Marvin says we will have a better defense in '07...

[rbsohio30]

How quickly people forget the injuries of 2006. Apparently youth is irrelevant too. Hair already mentioned all the defensive changes/improvements I had in mind, so I won't bother to re-hash them.

EndTheDrought mentioned the injuries and the improvement that could result just from better heatlth. Frankly, for anyone paying close attention there are plenty of reasons to believe the defense will improve this season, and most don't involve luck....though it's always welcome.

For other fans, the crippling loss of Brian Simmons and K2 is apparently too much for any team to overcome.

I am sorry to post off topic however I cant stop looking at your avatar and wishing that american flag was not there

[Stripes]

(annually predicted to be the driver of an improvement that never happens).

But it has happened, slowly but surely.

When Marvin arrived in 2003, the defense was consistently bad. Very rarely were they able to put together full games in which any of us could confidently say, "The defense won this one for us." As the seasons have passed, we've seen that gradually change for the better. It has taken a long time to improve a small amount, no doubt, but setbacks can't be ignored.

As has been stated, the defense has improved in scoring every year now under Marvin. One might call that an incident of chance on an otherwise horrible unit. One might also call that the result of the defense improving from consistently bad to just inconsistent. Multiple games in 2006 did the defense step up and bail the offense out of a poor outing for a win. A few times they did collapse, like against San Diego and New England, bloating their yardage totals into a misleading number. Without our 30th ranked-in-yardage defense last year, we don't beat Carolina, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or maybe New Orleans.

Now, going into 2007, we field the same starters as before minus an old fart in Brian Simmons. Kaesviharn was a tough loss for depth, but Dexter Jackson is the starter. If the defense can do a better job staying healthy this season than they did last (and probability is on our side there given how many injuries we suffered in '06), then the gradual improvement should continue.

If anyone out there demands that the Bengals field a top ten defense in 2007 (by whatever means, be it free agents or draft picks) to be satisfied, then their expectations are not grounded in reality.

[HairOnFire]

It's precisely yards allowed that were this team's problem last season. They couldnt get off the field. Opposing offenses routinely controlled the clock with long drives, minimizing the number of posessions by the Bengals offense. Not allowing a lot of points is only helpful if your offense actually gets a chance to score a few of its own.

Bull.

To claim that points allowed isn't the most important measure of any defense is laughable, and that's especially true of defenses that are deliberatly designed to bend but not break. Those types of schemes may not sit well with everyone, but the Bengals aren't the first team built around that mindset. In addition, Marvin Lewis has admitted that the Bengals routinely give up short yardage plays in the hopes that teams will fail to sustain long drives due to their own mistakes or from forced turnovers.....which they have a history of producing in great numbers.

Last, the Bengals offense was it's own worst enemy last season, and it cost itself drive after drive due to prolonged failures when attempting to convert on 3rd down. Look it up...or keep blaming the Bengal defense even when it isn't on the field.

A few times they did collapse, like against San Diego and New England, bloating their yardage totals into a misleading number. Without our 30th ranked-in-yardage defense last year, we don't beat Carolina, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or maybe New Orleans.

Let's not forget that the Bengal defense held Kansas City and Oakland to a mere 10 points each in two wins, and shut out Cleveland later in the year. They also played well enough to win against Tampa Bay and wouldn't have been in a position where an official could take the win away if the Bengal offense hadn't misfired all game long.

[HoosierCat]

As the seasons have passed, we've seen that gradually change for the better. It has taken a long time to improve a small amount, no doubt, but setbacks can't be ignored.

Though I'm sure that isn't what you meant to say, that's my point. Setbacks can't be ignored, and this offseason looks to be one on defense. Unable to hang onto players it wanted to keep, unable to replace losses due to a lack of cap space, the team has been forced back on its old strategy of wishing-hoping-praying that draft picks, scrap off the injury heap, and backups and special teamers can step up. Some will and some won't -- and even the ones who do will likely give up a big play for every big play they make. There's a reason teams usually try to work young guys in slowly, because the benefits of injecting youth are largest in the long term, while the risks are largest in the short-term.

As for the defense's improvement during Marvins tenure, you are right that anyone expecting a top 10 D this season is nuts. At the rate we are going we might get there in about five years.

It's precisely yards allowed that were this team's problem last season. They couldnt get off the field. Opposing offenses routinely controlled the clock with long drives, minimizing the number of posessions by the Bengals offense. Not allowing a lot of points is only helpful if your offense actually gets a chance to score a few of its own.

Bull.

Whatever.

[Bobcat Bengal]

I mean, of course the defense could use improvement, but I mean, we were on the verge of posting back-to-back shutouts, over division rivals no less.

c'mon now...

[HairOnFire]

Whatever.

Well played. Even you most have realized how silly you sounded when you claimed that preventing scoring is less important than surrendering yardage. Or even sillier, that the Bengal defense was to blame for offensive failures. Thus, a one word response.

[HoosierCat]

Whatever.

Well played. Even you most have realized how silly you sounded when you claimed that preventing scoring is less important than surrendering yardage. Or even sillier, that the Bengal defense was to blame for offensive failures. Thus, a one word response.

I provided a one-word response because you provided nothing to argue with. I looked at both defensive scoring and yardage numbers a long time ago to see if there was any correlation between one and the other and a team's won/loss record. There isn't. I use the yards measurement because, as I said, that's where the team is desperate to get better -- and the track record of the "throw some kids against the problem" strategy is fairly poor.

[BengalByTheBay]

There isn't. I use the yards measurement because, as I said, that's where the team is desperate to get better -- and the track record of the "throw some kids against the problem" strategy is fairly poor.

This from the guy with Ethan Kilmer as his avatar.

[derekshank]

Alright... Hair and Hoosier - You guys desperatey need something to agree on. So:

Kimo Von Oelhoffen and Ben Roethlisberger are the human representations of evil incarnate. Discuss.

[HoosierCat]

There isn't. I use the yards measurement because, as I said, that's where the team is desperate to get better -- and the track record of the "throw some kids against the problem" strategy is fairly poor.

This from the guy with Ethan Kilmer as his avatar.

I keep him there to remind me exactly what we're relying on this year.

derek: yeah, Kimo and Toothlessburger still suck!

[HairOnFire]

I provided a one-word response because you provided nothing to argue with.

I accept your surrender.

Lay down your harmless and empty weapons and return to your unplowed fields without hesitation. Tend to your hungry goats and unclothed children without fear of further punishment. That said, it wouldn't be a bad idea if you painted your home and barn blood red in lasting tribute to me.

I'm just saying...

[Stripes]

Though I'm sure that isn't what you meant to say, that's my point. Setbacks can't be ignored, and this offseason looks to be one on defense. Unable to hang onto players it wanted to keep, unable to replace losses due to a lack of cap space, the team has been forced back on its old strategy of wishing-hoping-praying that draft picks, scrap off the injury heap, and backups and special teamers can step up. Some will and some won't -- and even the ones who do will likely give up a big play for every big play they make.

The losses of Simmons and Kaesviharn could be called a setback from a depth standpoint, but I don't think either is comparable to losing a starting MLB for a full season and a starting SSLB for who knows how much longer. We'll have less margin for error with injuries this season, but we'll open with an equally capable group to the one that played in Kansas City last season.

There's a reason teams usually try to work young guys in slowly, because the benefits of injecting youth are largest in the long term, while the risks are largest in the short-term.

Those teams tend to have talented veterans whom don't need replaced in the immediate future; a luxury the Bengals haven't had as much of under Marvin (or more-so pre-Marvin). I expect our younger players to grow into that role within a couple seasons, and the team will be more capable of following that model.

[BengalByTheBay]

There isn't. I use the yards measurement because, as I said, that's where the team is desperate to get better -- and the track record of the "throw some kids against the problem" strategy is fairly poor.

This from the guy with Ethan Kilmer as his avatar.

I keep him there to remind me exactly what we're relying on this year.

Now THAT I can relate to. I changed my avatar from slim 15 actually catching a pass to his booking photo for the Yosemite Sam impression in Florida when he got busted for that last year. That was legal run-in #2 as I recall and he's seen me through some fine days since then. Maybe, I should change it back. Maybe this is all my fault.

[HoosierCat]

The losses of Simmons and Kaesviharn could be called a setback from a depth standpoint, but I don't think either is comparable to losing a starting MLB for a full season and a starting SSLB for who knows how much longer. We'll have less margin for error with injuries this season, but we'll open with an equally capable group to the one that played in Kansas City last season.

Equally capable? Perhaps, but that isn't exactly saying a lot, is it? But you raise a good point, in that our LB situation remains a mess. Our starting MLB still appears to be not coming back, and the guy we stuck in his hole got released. So now its Caleb or Ahmad (assuming he can figure out special teams) or maybe a draft pick. That strong side guy doesn't look like he's coming back to that slot, if he comes back at all. Jeanty is servicable but not the disruptive type you want there...thus we get the dubious PR concerning a certain "next Adalius Thomas." Or maybe a draft pick. Weak side? Landon? draft pick? I dunno.

I just see this as something of a rebuilding year. Assuming that the Bengals don't choose unwisely in the draft, and that our selections have a bit more luck on the injury fronts, all these new guys should pay solid dividends in '08 and '09. But they'll cost us some in '07.

[Stripes]

I just see this as something of a rebuilding year. Assuming that the Bengals don't choose unwisely in the draft, and that our selections have a bit more luck on the injury fronts, all these new guys should pay solid dividends in '08 and '09. But they'll cost us some in '07.

In truth that viewpoint isn't at all far separated from my own. I don't expect any noteable step back in 2007, but the real fruits of the Bengals' troubles should be seen in the few seasons thereafter as you said.

[JoePong]

LOL, how would we have a better defense. We havent made any improvements and have lost viable players. Unless he secrectly traded for Brian Urlacher behind close doors, I dont know how this defense will be better

This really might be the dumbest comment and most ignorant post I have ever read.

But I guess that's what I should expect from aN Obama supporter.

[HairOnFire]

Equally capable? Perhaps, but that isn't exactly saying a lot, is it?

Actually, it is if you keep in mind that the Bengals ranking in scoring defense was 17th. Plus, the run defense was also middle of the pack. Obviously what needs to be improved dramatically is a pass defense that seemed to crater overnight, and that's not impossible.

[chrishcovga]

Marvin says we will have a better defense in '07 !!!!!!!!!!!

- WOW, This I gotta see !!!!!

[Stripes]

Obviously what needs to be improved dramatically is a pass defense that seemed to crater overnight, and that's not impossible.

Agreed, though I'm still not certain where to place the blame for those struggles. The pass rush could use a boost at DT, I think, but it was still much improved from the anemic 2005 version. The secondary had its problems for sure, primarily Tory who is no longer on the roster. If Deltha ends up traded, that'll be a tough hit to take for the already young unit... Much moreso than Kaesviharn ever could be, IMO.

If Deltha stays here and plays at the same level he did in 2006, I'd still expect improvement due to Joseph's presence opposite him. Should he go, the likelihood we see any progress will be dim with a rookie or Keiwan Ratliff in his place. It may still be the best long term decision to trade Deltha away, of course, but it'd be another setback to stunt the defense's growth in the short term.

[agreen_112]

I can't wait to see O-dawg back on the field! He alone will help improve our defense. Soon as he gets back on the field and blows up, we'll all forget about the past year.

[ArmyBengal]

I can't wait to see O-dawg back on the field! He alone will help improve our defense. Soon as he gets back on the field and blows up, we'll all forget about the past year.

He's getting back on the field when ?? I wouldn't mind seeing him get another shot at things, but he's not anywhere close from what I've read... Like Marvin says, Odell isn't a concern at this point in time...

WHODEY !!!