really bad thing they can prove, you're gone for a while. If you do a bunch of less bad things that may or may not have resulted in a conviction, but for which a reasonable person would presume likely guilt - you're gone for a while. I have no problem with that.

Put another way - other than Vick and Porter, for whom I propose we wait and see - whose punishment (or lack thereof) was too high or too low?

[Judge]

Why hasn't there been any new's on bengals.com about this? My dad told me about it, from an article on USA Today (I think) but none from Bengals.com, usually there open about this kind of stuff.

[Judge]

From NFL.com:

CINCINNATI (June 5, 2007) -- Suspended Bengals linebacker Odell Thurman has been accused of kicking and hitting two men in his Georgia hometown during the weekend. He has not been charged with a crime, but a magistrate will hear testimony June 8 to determine if charges should be filed.

The NFL suspended Thurman for the first four games of 2006 after he skipped a drug test. The suspension was extended to a full season following his arrest on a drunken driving charge in September. Thurman is one of nine Cincinnati players to be arrested in the past year.

Two men filed a complaint June 3 with police in Monticello, Ga., southeast of Atlanta, accusing Thurman of assaulting them early June 3 following an argument at a home, Jasper County Chief Magistrate Ken Jackson said. The men accused Thurman's brother, Willie Thurman, of threatening them with a gun.

"Evidently, this was some type of party in the wee hours of the morning," Jackson said.

Because the allegations were not reported quickly and police were unable to conduct an immediate investigation, Jackson said, a county magistrate will hear testimony to determine if anyone should be charged.

Messages seeking comment were left with Odell Thurman's agent and with the NFL.

Thurman pleaded no contest to the drunken driving charge in February. Last Friday, a judge in Cincinnati suspended all but six days of a 90-day sentence and ordered Thurman to serve those six days at a treatment center.

Thurman played two seasons at Georgia and was drafted by Cincinnati in the second round of the 2005 draft. He led the Bengals in tackles that season with 148.

Thurman can apply for reinstatement for this coming season, although earlier this year coach Marvin Lewis refused to talk about whether Thurman still figured in the team's plans.

Bengals spokesman Jack Brennan said the team had no comment on the latest allegations.

"His situation is controlled by the league, he's not officially on our roster," Brennan said. "Since his possible reinstatement is in the league's hands, we would defer any comment to the league."

[Bobcat Bengal]

^^^^^

That's a wrap, folks. The Thurmanator won't sniff the field again, at least not the NFL's.

I guess I can now officially lose my Thurman jersey.

IF Odell was even at that party with a gun - that's enough for me to not have any faith in his ability to grow up and become a reliable player regardless. He's still hanging out with the wrong people if this is at all true.

THERE IT IS.

[Judge]

I still have hope.

I just heard an article about how Odell admitted he was an alcholic, his parents where, and he was getting better.

He just seems to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[HoosierCat]

Seems more and more like BS

Yeah, I think Florio called it. This is just a backwoods extortion attempt.

My bet now is that the hearing dismisses all the allegations and we never hear about this again. Oh, and Goodell does nothing.

[SkinneymulleT]

There is no way the commish will discipline odell over this an in effect provide a precedent to all the money grabbing weenies who will try to cash in on future extortion attempts by trying to start fight with nfl players. Maybe a fight did happen but, come on who hasnt gotten in a fight. And as for the guns.....please someone pulls a gun and im dialing 911. They didnt so it didnt happen or atleast not as they claim and no DA will touch it when the alledged victim has unclean hands.

[The PatternMaster]

There is no way the commish will discipline odell over this an in effect provide a precedent to all the money grabbing weenies who will try to cash in on future extortion attempts by trying to start fight with nfl players. Maybe a fight did happen but, come on who hasnt gotten in a fight. And as for the guns.....please someone pulls a gun and im dialing 911. They didnt so it didnt happen or atleast not as they claim and no DA will touch it when the alledged victim has unclean hands.

I know this whole situation is total bs, but Georgia is the same state has locked up a few talented football players for years on evidence that was weak at best.

Genarlow Wilson is currently incarcerated after a 17 year old girl claimed he and his friends raped her, they were at a hotel party and the incident was video taped. The video tape cleared Wilson of rape charges but since he was also video taped receiving oral sex from a 15 year old, he was sentenced to 10 years mandatory in prison. Wilson was only 17 at the time and he was an all state football player and honors student at his high school, because Wilson wouldn't take the plea bargin deal in which he would plead guilty to a lesser crime, but have to register as a sex offender he had to "pay the price" to quote the racist DA in the hick county that the trail took place in.

There was also another kid who was a star football player, who was black, who had sex with a white teenage 15 year old on school property. The girl's dad is a racist and in order to save face she claims she was raped. Meanwhile the football has a full scholarship to Vandy awaiting him upon graduation, long story short he goes to prison for a few years only getting released after Bryant Gumbel profiles his story on "Real Sports" on HBO. The kid is now enrolled at Hampton Univ. playing football.

I say all of that to say this isn't a slam dunk for Odell regardless of obvious it is that the whole situation is total and complete bulls**t. But I hope common sense and reason will rule the day come Friday and Odell is cleared of any wrong doing.

[SkinneymulleT]

Um, the state cant just lock you up. There must have been enough evidence for a jury of peers to convict the rapist of breaking a specific law. Here you have a native football star, evidence of a fight and at best a he said he said bunch of crap with a shake down attached. If florio is right, then there is either a letter or a message or a witness who can corraborate the shake down. No way no how. Not worth the time or money. Fights happen every weekend at every college in america. And any attorney on the earth should be able to get this dismissed if charges are filed. And why did odell have to return to the house? didnt he just beat the crap out of everyone? Why come back...unless they did something to him like pull a gun or jumped him or something.

[The PatternMaster]

Um, the state cant just lock you up. There must have been enough evidence for a jury of peers to convict the rapist of breaking a specific law. Here you have a native football star, evidence of a fight and at best a he said he said bunch of crap with a shake down attached. If florio is right, then there is either a letter or a message or a witness who can corraborate the shake down. No way no how. Not worth the time or money. Fights happen every weekend at every college in america. And any attorney on the earth should be able to get this dismissed if charges are filed. And why did odell have to return to the house? didnt he just beat the crap out of everyone? Why come back...unless they did something to him like pull a gun or jumped him or something.

That's the point, it's an injustice that these kids were locked up. Unfortunately innocent people do get locked up for crimes they didn't commit. Happens all the time.

[HairOnFire]

I really don't understand it - It's like you expect Goodell to be a toggle switch - either he does nothing without 10 convictions or he lets guys do whatever they want.

I agree, you don't understand it. Pacman wan't convicted 10 times. The charges or investigations were dropped each and every time. Yet that didn't stop Goodell from handing out a full season suspension, the most lengthy handed out under the new policy. So not only didn't Goodell wait for a conviction....he proved it wasn't required. So he can act against Mike Vick immediately if he so chooses, but not has he chosen not to do so....he's claimed that he can't because the legal system hasn't produced a conviction. And that's pure crap.

Again, I have no desire to defend Pacman Jones or attack Mike Vick, but I'd like to see a little more consistency from the commish's office, and a little less hypocrisy. And returning the conversation to Bengal related matters, I think you have to question why Chris Henry wasn't given the same opportunity to reduce his suspension as Pacman and Tank were granted.