Marvin Fires Back

[Jet23]

I don't know if they are 'targeting' Bengals, but it doesn't appear as if they are cutting them any slack. I definitely believe that professional athletes in Cincinnati are scrutinized differently than professional athletes in other cities. Everyone here wants to get a name by 'bagging' the big name coach or athlete. Put the same team in Chicago, and you probably have less than half of the arrests. For example, what other city has a damn road block every 4 feet?

Great points. Obviously professional athletes are high profile personalities no matter where you go, but depending on where you happen to live that status doesn't automatically make them targets. Some cities embrace them and willingly engage in covering up their misdeeds while other cities make a point of holding them to a higher standard due to the belief that role models deserve greater scrutiny than the Average Joe. But there's the rub because however you may feel about whether or not they deserve to be viewed as role models...we're still talking about football players.

How about staking someone out waiting for him to drive on a suspended license? That's maximizing the ole tax dollar there. I have lived here most of my life, but the ineptitude of our elected officials is really starting to wear on me. Now the wizards want to pay a consultant 50K to look into making the entire city wireless. Are you kidding me? Even cities with a clue, can't figure out how to make money at that. And I'm still holiding my breath waiting for the Banks Project.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

So driving around in the middle of the day in the poorest, most crime ridden, drug infested neighborhood in town, in a big old $50k Escalade, is not asking for trouble? That's "profiling?"

Yes - that's pretty much the definition of profiling - extrapolating from readily discernible characteristics and inferring less evident truths based on the immediately apparent.

It might be a good idea to try explaining that to Shula again. He rarely grasps things the first time...even when they're obvious.

Nugget brain - Marvin referred to the "profiling OF HIS PLAYERS"

My point is that ANYONE driving around OTR suspiciously in such a vehicle (as I'm sure Henry was) would also most likely get pulled over for a minor offense just to see what they were up to in that area. That neighborhood has a notoriously bad drug problem and shootings happen constantly. People sell drugs on street corners left and right.

I live near downtown, I know that area from growing up here all my life. My guess is you probably don't.

If he wants to call it racial profiling - fine - but to say "his players" are being picked on or profiled is just stupid. He has nothing to back up that statement other than Chris Henry...a guy he can hardly make excuses for.

[HairOnFire]

How about staking someone out waiting for him to drive on a suspended license? That's maximizing the ole tax dollar there.

That was exactly why I offered that nugget. Granted, it COULD be argued that it's just an example of the police doing their job, but at what price and to what end? Personally, I think Lewis is absolutely correct to claim that his players are being profiled when a backpedaling prosecutor volunteers the information that the police had staked out Nicholson's home on the off chance that he might break a fairly minor law. Or as in the example that Lewis mentioned in the interview, when a turn-signal violation is used in an attempt to end the career of Chris Henry.

Nobody is demanding that Bengal players be given breaks that the average person doesn't get. Just treat 'em the same.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Oh yeah - someone call Jeff Blake and ask if he had any problems with cops "picking on him" because he was a Bengal here.

The freakin' cop offered to drive him home personally if you recall, when he got his DUI.

Marvin's statement was stupid and irresponsible, and contradictory.

That is the only problem I have with it - but ultimately I really don't care that much. Just win games Marvin, spare us any social commentary or excuses.

[oldschooler]

I think your taking his comments the wrong way;he never I said" I have no responsibility", he said that Mike is the one who has to answer to Goodell, not him.

For whatever it might be worth, I was reading a recap of the interview on GoBengals and someone there had posted a weblink for those who missed the interview. Frankly, I did the best note taking that my time at work allowed, but let's face it....I only posted the highlites. Not only was there stuff in the interview that I didn't find worthy of passing along, but if you listen for yourself you can hear the actual questions being asked as well as better judge Marvin's attitue.

Marvin on Dan Patrick show

[ShulaSteakhouse]

How about staking someone out waiting for him to drive on a suspended license? That's maximizing the ole tax dollar there.

That was exactly why I offered that nugget. Granted, it COULD be argued that it's just an example of the police doing their job, but at what price and to what end? Personally, I think Lewis is absolutely correct to claim that his players are being profiled when a backpedaling prosecutor volunteers the information that the police had staked out Nicholson's home on the off chance that he might break a fairly minor law. Or as in the example that Lewis mentioned in the interview, when a turn-signal violation is used in an attempt to end the career of Chris Henry.

Nobody is demanding that Bengal players be given breaks that the average person doesn't get. Just treat 'em the same.

The cops "staked out" his home (if they even did), because they had repeatedly been called there in the past for domestic problems. Little townships like that will probably merit their attention when you have a history of problems involving the police.

I usually don't take up for cops - more bad than good ones out there from my experience - but am just tired of the Bengals' deflecting blame for their idiotic behavior in public.

[oldschooler]

The cops "staked out" his home (if they even did), because they had repeatedly been called there in the past for domestic problems. Little townships like that will probably merit their attention when you have a history of problems involving the police.

I usually don't take up for cops - more bad than good ones out there from my experience - but am just tired of the Bengals' deflecting blame for their idiotic behavior in public.

Actually, they did. They admitted to it. And they staked out his home in hopes

of catching him driving with a suspended license.

[HairOnFire]

My point is that ANYONE driving around OTR suspiciously in such a vehicle (as I'm sure Henry was) would also most likely get pulled over for a minor offense just to see what they were up to in that area.

Yeah, but you're the same douchebag who once slammed Justin Smith for leaving PBS in a gigantic pickup truck. Frankly, you seem to have a problem with any Bengal player driving anywhere in any type of vehicle that you can't afford.

But let's ignore your feelings of inadequacy for a moment.

You've now twice defended profiling, a law enforcement practice that the Supreme Court has determined is against the law. So maybe, just maybe, the next time you climb atop a soapbox demanding that lawbreakers be brought to justice you'll find a way to do so without arguing in favor of other laws being broken.

Last point. I drive nice cars. In fact, I drive expensive cars. And I'm just nutty enough to assume that I have a right to drive in any public neighborhood that I want. So are you telling me that the price of the car I choose to drive, combined with the relative poverty level of the neighborhood I'm driving through, determines whether or not the police have reasonable and justifiable probable cause to pull me over?

[HoosierCat]

Nobody is demanding that Bengal players be given breaks that the average person doesn't get. Just treat 'em the same.

That's a nice sentiment, but you and I both know it'll never happen. We live in a culture of celebrity, and there are all too many people -- agents of law enforcement, politicians, the media -- for whom manipulating celebrities is a way to advance their agenda, career and/or bank account.

In fact, I would say that Henry coming to grips with the fact that, as a high-round, high-profile, highly compensated pro football player, he will never be treated the same as 99% of the rest of us, is the only way he stands a chance of surviving in the NFL.

That's why I think that while Marvin's point about Kenton Country "profiling" Bengals players is probably absolutely correct, it's also beside the point. Even if if the local cops back off, there are plenty more people out there looking to make their bones by burning a pro athlete or Hollywood actor or U.S. Senator or whoever. Like the old saying goes, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

My advice to Henry is that if he can't be responsible, being paranoid's probably the next best thing...because as long as you're a Bengal, they are out there, and they are out to get you.

[HairOnFire]

If he wants to call it racial profiling - fine - but to say "his players" are being picked on or profiled is just stupid. He has nothing to back up that statement other than Chris Henry...a guy he can hardly make excuses for.

He didn't call it racial profiling, but you wouldn't know that, would you? You're far too busy attacking the things that were said in an interview you didn't bother listening to, right?

Simply put, if I were you I wouldn't be so quick to call anyone stupid.

And for the record, it wasn't Marvin who admitted that the police were staking out Nicholson's house in the hopes that they could catch him driving on a suspended license. It was one of the rapidly backpedaling prosecutors. So I guess you don't have to take Marvin's word for the fact that profiling is being done, because the one's doing the profiling have actually admitted that they're doing it.

[HairOnFire]

The cops "staked out" his home (if they even did), because they had repeatedly been called there in the past for domestic problems. Little townships like that will probably merit their attention when you have a history of problems involving the police.

So the smaller a police force is, the more justification it has for engaing in a practice that has been ruled against the law?

Or if you prefer, the more meager assets a police force has at it's disposal...the wiser it becomes to stake out whatever high profile individual is most likely to break a minor traffic law?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm greatly enjoying Shula's defense of important laws being broken so that minor infractions don't go unpunished.

[HoTbOy]

I was glad that MLewis took the stand that he did...I don't live in Cincy, but I have heard alot in/on the news about your cops , and it's not good they say your cops are very racist, with that being said...I believe that the players must be doing something to attract attention to themeselves, because the cops don't usually bother you for nothing even if your are prejudice...The cops know the drug dealers from a hard working person...I have worked at Kodak for 17 years before I retired to go to Nursing school, I have had 2 Lexus GS 400 and currently drive an Impala SS 07, I have NEVER had any problem with the cops what so ever, And we have our share of profiling here...These player should be able to buy what they want with no problem, but if you are drinking, smoking pot while driving and you get arrested that's your fault and not because you are black...

[HairOnFire]

That's why I think that while Marvin's point about Kenton Country "profiling" Bengals players is probably absolutely correct, it's also beside the point.

How is it beside the point?

You've repeatedly blasted the Bengals for drafting players who may not be available to play in part because of people outside of the organization engaging in illegal law enforcement practices. So how is that irrelevant? How is the resulting media storm irrelevant? How is the damage done to the reputation of the franchise irrelevant? How is the new draft strategy forced upon the Bengals irrelevant? How is the potential loss of one of their best players irrelevant? Didn't many of you argue that all of the media related negativity had an impact on last seasons mediocre performance? Well, doesn't it stand to reason that if true a continuation of that negativity would have an impact on the coming season? And the ones that follow?

I don't get it.

Nobody is suggesting that the admission that Bengal players were profiled suddenly washes all of their sins away. But how can you agree that Bengal players are being unfairly profiled by local law enforcement and county authorities and then conclude that it's all beside the point?

[HoosierCat]

But how can you agree that Bengal players are being unfairly profiled by local law enforcement and county authorities and then conclude that it's all beside the point?

Let's see, what was my very next sentence...? Oh, yeah:

Even if if the local cops back off, there are plenty more people out there looking to make their bones by burning a pro athlete or Hollywood actor or U.S. Senator or whoever.

What about that don't you understand? Someone will always be "unfairly profiling" Henry, because in our culture there is prestige and money to be earned in tearing down celebrities. To focus on the cops misses the point. Again, even if they back off, Henry's not safe. Someone will always be watching. The only way to be sure they never get him is for him not to do things they can get him for.

[HairOnFire]

Like the old saying goes, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Wise words.

That said, in most cities a football team can conduct it's business without...

A - Having financial war waged upon it by local politicians

B - Having it's players unfairly profiled by local law enforcement & grandstanding local politicians

C - Constantly fighting battles against an inept local press and a smirking national media

D - Having to deal with a vast portion of it's own fanbase who refuse to acknowledge small market demands

By comparison, pimping is easy.

[HairOnFire]

What about that don't you understand? Someone will always be "unfairly profiling" Henry, because in our culture there is prestige and money to be earned in tearing down celebrities. To focus on the cops misses the point.

No, you're missing the point. When you're debating the issue of profiling you focus on who is doing it and what needs to be done to stop it. Because blaming the victim while ignoring those who who are treating him unfairly only adds to the crime.

[The PatternMaster]

My point is that ANYONE driving around OTR suspiciously in such a vehicle (as I'm sure Henry was) would also most likely get pulled over for a minor offense just to see what they were up to in that area.

Yeah, but you're the same douchebag who once slammed Justin Smith for leaving PBS in a gigantic pickup truck. Frankly, you seem to have a problem with any Bengal player driving anywhere in any type of vehicle that you can't afford.

But let's ignore your feelings of inadequacy for a moment.

You've now twice defended profiling, a law enforcement practice that the Supreme Court has determined is against the law. So maybe, just maybe, the next time you climb atop a soapbox demanding that lawbreakers be brought to justice you'll find a way to do so without arguing in favor of other laws being broken.

Last point. I drive nice cars. In fact, I drive expensive cars. And I'm just nutty enough to assume that I have a right to drive in any public neighborhood that I want. So are you telling me that the price of the car I choose to drive, combined with the relative poverty level of the neighborhood I'm driving through, determines whether or not the police have reasonable and justifiable probable cause to pull me over?

Stop making sense, just stop it..

Good post.

As for Marvin is concerned, does anyone think he wants out of Cincy right about know? The petty s**t he has to deal with is mind-boggling and has to be frustrating and stressful. Marvin has two kids of his own I'm sure he would like to spend more time with than he's able to because he has to deal with bulls**t like this.

I guess it's the gift and curse of fame, the good with bad.

[HoosierCat]

When you're debating the issue of profiling you focus on who is doing it and what needs to be done to stop it.

Nothing is going to stop it. Nothing. It's inherent in what Chris Henry has chosen to do. You cannot seperate celebrity and scrutiny. In fact, the former feeds off the latter, else there wouldn't be shows like Cribs or Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous. If it's not a Kenton County cop, it's a cop in some other jurisdiction. Or some politico looking to score "family values" points. Or a reporter. Or just some schlub chasing their 15 minutes of fame with a grainy cell phone video of Henry smoking a blunt in a strip club.

Chris Henry doesn't get to get treated like everyone else. He doesn't have that luxury. He signed that away when he signed his NFL contract and agreed to live his life in the spotlight. Getting picked on by the powers-that-be (and the powers-who-are-trying-to-be) comes with the territory. Henry's only chance is to give them no ammo.

[The PatternMaster]

When you're debating the issue of profiling you focus on who is doing it and what needs to be done to stop it.

Nothing is going to stop it. Nothing. It's inherent in what Chris Henry has chosen to do. You cannot seperate celebrity and scrutiny. In fact, the former feeds off the latter, else there wouldn't be shows like Cribs or Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous. If it's not a Kenton County cop, it's a cop in some other jurisdiction. Or some politico looking to score "family values" points. Or a reporter. Or just some schlub chasing their 15 minutes of fame with a grainy cell phone video of Henry smoking a blunt in a strip club.

Chris Henry doesn't get to get treated like everyone else. He doesn't have that luxury. He signed that away when he signed his NFL contract and agreed to live his life in the spotlight. Getting picked on by the powers-that-be (and the powers-who-are-trying-to-be) comes with the territory. Henry's only chance is to give them no ammo.

I have to disagree, there are plenty of high profile NFL players who don't have every aspect of their lives reported on the evening news. Our very own Carson Palmer is a former Heismann winner & #1 overall draft pick, but you don't see him getting pulled over for not using a signal on a right turn or for going 82 mph in 65 mph zone, both are minor infractions which I'm sure everyone of us has done. As a matter of fact I going on a road trip later today and I plan on speeding and maybe even changing lanes without signaling, cause I'm a gangsta like that.. Carson enjoys a lifestyle that all of know nothing about because the media doesn't focus on everything he does. I'm sure if police followed Carson as he went about his business for a month or two they could pull him over for a traffic violation of some sort, but they don't.

Yes, Henry put himself in the cross-hairs by committing stupid acts like pulling a gun on someone and he brought negative press to the Bengals when they did was give him an opportunity that 31 other teams didn't. Maybe that is why Easterling wants Henry gone, he's admitted he's a Bengals fan and he has proven himself to be a self-righteous hypocrite, so it wouldn't be beyond him to target someone who he has referred to as "wearing out his welcome"(we all know what really means) and try to bust him for whatever they can.

[HairOnFire]

Henry's only chance is to give them no ammo.

Uhhh, I hate to point this out but Chris Henry is drug tested several times a week, and has passed every test for 8 months in a row. So where do you suppose the prosecutor found the ammo that he fired in Henry's direction this weekend? He pulled it right out of his ass, right? Yet somehow we're knee deep in yet another media storm, and you've concluded that because Henry has been a knucklehead he no longer has the same rights as everyone else? And that's true because we live in a culture where celebrities are routinely built up and torn down for profit and entertainment, right?

Please. Some of the above may be true but we're not talking about the National Enquirer taking pot shots at an actress because of rumors that she's become fat or that she yelled at her housekeeper. We're talking about county prosecutors and the local police.

Look, let's take Henry out of the debate for a moment. Instead, let's look at an example of profiling that has actually played out to the bitter end. Example: The media continues to list Matthias Askew's arrest whenever it recaps the arrest record of the Bengal Nine, but not only was Askew cleared....he eventually won a lawsuit against the city. And he won because the police aren't allowed to beat the crap out of someone just because that person is big enough to beat the crap out of the police if he wanted to.

The big guy has rights, and so does the knucklehead.

[HoosierCat]

I have to disagree, there are plenty of high profile NFL players who don't have every aspect of their lives reported on the evening news.

Except when, like Henry, they screw up or are suspected of screwing up, right? Right. Comes with the territory. If you don't believe me, go to PFT's Turdwatch page and start clicking links.

[HoosierCat]

Uhhh, I hate to point this out but Chris Henry is drug tested several times a week, and has passed every test for 8 months in a row. So where do you suppose the prosecutor found the ammo that he fired in Henry's direction this weekend? He pulled it right out of his ass, right?

Yup, and ended up looking like a fool. In short, Henry did exactly what I said: provide no ammo. And as you pointed out, all the incident ended up doing was the previously impossible task of making Henry a sympathetic figure.

Yet somehow we're knee deep in yet another media storm, and you've concluded that because Henry has been a knucklehead he no longer has the same rights as everyone else? And that's true because we live in a culture where celebrities are routinely built up and torn down for profit and entertainment, right?

Where did I say anything about him having no rights? I said that viewing this incident as a problem with its roots in the local police force misses the point. Thre are plenty of people outside Kenton County who would be more than happy to enrich themselves at Chris Henry's expense. And yes, that's "because we live in a culture where celebrities are routinely built up and torn down for profit and entertainment."

Look, let's take Henry out of the debate for a moment. Instead, let's look at an example of profiling that has actually played out to the bitter end. Example: The media continues to list Matthias Askew's arrest whenever it recaps the arrest record of the Bengal Nine, but not only was Askew cleared....he eventually won a lawsuit against the city. And he won because the police aren't allowed to beat the crap out of someone just because that person is big enough to beat the crap out of the police if he wanted to.

The big guy has rights, and so does the knucklehead.

Again, I'm still looking for the place I said Henry (or Askew or any other football player, celebrity, politican, etc.) didn't have rights. Henry is free to sue the jokers in Kenton County. He may even win. But even if he does, that still won't turn off the spotlight he's under.

[HairOnFire]

.....Easterling wants Henry gone, he's admitted he's a Bengals fan and he has proven himself to be a self-righteous hypocrite, so it wouldn't be beyond him to target someone who he has referred to as "wearing out his welcome"(we all know what really means) and try to bust him for whatever they can.

Yeah, I think we do know what that means.

When a county prosecutor says that a person has worn out their welcome it means that the prosecutor is going to do everything in his power to make sure that person is gone, and when added to the other remarks made about Nicholson it seems clear that the vendetta includes anyone whose name is linked with the infamous Bengal Nine.

Or was it ten?

No matter, as one thing seems abundantly clear. That being, the Kenton County prosecutor is no smarter than Kid Steakhouse.

[Kazkal]

Took PFT awhile.

POSTED 3:24 p.m. EDT; UPDATED 4:16 p.m. EDT, May 24, 2007

MARVIN SAYS BENGALS ARE BEING PROFILED

Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said on Wednesday's Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio that Lewis believes police in the area are profiling his players.

"I think there's profiling, no question," Lewis said. "We're a small place -- our guys stand out, and they know that, and you've got to do things the right way. But when you are arrested for, or you are pulled over for, not putting on your turn signal, there's something wrong there."

Um, Marvin? The first time I got pulled over in my life it was because I had a tail light out. I also got pulled over once because I was driving slow, and the cop thought I was drunk. It happens to people of every race and profession. So please don't implicitly play the race card when many of the guys whom you're trying to protect already have proven, both before they joined your team and after, that they are turds.

Cops are always on the lookout for drunk drivers. And they should be. If a cop had pulled over Leonard Little, Susan Gutweiler might be alive today.

Marvin, how about taking some responsibility for your role in bringing to the "small place" where you live and work guys who might be inclined to commit crimes against the folks the police are hoping to protect? Frostee Rucker, A.J. Nicholson, Chris Henry, Odell Thurman. The list goes on and on.

Was Eric Steinbach being profiled when he was arrested for boating while drunk? Was Thurman being profiled when he was busted for DUI? Was Henry being profiled as he was puking out the window while Thurman was being arrested?

Please, Marvin. The local community already has enough reasons to rise up and demand that you be held accountable for the current state of the franchise. By trying to throw blame to those charged with keeping order, you might just spark the kind of outcry that puts you on a short leash with Mike Brown.

[HoosierCat]

Took PFT awhile.

POSTED 3:24 p.m. EDT; UPDATED 4:16 p.m. EDT, May 24, 2007

MARVIN SAYS BENGALS ARE BEING PROFILED

Perfect timing. Marvin now says the Bengals are not being profiled...

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6066