Bengals Tipping Their Hand?

[Section 310]

It seems there has been a flurry of activity at the bargain-basement free agent trough over the last couple of days. Cincinnati is primarily interested in DT and LB.

I personally believe these visits suggest that: 1) they plan to stay at 18 and grab the best available CB or Safety; 2) they assume Branch and/or Willis will not fall to #18; and 3) by adding depth at DT or LB before the draft, they will be in a position to take an Olsen, Ginn, Gonzalez, etc. should they slide to the 2nd round. Absent a move before the draft, there is no way the team could feel comfortable taking offense in round 2. You have too many glaring needs at LB and in the secondary. However, by signing a journeyman or two, you have the OPTION to be creative with your draft.

[Kirkendall]

Dead on.

[The PatternMaster]

It seems there has been a flurry of activity at the bargain-basement free agent trough over the last couple of days. Cincinnati is primarily interested in DT and LB.

I personally believe these visits suggest that: 1) they plan to stay at 18 and grab the best available CB or Safety; 2) they assume Branch and/or Willis will not fall to #18; and 3) by adding depth at DT or LB before the draft, they will be in a position to take an Olsen, Ginn, Gonzalez, etc. should they slide to the 2nd round. Absent a move before the draft, there is no way the team could feel comfortable taking offense in round 2. You have too many glaring needs at LB and in the secondary. However, by signing a journeyman or two, you have the OPTION to be creative with your draft.

I was watching the top 10 best draft classes on NFLN last night and they had Ravens draft class of 1996, the year they got J.Odgen and Ray Lewis. There was interesting quote from Ozzie Newsome ,who was a first time GM in charge of his very first draft, (I'd say he did a decent job ) in which he said that he always believed in drafting the BPA available, especially in the early rounds. At the time the Ravens o-line wasn't considered to be a area of need, but they took Ogden 4th overall and he's going to walk into the HOF.

My point is drafting for need rarely works, as it forces to you take a guy who might not be good enough to fill the void you have on your team and it forces you to make an extended commitment to this guy or waste a draft pick. When you draft the BPA you know your getting a guy who can play and it raises the level of competition for whatever position you draft.

[Section 310]

When you draft the BPA you know your getting a guy who can play and it raises the level of competition for whatever position you draft.

Imagine the angst in Bengaldom if Adriam Peterson somehow slid to 18 and the Bengals were on the clock. Do you take an RB with the potential to be a star, or do you add to an area of need by selecting the 3rd or 4th best CB on the Board?

Speaking of RB, I would love to see Cincinnati somehow end up with Michael Bush in the 3rd or 4th Round. He has Bettis written all over him.

[JoePong]

Hell yeah you take Adrian Peterson. You take the best player, I don't care if its offense or defense. Teams that draft for some supposed "need" just end up with a bunch of mediocre talent. Besides, we need good young WRs. Chad and TJ are both approaching 30 and with Henry's questionable future , we don't have any young WRs waiting in the wings to take over as starters.

[Stripes]

Hell yeah you take Adrian Peterson. You take the best player, I don't care if its offense or defense. Teams that draft for some supposed "need" just end up with a bunch of mediocre talent. Besides, we need good young WRs. Chad and TJ are both approaching 30 and with Henry's questionable future , we don't have any young WRs waiting in the wings to take over as starters.

I'd agree in most circumstances, but what if the best player is Brady Quinn?

[bengalskyspy]

Hell yeah you take Adrian Peterson. You take the best player, I don't care if its offense or defense. Teams that draft for some supposed "need" just end up with a bunch of mediocre talent. Besides, we need good young WRs. Chad and TJ are both approaching 30 and with Henry's questionable future , we don't have any young WRs waiting in the wings to take over as starters.

I'd agree in most circumstances, but what if the best player is Brady Quinn?

I guess you would take him with the idea that you could trade for something you need.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

It seems there has been a flurry of activity at the bargain-basement free agent trough over the last couple of days. Cincinnati is primarily interested in DT and LB.

I personally believe these visits suggest that: 1) they plan to stay at 18 and grab the best available CB or Safety; 2) they assume Branch and/or Willis will not fall to #18; and 3) by adding depth at DT or LB before the draft, they will be in a position to take an Olsen, Ginn, Gonzalez, etc. should they slide to the 2nd round. Absent a move before the draft, there is no way the team could feel comfortable taking offense in round 2. You have too many glaring needs at LB and in the secondary. However, by signing a journeyman or two, you have the OPTION to be creative with your draft.

I was watching the top 10 best draft classes on NFLN last night and they had Ravens draft class of 1996, the year they got J.Odgen and Ray Lewis. There was interesting quote from Ozzie Newson ,who was a first time GM in charge of his very first draft, (I'd say he did a decent job ) in which he said that he always believed in drafting the BPA available, especially in the early rounds. At the time the Ravens o-line wasn't considered to be a area of need, but they took Ogden 4th overall and he's going to walk into the HOF.

My point is drafting for need rarely works, as it forces to you take a guy who might not be good enough to fill the void you have on your team and it forces you to make an extended commitment to this guy or waste a draft pick. When you draft the BPA you know your getting a guy who can play and it raises the level of competition for whatever position you draft.

I agree, and would never fault a team for taking a can't-miss o-lineman in the first round ecspecially. Why take chances when you can secure value and top tier talent in the 1st round year after year?

The Bengals' have to draft for need (and have more fall out as a result) because they haven't used FA like other teams, leaving them with little flexibility in the 1st round every year.

I do give Marvin some props for at least trying to change that idiotic approach to roster management.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I think you can take either BPA or drafting need to the extreme. If there are two roughly equal players, draft the one you need more. But never limit yourself to a single target position of need. In the Bengals case, they need to go defense in rounds 1 and 2, period. But defense is fairly general. Obviously they shouldn't reach by half a round for a CB if they're all gone.

That said, things we completely don't need (in round 1) include QB and WR. There's always room for Oline depth if there's a stud sitting there, and I wouldn't say no to a RB if he complemented Rudi well. As far as the Ravens example goes, taking a LT high always makes sense because they have a huge impact and probably pan out more than any other position.

The BPA thing makes a lot more sense in the first 10 picks or so where the jump between player abilities can be substantial. When you get much below that, the differences are small enough that it makes sense to draft a player at a position that you can actually use, as long as you're not reaching far.

[jjakq27]

My point is drafting for need rarely works, as it forces to you take a guy who might not be good enough to fill the void you have on your team and it forces you to make an extended commitment to this guy or waste a draft pick. When you draft the BPA you know your getting a guy who can play and it raises the level of competition for whatever position you draft.

Akili Smith...**cough**cough**

[jjakq27]

Hell yeah you take Adrian Peterson. You take the best player, I don't care if its offense or defense. Teams that draft for some supposed "need" just end up with a bunch of mediocre talent. Besides, we need good young WRs. Chad and TJ are both approaching 30 and with Henry's questionable future , we don't have any young WRs waiting in the wings to take over as starters.

I'd agree in most circumstances, but what if the best player is Brady Quinn?

I guess you would take him with the idea that you could trade for something you need.

Back in 1989, the Cowboys took Troy Aikman with the first overall pick. Then they selected QB Steve Walsh with a pick in the supplemental draft. That cost them the first round pick in the 1990 draft but they later traded him to NO for three draft choices. So they got something out of him in the end.

Unfortunately we have missed bigtime in that regard. Trying to force fit guys into a position of need. Big Daddy instead of Marshall Faulk, KiJana instead of Tony Boselli, Akili instead of Tory Holt, Edgerrin James or Champ Bailey. Or worse yet, tweeners that don't fit any position or trying to teach guys new positions. Reinhard Wilson and Ricky Dixon come to mind. I think Pollack was on the rise but eventually would have moved back to end.

I think that is why the Ravens have had good defenses for a long time even though guys have moved on and cycled through their organization. They keep taking the best player whether they need them or not. They probably could have taken somebody other than Ed Reed in 2002 but he was probably the best player at that point. Same thing with Terrell Suggs when he got drafted in 2003.

It's kinda like Detroit this year. If Calvin Johnson is there, do they take him even though they have had bad luck with WRs in the draft recently? I'd say if he is that good then they should probably take him. Unless there is an equally good, "can't miss" guy available at a different position of need.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't no matter which way you go.

[The PatternMaster]

Hell yeah you take Adrian Peterson. You take the best player, I don't care if its offense or defense. Teams that draft for some supposed "need" just end up with a bunch of mediocre talent. Besides, we need good young WRs. Chad and TJ are both approaching 30 and with Henry's questionable future , we don't have any young WRs waiting in the wings to take over as starters.

I'd agree in most circumstances, but what if the best player is Brady Quinn?

I guess you would take him with the idea that you could trade for something you need.

Back in 1989, the Cowboys took Troy Aikman with the first overall pick. Then they selected QB Steve Walsh with a pick in the supplemental draft. That cost them the first round pick in the 1990 draft but they later traded him to NO for three draft choices. So they got something out of him in the end.

Unfortunately we have missed bigtime in that regard. Trying to force fit guys into a position of need. Big Daddy instead of Marshall Faulk, KiJana instead of Tony Boselli, Akili instead of Tory Holt, Edgerrin James or Champ Bailey. Or worse yet, tweeners that don't fit any position or trying to teach guys new positions. Reinhard Wilson and Ricky Dixon come to mind. I think Pollack was on the rise but eventually would have moved back to end.

I think that is why the Ravens have had good defenses for a long time even though guys have moved on and cycled through their organization. They keep taking the best player whether they need them or not. They probably could have taken somebody other than Ed Reed in 2002 but he was probably the best player at that point. Same thing with Terrell Suggs when he got drafted in 2003.

It's kinda like Detroit this year. If Calvin Johnson is there, do they take him even though they have had bad luck with WRs in the draft recently? I'd say if he is that good then they should probably take him. Unless there is an equally good, "can't miss" guy available at a different position of need.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't no matter which way you go.

I believe this will be Millen's most challenging draft yet, he's been burned by qb and wr position in years past and this year they are in a position were they can get either a very good at each position. Millen doesn't seem like the type to operate out of fear so I don't think he will be scared away from either position, but I could see the Lions trading down a few spots with the Bucs maybe and getting Gaines Adams. You have to remember Marinelli made his name as a DL coach in Tampa Bay and Adams could be a Simoen Rice type of player who could help make the defense better.

Mike Williams is still on the roster, they re-sign safety turned wr Mike Furrey who had a break out season with 98 recs in Martz pass happy offense and they have a good wr in Roy Williams. They also have a young qb in Dan Orlozsky who if handled correctly could replace Kitna. If were Millen I would trade down, get a defense player like Adams in the first and get O-line help in the later rounds, because if they can't block up then no skill position player can help them improve. Fortifying the offensive and defensive lines are quickest way to turn a team around, imo.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I believe this will be Millen's most challenging draft yet, he's been burned by qb and wr position in years past and this year they are in a position were they can get either a very good at each position. Millen doesn't seem like the type to operate out of fear so I don't think he will be scared away from either position, but I could see the Lions trading down a few spots with the Bucs maybe and getting Gaines Adams. You have to remember Marinelli made his name as a DL coach in Tampa Bay and Adams could be a Simoen Rice type of player who could help make the defense better.

Mike Williams is still on the roster, they re-sign safety turned wr Mike Furrey who had a break out season with 98 recs in Martz pass happy offense and they have a good wr in Roy Williams. They also have a young qb in Dan Orlozsky who if handled correctly could replace Kitna. If were Millen I would trade down, get a defense player like Adams in the first and get O-line help in the later rounds, because if they can't block up then no skill position player can help them improve. Fortifying the offensive and defensive lines are quickest way to turn a team around, imo.

Millen will get ripped no matter what he does. If he takes Johnson, he'll eat it for taking 3 WR in what, 5 years? If he doesn't, people will say he didn't have the balls to do it. There is suposedly an inordinate amount of teams looking to trade, so that might be his best bet, especially since there's no clear cut #1 in this draft. Russell is unproven, Quinn doesn't have a good big-game record, WRs (Johnson) don't go #1 generally. You've also got guys like Joe Thomas back there.

I'd be perfectly happy to trade back a couple of spots and pick up some good picks.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

I believe this will be Millen's most challenging draft yet, he's been burned by qb and wr position in years past and this year they are in a position were they can get either a very good at each position. Millen doesn't seem like the type to operate out of fear so I don't think he will be scared away from either position, but I could see the Lions trading down a few spots with the Bucs maybe and getting Gaines Adams. You have to remember Marinelli made his name as a DL coach in Tampa Bay and Adams could be a Simoen Rice type of player who could help make the defense better.

Mike Williams is still on the roster, they re-sign safety turned wr Mike Furrey who had a break out season with 98 recs in Martz pass happy offense and they have a good wr in Roy Williams. They also have a young qb in Dan Orlozsky who if handled correctly could replace Kitna. If were Millen I would trade down, get a defense player like Adams in the first and get O-line help in the later rounds, because if they can't block up then no skill position player can help them improve. Fortifying the offensive and defensive lines are quickest way to turn a team around, imo.

Millen will get ripped no matter what he does. If he takes Johnson, he'll eat it for taking 3 WR in what, 5 years? If he doesn't, people will say he didn't have the balls to do it. There is suposedly an inordinate amount of teams looking to trade, so that might be his best bet, especially since there's no clear cut #1 in this draft. Russell is unproven, Quinn doesn't have a good big-game record, WRs (Johnson) don't go #1 generally. You've also got guys like Joe Thomas back there.

I'd be perfectly happy to trade back a couple of spots and pick up some good picks.

4 in 5 years i think... charles rogers, roy williams, mike williams ... and if they take johnson

[The PatternMaster]

I believe this will be Millen's most challenging draft yet, he's been burned by qb and wr position in years past and this year they are in a position were they can get either a very good at each position. Millen doesn't seem like the type to operate out of fear so I don't think he will be scared away from either position, but I could see the Lions trading down a few spots with the Bucs maybe and getting Gaines Adams. You have to remember Marinelli made his name as a DL coach in Tampa Bay and Adams could be a Simoen Rice type of player who could help make the defense better.

Mike Williams is still on the roster, they re-sign safety turned wr Mike Furrey who had a break out season with 98 recs in Martz pass happy offense and they have a good wr in Roy Williams. They also have a young qb in Dan Orlozsky who if handled correctly could replace Kitna. If were Millen I would trade down, get a defense player like Adams in the first and get O-line help in the later rounds, because if they can't block up then no skill position player can help them improve. Fortifying the offensive and defensive lines are quickest way to turn a team around, imo.

Millen will get ripped no matter what he does. If he takes Johnson, he'll eat it for taking 3 WR in what, 5 years? If he doesn't, people will say he didn't have the balls to do it. There is suposedly an inordinate amount of teams looking to trade, so that might be his best bet, especially since there's no clear cut #1 in this draft. Russell is unproven, Quinn doesn't have a good big-game record, WRs (Johnson) don't go #1 generally. You've also got guys like Joe Thomas back there.

I'd be perfectly happy to trade back a couple of spots and pick up some good picks.

true indeed, trading down and getting the most picks possible would be the best for this team because Detriot could use talent infusions at many different areas.

[Tasher]

My point is drafting for need rarely works, as it forces to you take a guy who might not be good enough to fill the void you have on your team and it forces you to make an extended commitment to this guy or waste a draft pick. When you draft the BPA you know your getting a guy who can play and it raises the level of competition for whatever position you draft.

Akili Smith...**cough**cough**

Yeah Akili Smith, what did NO offer up for that pick? How many draft choices? However, had we done that, we would not now have Carson Palmer.

[chrishcovga]

When you draft the BPA you know your getting a guy who can play and it raises the level of competition for whatever position you draft.

Imagine the angst in Bengaldom if Adriam Peterson somehow slid to 18 and the Bengals were on the clock. Do you take an RB with the potential to be a star, or do you add to an area of need by selecting the 3rd or 4th best CB on the Board?

Speaking of RB, I would love to see Cincinnati somehow end up with Michael Bush in the 3rd or 4th Round. He has Bettis written all over him.

- WOW, what a great post...... IF only the Bengals had you in the Front office and the WAR - ROOM when they were on the clock in the '04 draft.

- I seem to remember the Bengals being on the clock when the # 24 pick came up, and some GENIUS said " Let's skip Stephen Jackson - THE NUMBER ONE OVERALL RUNNINGBACK IN THE DRAFT - and move down a couple of spots to take the # 3 rated running back ????"

If Adrian Peterson slid to the Bengals at # 18, they would not take him and you all know it !!!

[Kazkal]

When you draft the BPA you know your getting a guy who can play and it raises the level of competition for whatever position you draft.

Imagine the angst in Bengaldom if Adriam Peterson somehow slid to 18 and the Bengals were on the clock. Do you take an RB with the potential to be a star, or do you add to an area of need by selecting the 3rd or 4th best CB on the Board?

Speaking of RB, I would love to see Cincinnati somehow end up with Michael Bush in the 3rd or 4th Round. He has Bettis written all over him.

you question why 17 teams passed on him but I woulden't mind AP at all.

Millen will get ripped no matter what he does. If he takes Johnson, he'll eat it for taking 3 WR in what, 5 years?

4 no? or 4 in 6 years.

My point is drafting for need rarely works, as it forces to you take a guy who might not be good enough to fill the void you have on your team and it forces you to make an extended commitment to this guy or waste a draft pick. When you draft the BPA you know your getting a guy who can play and it raises the level of competition for whatever position you draft.

Akili Smith...**cough**cough**

Yeah Akili Smith, what did NO offer up for that pick? How many draft choices? However, had we done that, we would not now have Carson Palmer.

yup,we gotta give a for akili.I'd take akili to get carson anyday of the week.

[Section 310]

When you draft the BPA you know your getting a guy who can play and it raises the level of competition for whatever position you draft.

Imagine the angst in Bengaldom if Adriam Peterson somehow slid to 18 and the Bengals were on the clock. Do you take an RB with the potential to be a star, or do you add to an area of need by selecting the 3rd or 4th best CB on the Board?

Speaking of RB, I would love to see Cincinnati somehow end up with Michael Bush in the 3rd or 4th Round. He has Bettis written all over him.

- WOW, what a great post...... IF only the Bengals had you in the Front office and the WAR - ROOM when they were on the clock in the '04 draft.

- I seem to remember the Bengals being on the clock when the # 24 pick came up, and some GENIUS said " Let's skip Stephen Jackson - THE NUMBER ONE OVERALL RUNNINGBACK IN THE DRAFT - and move down a couple of spots to take the # 3 rated running back ????"

If Adrian Peterson slid to the Bengals at # 18, they would not take him and you all know it !!!

I keep hoping that Perry will shake the injury bug and become a productive back...but year after year of fluke injuries make a person wonder if the guy will ever do anything in the NFL.

[bengalsfansince68]

I seem to remember the Bengals being on the clock when the # 24 pick came up, and some GENIUS said " Let's skip Stephen Jackson - THE NUMBER ONE OVERALL RUNNINGBACK IN THE DRAFT - and move down a couple of spots to take the # 3 rated running back ????"

I, for one, completely understand the logic behind dropping back 2 spots to take Perry instead of Jackson.

If you take Jackson at 24, you would pretty much be doing so to replace Rudi. I love Stephen Jackson, in fact I have him targeted for my fantasy draft, he is a fine player. Eventually though you would have to find a way to move Rudi because they fill the same role.

Taking Perry was a a great move, if he had not been snake-bit by injuries. He provides (if healthy) a dimension to our team that we don't have without him. He could have been a huge weapon for Carson. In the brief time that he did play, he was well on his way to breaking the team record for receptions by a RB. His injuries are unfortunate but his skills are electric and there is no way to guage which players will be injury prone.

If you take Jackson at that spot, you wind up with Jackson, a great player, and whatever you might be able to get for Rudi.

Trading down to get Perry, you wind up with Rudi, Perry, the perfect compliment to Rudi, and depth for the O-line in Stacey Andrews.

To me, it was a perfect way to strengthen an already potent offense and if Perry had been able to play up to his capabilities, this conversation would be unnecesasary and moot.

In my mind it was a great draft day move that was marred by Perry's injuries, but going into that draft player injury was not a factor because it could have easily been Jackson with the injury baggage that Perry carries.

Despit all the bitching, I applaud ML for making that move!

[Stripes]

Taking Perry was a a great move, if he had not been snake-bit by injuries.

I wouldn't necessarily call it a "great" move, but for the most part, I agree. Perry didn't struggle with injuries at Michigan, so there's no way the Bengals or anyone else could have seen that coming. When he has been on the field, he has contributed a lot. Some may feel a third down/backup back isn't a first round need, and I'd agree with that too. Still, he has filled that role to perfection when he has been able.

I don't blame the Bengals for Perry's injury problems.

[bengal4life]

We also drafted Perry not knowing if we were going to resign Rudi or not. If he wasn't struck with the injury bug, he probably would have been our starter.

[Stripes]

We also drafted Perry not knowing if we were going to resign Rudi or not.

Yup. Also a valid point.

If he wasn't struck with the injury bug, he probably would have been our starter.

Don't agree there though.

[bengalsfansince68]

Taking Perry was a a great move, if he had not been snake-bit by injuries.

I wouldn't necessarily call it a "great" move, but for the most part, I agree.

In my opinion, had that move reached its full potential, it would have been a "great" move, and Perry still could reach his potential if he gets healthy!

Granted, I am the voice of optimism wherever I go.

[HairOnFire]

Some may feel a third down/backup back isn't a first round need, and I'd agree with that too.

There it is. Even when healthy Perry's role doesn't get him on the field for more than 12-15 plays a game, and he's featured on those plays maybe half the time. That's simply not enough impact to justify a 1st round pick.

As for the argument that the Bengals didn't know if they were going to sign Rudi? Well, if that's the case then it can be said that they bought themseves some very expensive insurance that in regards to the starting RB position wasn't really needed. The Bengals had let it be known years earlier that if RJ reached free agency they were very likely going to use a restrictive tag that would all but eliminate interest from other teams. And that's exactly what happened.