Bengals really want justin back?

[Kazkal]

Though it would be nice to find a upgrade but I guess perk is we won't have to draft someone and if they do use tag gives em a year see if rucker or henderson are anything more then depth.

SMITH TAhttp://forums.bengalszone.com/style_images/bengals2/folder_rte_images/textcolor.gif

Text ColorG? Don’t be surprised if the Bengals decide to franchise defensive end Justin Smith by the Feb. 22 deadline even though it would cost them $8.6 million this year.

His agent won’t be.

“They’ve said they like him and that they want to keep him. No, it wouldn’t surprise me,” Jim Steiner said Thursday.

Smith, one of only four Bengals with at least 40 career sacks (41.5), is coming off his fifth straight season in which he led the defensive line in tackles and finished as one of the team’s top two sackers. His presence would no doubt solidify the Bengals as a 4-3 defense.

Steiner and partner Ben Dogra, formerly the big hitters for SFX Sports, have recently joined forces with former IMG heavyweights Tom Condon and Ken Kremer to form the football division of CAA. The only game Smith has missed in his career was because his rookie holdout extended into the regular-season’s first weekend, but Steiner has indicated that while there hasn’t been much dialogue the club has made it known they would like to keep the man they took with the fourth pick in the 2001 draft with a long-term contract.

If the Bengals make Smith, 27, their franchise player, they would need to tender him a one-year deal for $8.6 million, the average of the top five paid ends in the NFL. That would virtually take Smith off the free-agent market that opens March 2 because compensation is two first-round draft picks.

Steiner said Smith won’t fight the tag and the Bengals’ incentive to get a long-term deal done before July 16 is that it would take the cap hit far below $8.6 million. If no deal is done before July 16, the Bengals are frozen at $8.6 million for the season because they can’t do an extension until after the season.

“We have no choice The tag is part of the system,” Steiner said. “But Justin wants to be there and they want him there so if they did tag him there would seem to be plenty of time to get a long-term deal that I would imagine both sides would prefer.”

[derekshank]

I'll never fully understand all the hate for Justin Smith by the fans around here. He's not elite, and that is what people want from an overall 4th pick... but to want to send him packing is just silly.

He is 8th in the league in tackles among D-Linemen, and 3rd in the league tackles/assists. If you want to argue that he doesn't make enough tackles behind the line, fine... make that arguement. But there aren't any Bengals players doing that. If Smith doesn't get the tackle, it's got to be 10 yards down the field by a safety.

People insist that he doesn't get enough pressure on the QB... but there aren't 20 D-Linemen in the league that get more sacks than he does.

The point is... sure, you can send him packing. But there isn't much doubt that he's our best D-Lineman, and he's one of our best defenders period. If you let him go, you've got to replace him. To expect to get a better player than him at a cheaper cost is dreaming.

In other words... I want Smith back. I don't care if he's not the best DE in the NFL. He is incredibly solid... a commodity that the Bengals defense lacks at most positions. If we let him walk, we'll regret it.

[Kazkal]

Doesn't he rank preatty high on tackles for a loss too?I'd be happy with justin leaves more picks for DT,SS,Cb,LB

[Thurmanation]

Doesn't he rank preatty high on tackles for a loss too?I'd be happy with justin leaves more picks for DT,SS,Cb,LB

I like justin and all but id much rather have a Freeney or Peppers type pass rusher then him..

[Kazkal]

I'd take Peppers or Jason taylor....Dwight meh dwight has just as big of a weakness as justin does....just people ignore it because of his sack stat.

[CBin2k7]

This is not Justin hate. I think he is a good player. But he is not elite, and my gripe would be if the Bengals payed him as if he was elite.

He is as solid as they come on the defensive side of the football for the Bengals (which isn't saying much), but I don't think he is going to get much better.

Justin Smith will make a ton of tackles, but he won't generate much consistent QB pressure, he is often taken out of the game by fairly average offensive tackles and his wide rush lanes and over committment to play fakes and misdirection plays lead to some runs right at him popping for big yardage.

Again I would take Justin back at a reasonable price. That price is anybody's best guess, but don't overpay for him.

[Thurmanation]

Again I would take Justin back at a reasonable price. That price is anybody's best guess, but don't overpay for him.

Yeah thats sorta what i ment too, like for what were paying for him id expect us to get a Peppers or Freeney, Or Taylor pass rushing DE

[Kazkal]

Well 8.5 top 5DE is only if we can't get him under contract.

But if he's willing to work with the bengals I would think he would wait to sign the franchise thing and only do it if they can't agree to terms.

[schweinhart]

Hard pressed to think of a better run defending RDE in the league....Justin's run pursuit repeatedly stops 3 or 4 yard gains from going for a lot more. He's consistent as a pass rusher but has no hope against better LTs and has to rely on games like 3 sacks vs. Kyle Turley to get his numbers. Never hurt and never comes out.

Is that all worth a franchise tag or a long-term deal? Probably. But the Bengals signed Jumpy Jr. to the kind of money that IMO indicates he's Justin' replacement at RDE.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Smith is a tweener and always will be. Lb's should be (and half the time are any ways) making those tackles, he should spend more time containing and taking up blockers for LB's - instead he leaves gaping holes and chases people down from behind. He's so busy running upfield he doesn't sense when to stretch plays out to the sideline consistently enough either.

He has to pass rush 5X more than any other sack specialist just to get his #'s, half or most of which come in one or two games a year, as far as sacks.

No doubt he's a good player, but not an every down player ideally, was overdrafted, is a true tweener on any defense in the NFL, and $8 million a year and more is a complete waste.

I would at least like to see what this defense can do with a different look, he's been here 4-5 years and they've sucked the whole time.

They won't miss him. Get a guy QB's fear and teams have to double up and scheme against.

That is why Freeney is such a weapon. He changes the way people do things. Smith just pushes QB's up in the pocket. He's fairly easy to scheme against, and one of the reasons the Bengals' have been so susceptible to cut backs as well.

Enough already. Let him go! I'd love to have a Will Smith or Freeney type here. (and get a good LB or two)

[ChadJohnson-85]

Tagging Smith would probably take the Bengals out of the hunt early in free agency for one of the big names.

[JoePong]

But the Bengals signed Jumpy Jr. to the kind of money that IMO indicates he's Justin' replacement at RDE.

Except Geathers said he's more comfortable on the left side.

[Kazkal]

a pass rusher but has no hope against better LT

It happens most of dwights numbers come from bad Olines....look at how he faired vs levi in 2005

ala why bengals might be thinking justin stay where he's at and geather bumps up to fulltime starter.

[Spain]

The real ?, is how did the water boy injury and the suspension play into this decision. The 3-4 is hard too stock. This is finally the end of the experiment. Look forward too a 4-3 , boring , plain D.(probably better)

[HoosierCat]

I'll never fully understand all the hate for Justin Smith by the fans around here. He's not elite, and that is what people want from an overall 4th pick... but to want to send him packing is just silly.

I agree -- but as one of Smith stauchest defenders, even I have to say that a franchise-caliber deal is hard for me to choke down.

Still, tagging Justin makes a certain amount of sense. Given that there are a lot of teams with a lot of cap space this offseason, and knowing the way the Bengals play (or more appropriately, don't play) the FA game, I would have to peg our chances of landing a top outside FA (Briggs, Thomas, Clements, etc.) as slim-to-none. Mostly none. And I'd rather have Justin but no other elite FA, than no Justin and no other elite FA to counter that loss.

[schweinhart]

But the Bengals signed Jumpy Jr. to the kind of money that IMO indicates he's Justin' replacement at RDE.

Except Geathers said he's more comfortable on the left side.

Maybe as a pass rusher but vs. the run with the often extra trash, the Bengals appeared to have preferred the bigger DE in B-Rob. The most impressive thing Jumpy Jr. showed last year was how well he could drop back from the left side. The lighter, quicker version of Jumpy looks far better suited to handle the space and backside pursuit from the weakside much better than the 2005 Jumpy did.

As for Freeney vs. Levi in 2005, true. But hearken back to Freeney vs. Ogden in 2005 and Freeny made one of the best LTs in the game look helpless, something Justin has never been able to come close to with 2 cracks a year.

[CJBestInAFC]

This is what the Bengals should do. Franchise and then trade Smith to move up in the draft and draft Jamaal Anderson. Here is the write up on the guy and I think a team like the Texans would take that trade (#8 for Smith and 18th pick in the first round). This would be your Freeney/Peppers type of player the Bengals have been looking for.

Jamaal Anderson DE 6'6 280 Arkansas Jr.

By: Robert Davis

Anderson is a former wide receiver that made a smooth transition to defensive end. As a freshman reserve, he was in on 18 tackles. As a sophomore, he was in the rotation, and started the last five games of the year after an injury, and he has taken off from that point. He had 47 tackles, 10.5 for loss, and four sacks that season. Anderson blew up as a junior, finishing with 65 tackles, 19.5 for loss, and 13.5 sacks.

Jamaal Anderson is an absolute freak physically. Not only is he an excellent athlete, with great quickness and agility, but he has great size as well. He is a difference maker off the edge as a pass rusher. He dominated as a junior, and still has a ton of untapped potential. He could be an all around force at the next level.

Anderson is still adjusting to playing in the trenches, and is still a work in progress. He has been able to get by on his tremendous physical ability, but he will not be able to rely on that alone in the NFL. He declared after his junior year, only having about a season and a half of starting experience under his belt.

Anderson has the size and talent that will draw comparisons to Mario Williams and Julius Peppers, and he carries a great deal of upside at the next level. He could really put on a show in workouts and has a shot to be the first defensive end selected. He may need a little time to become the force many expect, but if a team is patient, he could

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospe...l_anderson.html

[Whur CHad At?]

If we could do that trade, I would take it any day.

[schweinhart]

A trade like that should take about a millisecond to decide on. Problem is the Bengals have no leverage. For the difference of what a team drafting above the Bengals needs DE wise, they'll be more tempted to draft or sign a 2nd tier free agent DE or trade with another tagged DE more appealing than Justin.

No question Jamaal Anderson is a physical freak but he's more of an athletic type like Charles Grant than either Super Mario or Julius. There's a good chance Jamaal does rise higher than the 2nd round projection he said he was given by the NFL draft evaluation committe for underclassmen but there's also the strong likelihood that Jamaal is still there at #18. I expect the paid draft hacks to start reshuffling their cards after Jarvis Moss blows minds at the combine. Moss is the DE with the real shot to be the 1st DE off the board not Anderson IMO.

Despite his tremendous upside and excellent senior year, Anderson is still a very raw player. He thrived when Arkansas ran a 5 man down defense line with him split wide at LDE and did well handling TEs. But he won't be facing TEs so much in the NFL.

If the Bengals can work a trade for Justin, the Rams, Falcons and 49ers make the most sense with the least for the Bengals to have to give up. I really can't see that any of those teams will trade for Justin knowing the $ they have to give him and the DEs that are there in this draft w/o demanding more from the Bengals than just swapping picks and getting Justin. I would say they would also want the Bengals 2nd but might agree to their 4th unless Deltha O'Neal gets brought into the trade mix.

[jjakq27]

I'd take a trade like that too. i don't see us getting an impact player drafting where we are at right now.

[fattyjay]

Are you kidding? No impact players are available at 18? Why even bother with the draft then? All of the teams from the Bengals position on down should forfeit their picks because no impact players will be left. Might as well make the draft 1 round long with 17 picks so as not to waste all of our time.

[derekshank]

Are you kidding? No impact players are available at 18? Why even bother with the draft then? All of the teams from the Bengals position on down should forfeit their picks because no impact players will be left. Might as well make the draft 1 round long with 17 picks so as not to waste all of our time.

That's not exactly fair given the point that's being made. The point here is getting a replacement for Justin Smith. Even if we had the #1 overall pick, it's not likely that the rookie's production would immediately be at the level of performance that we get from Smith right now. Look how long it has taken Mario Williams to do anything at all.

That's not to say that the #18 pick wouldn't eventually be better than Smith. Actually, it isn't completely unlikely that a 2nd round pick could eventually give better production... but for the '07 season, there isn't a player in the draft that will be an adequate "replacement" for Smith. Not for our needs on defense. We don't have enough impact players as it is. We probably should use the draft to get new impact players at positions that we currently have none... not "replacement" impact players when we get solid production from who we currently have.

[Kazkal]

Do you see moss having chance as 4-3 DE? or is he just prospect for SOLB.

[HoosierCat]

Poll on Lance's blog about franchising Justin, now running about 75% against / 25% for.

[Kazkal]

Well most fans after reading bengals .com think he'll get a long term contract that pays him 8.6-10million a year.I'm all up for upgrading over justin but if marvin thinks its best resign him then upgrade our other postions then i'm cool with that too.