Bring in Donnie Henderson

[The PatternMaster]

Now that Hartwell is the fold, the draft has seen us fortify the secondary with good young talent, and the d-line retained 2 starters in Geathers and Smith but also added Mike Myers, I think it's time to add the final piece of this championship defense that Marvin is trying to build.

Everyone has their opinions regarding our coordinators, it's one of the most intriguing love/hate relationships save Sanjaya of American Idol fame. Marvin made his name as a defensive guru, he was the brains behind one of, if not the best, defensive units in the history of the NFL. How the Bengals have finished in the bottom third of the league in total defense every year since Marvin has been head coach is mind-boggling to say the least. One reason is that Marvin delegates responsibility and authority like a good HC is supposed to, he lets his coordinators do what they get paid to do. Things didn't work out so well with Frazier, but in the end Frazier went to Indy where he was able to find success, so all is well that ends well.

Now we have Chuck B who has had success in the NFL, he was the coordinator for the Raiders when they went to the Super Bowl vs. D-Jax Buc's, but not having much success here. Last year was a tough year to evaluate Chuck's performance because injuries and inconsistant play from alot key veterans, alot those are no longer here or won't be here come Opening Day. I'll say that Chuck has done a good job at times, there was a 4 game stretch that the defense played lights out, albeit was against some of the worst offenses in the NFL, but it's still the NFL if you get my point.

My main problem with Bresnahan is his precieved lack of ability to make adjustments when the scheme he came into the game with is clearly not working. Two games stand out the most to me that proves this point, the San Diego and Colts games were two games were it just seemed like we didn't even try to adjust to what the offense was doing and we died a painful slow death. Watching Peyton dink and dunk his way up and down the field with what seemed to be like the same couple of plays was hard to watch while watching Drew Brees & Co. come back from a 28 point lead to win a game that should have been over at halftime was disgusting.

I say we bring in former Jets and Lions DC Donnie Henderson in same capacity that Chuck was brought in a few years ago. Henderson knows Marvin well from their days together in Baltimore, where Henderson was a position coach, and he also one fiery S.O.B who will make sure that his players play with passion and toughness, a few things that have been missing from the defense since Marvin became HC. If you add a coach like Henderson to help with defense and combine that with the guys we gotten this offseason our defense will not only have an identity but it will be a force to be reckoned with.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'll take still-warm road kill over Chuck. Agree on all points regarding Chucky's inability to adapt in-game.

Sounds good.

[Sundance_Kid]

Not that I disagree...

But, with regards to the Colt game, I don't think the defense could be blamed...

It was our offenses inability to score touchdowns... and specifically, the momentum changing, lead making touchdown after our defense stopped the colts @ 4 and 1 near midfield...

[BZoner]

Firstly, a disclaimer.

I'm am not a Bresh fan, I have difficulty undersatnding why he still has his job, after the consistantly poor performances, year in, year out. Neither am I a football HC so I will leave that to Marv for the reasons already stated above.

But however poor the D is, and it assuredly is, the offense needs to take portion of the blame, as mentioned by Sundance in the Colts game.

The Bolts game was little better, what Brat was thinking when he decided to throw the ball the length of the field, one drive if memory serves was 8 seconds TD, followed by a 17 second drive TD.

Had Brat bothered to watch any tape that week perhaps he would have noted that LT is quite a threat and has even been known to score on occasion. Keeping him off the field once you are winning would seem pretty smart. You can't blame Bresh or the D if they are expected to stay on the field for the entire game.

That said the D had numerous screw ups all season and the record speaks for itself, but I think kicking them for those two games is just too "National Media" easy.

[The PatternMaster]

Firstly, a disclaimer.

I'm am not a Bresh fan, I have difficulty undersatnding why he still has his job, after the consistantly poor performances, year in, year out. Neither am I a football HC so I will leave that to Marv for the reasons already stated above.

But however poor the D is, and it assuredly is, the offense needs to take portion of the blame, as mentioned by Sundance in the Colts game.

The Bolts game was little better, what Brat was thinking when he decided to throw the ball the length of the field, one drive if memory serves was 8 seconds TD, followed by a 17 second drive TD.

Had Brat bothered to watch any tape that week perhaps he would have noted that LT is quite a threat and has even been known to score on occasion. Keeping him off the field once you are winning would seem pretty smart. You can't blame Bresh or the D if they are expected to stay on the field for the entire game.

That said the D had numerous screw ups all season and the record speaks for itself, but I think kicking them for those two games is just too "National Media" easy.

True, the offense didn't do the defense many favors last year. But my point is it seems that time after time Bres does a poor job at mid-game adjustments, and that is how you win the big games in the NFL. The coaches who can adjust their scheme are the ones who have success and Bres has shown that he either is incapable or doesn't like to make adjustments. There is something to be said for trusting your scheme, but you also have to realize when it's not working and come up with a Plan B.

Besides, there are two potential replacements for Brat already on the coaching squad in Zampese and Sheppard. We need a guy like that on defense, competition works the same for coaches as it does for players.

[hrod382]

Yeah Bresh isn't cutting it. I was begging for Jim Bates, that would've been a great add.

That Colts game summarizes everything. The players were doing their jobs, they just were put out of place.

It pained me everytime the LB's dropped back 10 yards only to have Manning dump one off to Addai.

[derekshank]

I'm not going to judge Bresh too harshly based on last season. Consider the following:

1) His starting MLB was suspended for the season.

2) His starting SSLB broke his neck.

3) his starting WSLB only started 8 games, and was completely out for 5

4) His starting Strong Safety missed 6 games due to injury.

5) His big DT FA acquisition was only able to play 10-15 snaps a game.

All of that to say, I've not been overly thrilled with Bresh either, but I think it's a bit premature to fire him unless a proven significant upgrade is available. The Bengals should be healthier and deeper this season. I'll be willing to judge him a bit harsher this year.

At this point, a new hire would be just for the sake of it. Also... the time to make a move like this would have been well before the draft so that a new D-Coordinator could be involved in the process.

[Oldcat]

If every defensive coordinator that Peyton Manning made look bad was fired, there'd be a lot of jobs open.

In your litany of utter failure, you name 2 games. What about the other 14?

Every year since 2003 the Defense has suffered injuries that have disturbed continuity and defeated Marvin's attempts to improve the situation. Even in 2005. Perhaps instead of firing all the coaches and releasing all the players we should hope for a little good luck for a change.

[Stripes]

If Donnie Henderson was a bad fit in Detroit, I'm not sure he'd be any better here. We don't run a cover two, but it's close.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Not that I disagree...

But, with regards to the Colt game, I don't think the defense could be blamed...

It was our offenses inability to score touchdowns... and specifically, the momentum changing, lead making touchdown after our defense stopped the colts @ 4 and 1 near midfield...

One can always blame the offense for not scoring enough to overcome a putrid defense, but no offense scores a touchdown every drive. Also remember that Indy's offense was sputtering in the weeks before they played us - even Houston held them in the teens, if I recall. But we certainly helped them get back on track.

The thing that was clear in the game was that what we were doing to stop Manning wasn't working. At all. And Chuck refused to change schemes, because he thought they were working. Which makes me conclude that he's either blind or stupid. Could be both.

As 'shank says, you can't blame Chuck for the team getting killed by injuries. So I don't blame him for the LBs getting run over, and I don't blame him for the slow DBs getting torched. But I definitely blame him for teams' ability to nickel and dime all over us, which is due to the fact that 1) Even Kordell could read Chuck's defensees, and 2) the pass rush schemes are so simple they're picked up immediately.

But at this point, we have what promises to be a surprisingly good secondary, a passable D-line, and an LB corps that might hold together with the duct tape the team has applied. If it does, this is Chuck's defense, live or die by it.

[The PatternMaster]

Let me re-state what I was saying earlier, I'm not saying we fire Bres, I'm just saying I think it would be a good idea to add Henderson to the staff as a defensive coach, similar to the way Bres was brought in when Frazier was still the DC. Yes it would cause Bres to look over his shoulder and it might even undermine his authority with some of the players, but he should be able to handle that.

Last year was too up and down, they play good one game and they can't stop anyone the next.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Last year was too up and down, they play good one game and they can't stop anyone the next.

IMHO that started occurring long before last season. It's been an ongoing problem for at least a few years.

[hrod382]

I will give him credit, any struggles in the run D is a result of the players... Not Bresh. I loved the improvement by the DT's in the run D. The only time there were struggles were due to the LB core which as mentioned was destroyed. The pass rush as well wasn't really completely to his fault.

Last year he tried sending Ahmad when he first started on plenty of blitzes but he was getting gobbled up by blockers and couldn't get off. We really didn't have the players out there on 3rd down (Jeanty/Landon/Simmons/Caleb) to generate a solid pass rush and it's hard to send a saftey with Tory James "covering" someone.

Still, there were plenty of situations that you could tell the reason we were getting gashed was the scheme, not the players. There wasn't much for missed tackles in the Indy game and it looked like everyone was in the right place... It just wasn't a good scheme.

[Stripes]

Still, there were plenty of situations that you could tell the reason we were getting gashed was the scheme, not the players. There wasn't much for missed tackles in the Indy game and it looked like everyone was in the right place... It just wasn't a good scheme.

I think the chief problem in the Indy game was the lack of a pass rush. The scheme can and has worked against good offenses, but without pressuring the quarterback, it is a lost cause. One could argue that employing such a tactic is a plan doomed to fail against a team like the Colts, and I'd find it hard to disagree there. When we play them next, I expect to see more of the same... maybe if our guys can get in Peyton's face more consistently, the defense won't look like it's just standing around waiting to make a tackle after a ten yard pass.

Furthermore, Joe Theismann was the first talking head to question Bresnahan's scheme during the game. I can't be confident in my opinion if I know I share it with him.

[HairOnFire]

I will give him credit, any struggles in the run D is a result of the players... Not Bresh. I loved the improvement by the DT's in the run D. The only time there were struggles were due to the LB core which as mentioned was destroyed. The pass rush as well wasn't really completely to his fault.

The Colt game left a lasting negative impression, but the Bengals used their much despised "Mush Rush" in plenty of games last season and against all types of QB's. For example, I doubt you could name two QB's with skill sets more different than pure pocket passer Peyton Manning and pure rabbit Mike Vick, but the Bengals mushed them both and paid dearly for it.

Put me in the camp that thinks much of this was due to the inexperienced LB's who were forced into action, and for proof I offer the season opener against the Chiefs. Granted, David Pollack didn't play in that game but the Bengals scheme that day could be described as hyper-aggressive, and that aggressiveness largely went away with each mounting injury. The following week they lost their designated pass rusher for the season, then Jeanty's effectiveness was slowed by a nagging foot injury, and finally they lost their most experienced veteran to a neck stinger that took twice as long to heal as expected. The replacements were either horribly inexperienced (Brooks) or better suited for pass coverage (Miller). Complicating matters further, the only remaining LB who looked to be a real force as a blitzer, Ahmad Brooks, eventually lost playing time due to his shortcomings in pass coverage.

Frankly, none of the above lends itself very well to a jailbreak pass rush from the front four or to wild blitzing from the back seven. Thus, I think the Bengals settled into a steady diet of mush rushing in the hopes that it would result in a better performace against the run and fewer big plays given up overall. The downside was giving up a staggering amount of uncontested plays surrendered underneath and a dramatic decline in forced turnovers.

Turning to this season there is some reason to believe that things will improve, perhaps dramatically, if the new group can stay healthy. It's actually a fairly respectable group on paper, right? But I fear there is plenty of cause for nagging doubts as none of the players have much of a history of playing together, and without the pure talent of a David Pollack or Odell Thurman I fear it won't take much of a test before the Bengals fall back into their mush rushing habits.

[HoTbOy]

I am not a big fan of CBreshnahan either, but I don't know if our problems were from scheme or injuries...But this I do agree with, he does not make adequate adjustments during the game or at halftime...