Kelly, K2 to Cards?

[HoosierCat]

Another tidbit on K2...

Buccaneers | Kaesviharn may meet with team

Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:31:46 -0800

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports free agent S Kevin Kaesviharn (Bengals) could meet with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

[BTG]

Ok, so here's what's going to happen with Kase. If he stays, it means we'll be paying him somewhere around the lines of 3 mil a year. That's the way the market is right now. Do any of you think Kevin Kaseviharn is worth 3 mil a year? Seriously, I'm asking a question. Personally I do not.

Now, I like Kase ... always have. But he is not the answer the defense needs, and I think we all know he's a role player, and that his six interceptions were almost all a matter of "right place, right time" in zone coverage.

I would much rather see the Bengals spend an extra mil a year or so and bring in Ken Hamlin. Maybe I'm crazy.

[SkinneymulleT]

Ok, so here's what's going to happen with Kase. If he stays, it means we'll be paying him somewhere around the lines of 3 mil a year. That's the way the market is right now. Do any of you think Kevin Kaseviharn is worth 3 mil a year? Seriously, I'm asking a question. Personally I do not.

Now, I like Kase ... always have. But he is not the answer the defense needs, and I think we all know he's a role player, and that his six interceptions were almost all a matter of "right place, right time" in zone coverage.

I would much rather see the Bengals spend an extra mil a year or so and bring in Ken Hamlin. Maybe I'm crazy.

So you only get credit for int's if you are fantastic athlete who makes a spectacular play in man coverage ? Please. How about he is smart player who did what he was asked to, used his mind to read quarterback and team tendencies in situations and that placed him in position to make a play (and made the play) that many other players(jj for one) were not able to do. Not that "kase" or kk is the best at his position, but he should get credit for what he has done. And 3 mill a year, yes i would seriously consider paying it because without him we would have been 6-10 last year!

[BTG]

Ok, so here's what's going to happen with Kase. If he stays, it means we'll be paying him somewhere around the lines of 3 mil a year. That's the way the market is right now. Do any of you think Kevin Kaseviharn is worth 3 mil a year? Seriously, I'm asking a question. Personally I do not.

Now, I like Kase ... always have. But he is not the answer the defense needs, and I think we all know he's a role player, and that his six interceptions were almost all a matter of "right place, right time" in zone coverage.

I would much rather see the Bengals spend an extra mil a year or so and bring in Ken Hamlin. Maybe I'm crazy.

So you only get credit for int's if you are fantastic athlete who makes a spectacular play in man coverage ? Please. How about he is smart player who did what he was asked to, used his mind to read quarterback and team tendencies in situations and that placed him in position to make a play (and made the play) that many other players(jj for one) were not able to do. Not that "kase" or kk is the best at his position, but he should get credit for what he has done. And 3 mill a year, yes i would seriously consider paying it because without him we would have been 6-10 last year!

Kase is a role player who was in the right place at the right time on six occasions last season. It's too bad there are no stats to see how many times he blew a coverage or couldn't keep up with someone on offense due to his lack of speed.

Furthermore, interceptions are an innacurate measuring stick for the effectiveness of a player - especially a defensive back. Champ Bailey was considered the best defensive back in the league when he was in Washington, and he only eight picks in his last three years there...probably because few teams threw at him.

Perhaps you're right, though. Maybe we should judge a DB on his interception total. In that case, we should consider moving Odell to safety. After all, he did have five picks his rookie year. While we're at it, we should also keep Tory James as our starting cornerback. After all, he has 17 interceptions over the past three seasons, and is clearly an all pro talent that we couldn't do without.

[HoosierCat]

Ok, so here's what's going to happen with Kase. If he stays, it means we'll be paying him somewhere around the lines of 3 mil a year. That's the way the market is right now.

Honestly, I think if we could get him for $3m/year, it would be a bargain. But I'm not sure your estimate isn't low. After all, this is a market in which career special teamers like Marcus Wilkins are getting a million a year.

[SkinneymulleT]

Ok, so here's what's going to happen with Kase. If he stays, it means we'll be paying him somewhere around the lines of 3 mil a year. That's the way the market is right now. Do any of you think Kevin Kaseviharn is worth 3 mil a year? Seriously, I'm asking a question. Personally I do not.

Now, I like Kase ... always have. But he is not the answer the defense needs, and I think we all know he's a role player, and that his six interceptions were almost all a matter of "right place, right time" in zone coverage.

I would much rather see the Bengals spend an extra mil a year or so and bring in Ken Hamlin. Maybe I'm crazy.

So you only get credit for int's if you are fantastic athlete who makes a spectacular play in man coverage ? Please. How about he is smart player who did what he was asked to, used his mind to read quarterback and team tendencies in situations and that placed him in position to make a play (and made the play) that many other players(jj for one) were not able to do. Not that "kase" or kk is the best at his position, but he should get credit for what he has done. And 3 mill a year, yes i would seriously consider paying it because without him we would have been 6-10 last year!

Kase is a role player who was in the right place at the right time on six occasions last season. It's too bad there are no stats to see how many times he blew a coverage or couldn't keep up with someone on offense due to his lack of speed.

Furthermore, interceptions are an innacurate measuring stick for the effectiveness of a player - especially a defensive back. Champ Bailey was considered the best defensive back in the league when he was in Washington, and he only eight picks in his last three years there...probably because few teams threw at him.

Perhaps you're right, though. Maybe we should judge a DB on his interception total. In that case, we should consider moving Odell to safety. After all, he did have five picks his rookie year. While we're at it, we should also keep Tory James as our starting cornerback. After all, he has 17 interceptions over the past three seasons, and is clearly an all pro talent that we couldn't do without.

Oh did I say we should judge a DB on his int's total? Where? When? Apparently you dont read real well. All I said is he should get credit for what he has done and there is value in a players mental skills in addition to his physical skills. Being in the right place at the right time is what this game is about. Anyone out there have the stats for KK getting smoked last year? I dont remember many last year as I do in 05 when he had no help but from Oh'im-late. But in essence you say it was luck or right place right time. I say bs. Champ is corner. KK a safety(although he played some nickle corner when bc we had no one else). No comparison. But only people who understand the pro game can get that. They also understand when you make an assertion about zone coverage, keeping up with someone is usually not an issue. That only comes in man coverage, unless it the safety comming over the top in cover 2(where they should have cb help and thus a non issue) or a blitz situation in cover 4 when they must pick up a man but the blitz should get there fast enough so deep speed is again a non issue or not his fault. Quick recognition skills is can be more important than speed in the safety spot. And your odell comment makes you look just foolish. But I geuss odell was just lucky too. And tory was good when he was younger, had a tendency to gamble thats all. Now he is old so I dont even know what your saying? If I had a time machine would i go back get him and allow him to start now? UM SURE! But i geuss he was just lucky too. Deon Sanders is the only one who can be credited with deserving an INT!

[BTG]

Ok, so here's what's going to happen with Kase. If he stays, it means we'll be paying him somewhere around the lines of 3 mil a year. That's the way the market is right now.

Honestly, I think if we could get him for $3m/year, it would be a bargain. But I'm not sure your estimate isn't low. After all, this is a market in which career special teamers like Marcus Wilkins are getting a million a year.

You're probably right. He'll likely end up getting an offer of something like 13 mil over 4 years with a 5 mil bonus.

Along those lines, I think we could land Hamlin for 16 mil over 4 years with about a 6 mil bonus. I think it's worth the extra cabbage. Like I said once before, barring injury Hamlin and Madieu would turn the safety position into a strength for the next 7 years. They would compliment each other very well, as Hamlin is known more as a run stopper/big hitter with coverage skills while Madieu is better as a center field free safety who can tackle.

[SkinneymulleT]

Ok, so here's what's going to happen with Kase. If he stays, it means we'll be paying him somewhere around the lines of 3 mil a year. That's the way the market is right now.

Honestly, I think if we could get him for $3m/year, it would be a bargain. But I'm not sure your estimate isn't low. After all, this is a market in which career special teamers like Marcus Wilkins are getting a million a year.

You're probably right. He'll likely end up getting an offer of something like 13 mil over 4 years with a 5 mil bonus.

Along those lines, I think we could land Hamlin for 16 mil over 4 years with about a 6 mil bonus. I think it's worth the extra cabbage. Like I said once before, barring injury Hamlin and Madieu would turn the safety position into a strength for the next 7 years. They would compliment each other very well, as Hamlin is known more as a run stopper/big hitter with coverage skills while Madieu is better as a center field free safety who can tackle.

Um, Is DJ still on our team? He is great tackler, from what ive seen, and when he played excelled at run support. I would only bring in a FA or draft a new Safety if he had the speed to play any DB position. Surprise is the advantage that is to hard to find in a safety(not lb, or corner but someone who can play safety).

[BTG]

First, if you actually think speed doesn't matter just because a defense is in zone coverage, then you need a lesson in football 101. Speed and agility makes seams between the zones much smaller and negates the effectiveness of crossing routes and the like. Hell, just go back and watch the national title game. Watch how Florida's speed beat the OSU defense all over the field.

Other than your ideas about zone coverage, I'm not even going to justify the rest of your lunatic babbling with further response, because it's not worth it. All it is is your opinions mixed in with childish insults and inflammatory statements.

Regardless of what I (or anyone who disagrees with you, for that matter) say or how I say it, you're going to fall back into the same routine as you have in the other thread whenever anyone said anything you didn't like or agree with: ranting and raving like a complete psychopath, and proving that your social skills are similar to those of a serial killer...or a kid throwing a temper tantrum because his mommy won't buy the toy he wants. You fire off childish insults and ludicrous claims that only serve to detract from the validity of the person you're speaking with...again, because you're a troll.

[BTG]

Um, Is DJ still on our team? He is great tackler, from what ive seen, and when he played excelled at run support. I would only bring in a FA or draft a new Safety if he had the speed to play any DB position. Surprise is the advantage that is to hard to find in a safety(not lb, or corner but someone who can play safety).

Dexter Jackson has played in 29 games over the past three seasons, and has missed time in six of his eight seasons in the league. He's not a bad player at all, but relying on him to be a season long factor would be like the Red Sox relying on JD Drew to give them 150-plus games. It could happen, but it's not likely.

And yes, Hamlin missed ten games in 2005 because of a scull fracture after some idiot hit him over the head with a street sign, but he's played in all 16 games every other season in his career -- including last season, which indicates he's fully recovered.

[Spain]

Let kelley walk, he dropped alot of balls thrown his way! The kid with the most cotton candy has spoken!

[Stripes]

I don't recall Kelly dropping many passes. His problem as a receiver is getting open, not making the catch.

[HoosierCat]

If the AZ Republic reporter is right, we're in a bidding war.

With the Cardinals

Over Reggie Kelly.

http://www.azcentral.com/blogs/index.php?b...blogtype=Sports

It is to laugh.

[SkinneymulleT]

First, if you actually think speed doesn't matter just because a defense is in zone coverage, then you need a lesson in football 101. Speed and agility makes seams between the zones much smaller and negates the effectiveness of crossing routes and the like. Hell, just go back and watch the national title game. Watch how Florida's speed beat the OSU defense all over the field.

Other than your ideas about zone coverage, I'm not even going to justify the rest of your lunatic babbling with further response, because it's not worth it. All it is is your opinions mixed in with childish insults and inflammatory statements.

Regardless of what I (or anyone who disagrees with you, for that matter) say or how I say it, you're going to fall back into the same routine as you have in the other thread whenever anyone said anything you didn't like or agree with: ranting and raving like a complete psychopath, and proving that your social skills are similar to those of a serial killer...or a kid throwing a temper tantrum because his mommy won't buy the toy he wants. You fire off childish insults and ludicrous claims that only serve to detract from the validity of the person you're speaking with...again, because you're a troll.

Are we talking college or pro here? Different game to the connoisseur....and who is throwing insults? I have not said a word about you on this thread. Am I not allowed opinion ? ...if am cut do i not bleed ?Sorry if you disagree with me but after reading your last 2 posts you appear to be arguing with yourself in 1 and a little thin skinned in the other. Just calm down, put down the gun and step away from the computer...oh and DJ is a fine tackler so we dont need another in Ken Hamlin. On another note Kellly is a solid blocker. That can be hard to find and from what read carson says hes a great locker room presence. Would be a shame to lose him....

[Stripes]

Take the argument to the PM system guys.