Bengals/Steelers Game Thread

[tc81190]

schweinhart has lost all credibility with that line of thought. All.

They have to live or die with Palmer but based on this year, it'll be die until he can regain whatever he's lost

Um, he DID throw for 4000 yards this year. A Bengals record. Coming off a catestrophic knee injury. Um...

Ummmmmmm....maybe you don''t get to see the games. Or maybe even noticed the great and grand glorious point totals that don't correlate to the bloated stats like 13, 13, 13, 17, 17, 20, 23 etc. Maybe you missed some of that.

But definite credit goes to him for showing up for work. Hopefully the work is considerably more productive next year.

You've lost your motherf**king mind. Seriously.

Have you watched the games? Seriously.

Unless a team has just got a flat out shut down D, W's and L's land right on the back of the QB. Palmer failed to deliver W's this year...pure and simple. Lots of times he sure didn't get much help but he had enough opps all by his lonesome to be the difference in I'd say 4 of these losses.

Now if folks want to banter about 4,000 yards in a year, maybe take pause on that one because that ain;t necessarily a good thing if the basis for success on the field is a win rather than a loss.

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating 
Carson Palmer 482 304 3784 63.1 7.9 26 5.4 13 2.7 74 36/238 94.1

NFL Passer Rating 
Rank Player Team Yds Att Cmp TDs Ints Long Rating 
1 Peyton Manning IND 4115 520 340 29 9 68 100.9 
2 Damon Huard KC 1824 241 146 11 1 78 97.6 
3 Drew Brees NO 4372 549 352 26 11 86 96.1 
4 Donovan McNabb PHI 2647 316 180 18 6 87 95.5 
5 Carson Palmer CIN 3784 482 304 26 13 74 94.1

Quarterback Passing  
Player Team G Att Att/G Cmp *Pct* Yds Yds/G Lng TDs Int Sck SckY Rate 
Anthony Wright CIN 3 3 1.0 3 100.0 31 10.3 22 0 0 0 0 109.7 
A.J. Feeley PHI 1 5 5.0 4 80.0 21 21.0 8 0 0 1 10 84.2 
Brian Griese CHI 5 17 3.4 13 76.5 96 19.2 16 0 0 2 14 89.3 
Brooks Bollinger MIN 2 18 9.0 13 72.2 146 73.0 50 0 1 6 42 72.9 
Matt Cassel NE 5 7 1.4 5 71.4 32 6.4 10 0 0 2 9 80.7 
Sage Rosenfels HOU 4 39 9.8 27 69.2 265 66.2 28 3 1 1 5 103.0 
David Carr HOU 15 427 28.5 293 68.6 2681 178.7 53 11 11 40 237 83.3 
Peyton Manning IND 15 520 34.7 340 65.4 4115 274.3 68 29 9 14 86 100.9 
Tony Romo DAL 15 305 20.3 197 64.6 2582 172.1 53 17 12 17 110 93.4 
Drew Brees NO 15 549 36.6 352 64.1 4372 291.5 86 26 11 18 105 96.1 
Chad Pennington NYJ 15 455 30.3 291 64.0 3195 213.0 71 16 16 29 164 81.7 
Charlie Frye CLE 12 358 29.8 227 63.4 2267 188.9 75 10 16 43 254 72.0 
Kurt Warner ARI 6 136 22.7 86 63.2 1021 170.2 54 5 5 13 94 83.0 
**Carson Palmer** CIN 15 482 32.1 304 63.1 3784 252.3 74 26 13 36 238 94.1 
Marc Bulger STL 15 558 37.2 351 62.9 4053 270.2 67 23 8 49 366 92.5 
J.P. Losman BUF 15 394 26.3 248 62.9 2814 187.6 83 18 12 44 309 86.8 
Steve McNair BAL 15 433 28.9 272 62.8 2834 188.9 87 16 11 14 84 83.4 
Cleo Lemon MIA 3 32 10.7 20 62.5 202 67.3 38 1 0 3 18 90.9 
Mark Brunell WAS 10 260 26.0 162 62.3 1789 178.9 74 8 4 12 92 86.5 
Jeff Garcia PHI 7 185 26.4 115 62.2 1280 182.9 65 10 2 6 40 96.2 
Jon Kitna DET 15 554 36.9 344 62.1 3902 260.1 60 17 21 58 359 77.6 
*Tom Brady* NE 15 492 32.8 304 61.8 3304 220.3 54 23 12 25 170 87.0 
Brad Johnson MIN 14 438 31.3 269 61.4 2738 195.6 46 9 15 29 200 71.9 
Tim Rattay TB 3 74 24.7 45 60.8 563 187.7 64 3 2 3 10 86.7 
*Philip Rivers* SD 15 436 29.1 265 60.8 3157 210.5 57 20 8 25 133 90.5 
Damon Huard KC 9 241 26.8 146 60.6 1824 202.7 78 11 1 16 106 97.6 
Trent Green KC 7 177 25.3 107 60.5 1161 165.9 39 6 7 21 117 74.6 
David Garrard JAC 10 223 22.3 135 60.5 1595 159.5 49 9 8 18 108 80.8 
Daunte Culpepper MIA 4 134 33.5 81 60.4 929 232.2 52 2 3 21 150 77.0 
Kyle Boller BAL 5 55 11.0 33 60.0 485 97.0 77 5 2 3 16 104.0 
Jake Delhomme CAR 12 404 33.7 240 59.4 2598 216.5 72 15 11 22 167 79.4 
*Ben Roethlisberger* PIT 14 441 31.5 261 59.2 3233 230.9 63 17 22 45 275 74.0 
Byron Leftwich JAC 6 183 30.5 108 59.0 1159 193.2 51 7 5 9 48 79.0 
Charlie Batch PIT 8 53 6.6 31 58.5 492 61.5 87 5 0 3 13 121.0 
Alex Smith SF 15 410 27.3 240 58.5 2696 179.7 75 15 15 31 179 75.2 
Chris Weinke CAR 3 96 32.0 56 58.3 625 208.3 38 2 4 10 55 67.4 
Seneca Wallace SEA 8 141 17.6 82 58.2 927 115.9 49 8 7 14 83 76.2 
*Eli Manning* NYG 16 522 32.6 301 57.7 3244 202.8 55 24 18 25 186 77.0 
Joey Harrington MIA 11 388 35.3 223 57.5 2236 203.3 48 12 15 15 116 68.2 
Tarvaris Jackson MIN 3 47 15.7 27 57.4 262 87.3 35 1 2 4 23 62.5 
Aaron Brooks OAK 7 166 23.7 95 57.2 969 138.4 57 3 7 24 159 62.6 
Jay Cutler DEN 4 105 26.2 60 57.1 771 192.8 71 8 4 11 68 89.8 
*Donovan McNabb* PHI 10 316 31.6 180 57.0 2647 264.7 87 18 6 21 140 95.5 
Matt Leinart ARI 12 377 31.4 214 56.8 2547 212.2 58 11 12 21 158 74.0 
*Matt Hasselbeck* SEA 11 342 31.1 193 56.4 2226 202.4 72 17 15 33 225 74.5 
*Brett Favre* GB 15 571 38.1 322 56.4 3600 240.0 82 17 17 19 125 72.9 
Derek Anderson CLE 5 117 23.4 66 56.4 793 158.6 54 5 8 8 66 63.1 
*Rex Grossman* CHI 15 468 31.2 260 55.6 3160 210.7 62 23 17 20 137 77.8 
*Jake Plummer* DEN 15 315 21.0 175 55.6 1994 132.9 83 11 12 17 108 70.5 
Chris Simms TB 3 106 35.3 58 54.7 585 195.0 55 1 7 4 32 46.3 
Brett Basanez CAR 1 11 11.0 6 54.5 56 56.0 18 0 1 0 0 30.9 
Bruce Gradkowski TB 13 328 25.2 177 54.0 1661 127.8 53 9 9 25 146 65.9 
Drew Bledsoe DAL 6 169 28.2 90 53.3 1164 194.0 51 7 8 16 107 69.2 
Andrew Walter OAK 12 276 23.0 147 53.3 1677 139.8 51 3 13 46 256 55.8 
Jason Campbell WAS 7 207 29.6 110 53.1 1297 185.3 66 10 6 7 55 76.5 
Vince Young TEN 14 321 22.9 169 52.6 1972 140.9 39 12 11 20 109 69.7 
Michael Vick ATL 15 374 24.9 196 52.4 2393 159.5 55 19 13 42 274 74.9 
Matt Schaub ATL 15 6 0.4 3 50.0 33 2.2 13 0 1 0 0 27.1 
Kerry Collins TEN 4 90 22.5 42 46.7 549 137.2 36 1 6 4 23 42.3 
Marques Tuiasosopo OAK 2 13 6.5 6 46.2 68 34.0 29 1 2 0 0 48.4 
Brodie Croyle KC 2 7 3.5 3 42.9 23 11.5 11 0 2 1 10 11.9 
Aaron Rodgers GB 2 15 7.5 6 40.0 46 23.0 16 0 0 3 18 48.2 
Gus Frerotte STL 1 3 3.0 1 33.3 27 27.0 27 0 0 0 0 67.4 
Patrick Ramsey NYJ 1 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 39.6 
Kellen Clemens NYJ 2 1 0.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 27 39.6 
Ken Dorsey CLE 1 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 7 39.6

[schweinhart]

They could've benched him just to take the pressure off of him. He pretty much nosedived the last 3 games of the year. Besides, LeBeau didn't have a game plan to account for Anthony Wright using his feet and I'm pretty sure Wright could've thrown the same passes that Palmer did to Henry -- wide open with no pressure and no defender 10 yards in sight and an up-for-grabs in man.

Palmer deserves unbounded credit for geting himself in a position to start this season and finish the year. He could've just as easily Culpeppered 2006. But he struggled and he had lots of help struggling with a makeshift O-line. End result 8-8 instead of 12-4.

[BersMrnsT]

Dude schwein, I'm sure Carson would be the first one to tell you that he missed on some of his throws this year, but he needs help. Tom Brady doesn't become a super bowl legend if Adam Vinatieri doesn't nail those field goals. Plain and simple, it's a team game, and there's no way you can say that the only person that deserves blame for missing the playoffs is CP. I think you need to admit that you're being a little too hard on him.

[Spor_tees]

Did anyone notice that Kitna threw for 4000 yards this year too? Is that saying he is as good a QB as Palmer? Of coarse not. Fact is Palmer wasn't himself this year and down the stretch when the games mattered, he didn't have the composure to keep his team in check and lead them to victory. Seriously, what is up with all those false starts in the last game of the year? Isn't a team full of Pro Bowlers supposed to work together better than that? Biggest serious of events that cost the Bengals the game was the back to back motion penalties that forced them into a FG instead of a TD.

Point is, 4000 yards doesn't give someone a "Get out of Jail Free" card

[tc81190]

They could've benched him just to take the pressure off of him. He pretty much nosedived the last 3 games of the year. Besides, LeBeau didn't have a game plan to account for Anthony Wright using his feet and I'm pretty sure Wright could've thrown the same passes that Palmer did to Henry -- wide open with no pressure and no defender 10 yards in sight and an up-for-grabs in man.

Palmer deserves unbounded credit for geting himself in a position to start this season and finish the year. He could've just as easily Culpeppered 2006. But he struggled and he had lots of help struggling with a makeshift O-line. End result 8-8 instead of 12-4.

But Carson can't make the O-line play harder, push harder. Sure, maybe if he was struggling, which maybe he was, I might've alternated Wright and Palmer.

Is anyone listening to WLW/92.5 FOX? Apparently, according to Willie, the team is full of selfish bastards.

Did anyone notice that Kitna threw for 4000 yards this year too? Is that saying he is as good a QB as Palmer? Of coarse not. Fact is Palmer wasn't himself this year and down the stretch when the games mattered, he didn't have the composure to keep his team in check and lead them to victory. Seriously, what is up with all those false starts in the last game of the year? Isn't a team full of Pro Bowlers supposed to work together better than that? Biggest serious of events that cost the Bengals the game was the back to back motion penalties that forced them into a FG instead of a TD.

Point is, 4000 yards doesn't give someone a "Get out of Jail Free" card

But he shouldn't be benched. Maybe Marvin needs to sit him down. Something, I don't know. I don't know if he's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in the spotlight. I'm leaning towards #18 though.

[schweinhart]

Unless a team has just got a flat out shut down D, W's and L's land right on the back of the QB. Palmer failed to deliver W's this year...pure and simple. Lots of times he sure didn't get much help but he had enough opps all by his lonesome to be the difference in I'd say 4 of these losses.

Now if folks want to banter about 4,000 yards in a year, maybe take pause on that one because that ain;t necessarily a good thing if the basis for success on the field is a win rather than a loss.

I'm not going to join the bash-fest, Schweinhart, you've proven you know your s**t. Still, I just can't understand your argument here. Palmer had opportunities all by his lonesome to win us those games? How is that? How did he have that opportunity anymore than the defense had an opportunity to make a stop, or a receiver to hold onto a pass, or a coach to get his head out of his anal cavity?

How can Palmer have more opps all by his lonesome? The ball is in his hands more than the any other Bengals...Simple.

Now could some of what Palmer was not capable of doing this year been offset with some help by others, some injuries not happening, some legal miscues not arising? Sure. But bottom line is the QB wins and loses games, especially the close ones. He can't kick Shayne Graham's FG for him or snaBrad St. Louis's snaps but he does have it within his control to do more than any other Bengals to put his team in a position where those things and fumbles here and there, dropped passes, blown blocks in protection, etc...won't determine the outcome of the game if the QB delivers virtually all the time the way Palmer did last year.

[tc81190]

Unless a team has just got a flat out shut down D, W's and L's land right on the back of the QB. Palmer failed to deliver W's this year...pure and simple. Lots of times he sure didn't get much help but he had enough opps all by his lonesome to be the difference in I'd say 4 of these losses.

Now if folks want to banter about 4,000 yards in a year, maybe take pause on that one because that ain;t necessarily a good thing if the basis for success on the field is a win rather than a loss.

I'm not going to join the bash-fest, Schweinhart, you've proven you know your s**t. Still, I just can't understand your argument here. Palmer had opportunities all by his lonesome to win us those games? How is that? How did he have that opportunity anymore than the defense had an opportunity to make a stop, or a receiver to hold onto a pass, or a coach to get his head out of his anal cavity?

How can Palmer have more opps all by his lonesome? The ball is in his hands more than the any other Bengals...Simple.

Now could some of what Palmer was not capable of doing this year been offset with some help by others, some injuries not happening, some legal miscues not arising? Sure. But bottom line is the QB wins and loses games, especially the close ones. He can't kick Shayne Graham's FG for him or snaBrad St. Louis's snaps but he does have it within his control to do more than any other Bengals to put his team in a position where those things and fumbles here and there, dropped passes, blown blocks in protection, etc...won't determine the outcome of the game if the QB delivers virtually all the time the way Palmer did last year.

But you have to realize, what the big difference in Carson between last year and now?

I'd say a cadaver, and a bunch of ligaments.

[schweinhart]

Dude schwein, I'm sure Carson would be the first one to tell you that he missed on some of his throws this year, but he needs help. Tom Brady doesn't become a super bowl legend if Adam Vinatieri doesn't nail those field goals. Plain and simple, it's a team game, and there's no way you can say that the only person that deserves blame for missing the playoffs is CP. I think you need to admit that you're being a little too hard on him.

Sure I'm hard on him. The Bengals live or die by his play. The good things I noticed this year about him were that he's proven his commitment to lead the team by rehabbing and getting back on the field as fast as he did. He wants to be the man and it was good to see him get off the ground and get back in the game today unlike what happened his 1st year vs. the Pats in what amounted to a do or die game (though the knee strain he had was much worse than just getting the wind knocked out of him). Another thing was the picks, which was unfortunately offset by the sudden fumbling spree. He could've had a lot more with as many overthrows and bad throws he had into coverage this year but on the whole, he was able to keep his picks down.

But yes, you bet it's a team game. There's no question there's plenty of room for improvement on that score -- from the players to the coaches.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

They could've benched him just to take the pressure off of him. He pretty much nosedived the last 3 games of the year. Besides, LeBeau didn't have a game plan to account for Anthony Wright using his feet and I'm pretty sure Wright could've thrown the same passes that Palmer did to Henry -- wide open with no pressure and no defender 10 yards in sight and an up-for-grabs in man.

Palmer deserves unbounded credit for geting himself in a position to start this season and finish the year. He could've just as easily Culpeppered 2006. But he struggled and he had lots of help struggling with a makeshift O-line. End result 8-8 instead of 12-4.

Christ almighty, you don't *need* a game plan to stop Anthony Wright. Here's the plan: sit back in the secondary and let him throw the ball to you.

Carson was lights-out fantastic in the 4th quarter. I think this has been a hard year for him not getting reps in the preseason, probably thinking about the knee some, working behind a patchwork line, etc. And still he is a top-5 NFL passer. In a down year. And people are complaining? Are you f'ing kidding me?

Maybe it's because I'm behind the rest of you on the intoxication wagon - though I'm racing to catch up - but anyone willing to toss Carson under the bus and pin this season on him isn't thinking straight.

People to blame? Old age, for making Tory look like he's running in sand. Colombia, for supplying the Coca leaf that made the crack that tanked Odell's season. Pollack's high school coach or whoever taught him to tackle with his helmet. Bresnehan, for being a general idiot. Special teams, for imploding at exactly the wrong time every game. And Marvin, for bad clock management in about 3 games.

Screw it, bring on the draft, and go Denver so I don't have to get *exceptionally* drunk.

[CBin2k7]

Unless a team has just got a flat out shut down D, W's and L's land right on the back of the QB. Palmer failed to deliver W's this year...pure and simple. Lots of times he sure didn't get much help but he had enough opps all by his lonesome to be the difference in I'd say 4 of these losses.

Now if folks want to banter about 4,000 yards in a year, maybe take pause on that one because that ain;t necessarily a good thing if the basis for success on the field is a win rather than a loss.

I'm not going to join the bash-fest, Schweinhart, you've proven you know your s**t. Still, I just can't understand your argument here. Palmer had opportunities all by his lonesome to win us those games? How is that? How did he have that opportunity anymore than the defense had an opportunity to make a stop, or a receiver to hold onto a pass, or a coach to get his head out of his anal cavity?

How can Palmer have more opps all by his lonesome? The ball is in his hands more than the any other Bengals...Simple.

Now could some of what Palmer was not capable of doing this year been offset with some help by others, some injuries not happening, some legal miscues not arising? Sure. But bottom line is the QB wins and loses games, especially the close ones. He can't kick Shayne Graham's FG for him or snaBrad St. Louis's snaps but he does have it within his control to do more than any other Bengals to put his team in a position where those things and fumbles here and there, dropped passes, blown blocks in protection, etc...won't determine the outcome of the game if the QB delivers virtually all the time the way Palmer did last year.

schweinhart, you know I expect your posts and opinions immeasurably, when do we start expecting Carson's teammates to step up for him and make plays when he is a little off. Why can't Chad hold on to the ball, why can't Henry give extra effort, why can't Steinbach stop letting pressure get to Carson's face, why can't the oline open more holes for Rudi, why doesn't Rudi make a run longer than 10 yards. So much pressure is put on Carson to make perfect plays time in and time out. Why for once, can't his teammates pick him up when he is struggling. We expect CP to be superhuman, but the dude does struggles at points during games, and his teammates never pick him up. CP shows more heart to me out there than 90 percent of his teammates, if they showed the heart out there and the fight that Palmer has, maybe the Bengals would be 12-4 instead of 8-8.

[BersMrnsT]

Did anyone notice that Kitna threw for 4000 yards this year too?

the lions also set a single season record for fewest rush attempts in NFL history, so I'd lay off that comparison for now

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Did anyone notice that Kitna threw for 4000 yards this year too?

the lions also set a single season record for fewest rush attempts in NFL history, so I'd lay off that comparison for now

Don't forget, they also have Mike Martz for an offensive coordinator, and I think he's proven his talent at polishing turds into MVPs. If he can turn Arena Leaguers and UFAs into NFL QBs, I expect he can work something with Kitna.

So yeah, doesn't mean he's good.

[Spor_tees]

Did anyone notice that Kitna threw for 4000 yards this year too?

the lions also set a single season record for fewest rush attempts in NFL history, so I'd lay off that comparison for now

Don't forget, they also have Mike Martz for an offensive coordinator, and I think he's proven his talent at polishing turds into MVPs. If he can turn Arena Leaguers and UFAs into NFL QBs, I expect he can work something with Kitna.

So yeah, doesn't mean he's good.

Well maybe the Bengals need Martz...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Did anyone notice that Kitna threw for 4000 yards this year too?

the lions also set a single season record for fewest rush attempts in NFL history, so I'd lay off that comparison for now

Don't forget, they also have Mike Martz for an offensive coordinator, and I think he's proven his talent at polishing turds into MVPs. If he can turn Arena Leaguers and UFAs into NFL QBs, I expect he can work something with Kitna.

So yeah, doesn't mean he's good.

Well maybe the Bengals need Martz...

No thanks. 1) that circus offense slows down on grass. 2) he almost never keeps blockers in, resulting in QB detonation. That's fine when you have disposable parts behind center (like Warner), but not so good when you have a ton of $$$ invested in Carson.

Oh, it also helps to have Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, and Marshall Faulk.

I'm OK with Brat's playcalling about the last 6 games or so. He is NOT the problem. I expect the line to be healthier next year and pretty stout, especially if Whitworth can play G to replace Steinbach. I expect Carson to get rid of his mental/physical kinks. I expect them to average 26 pts per game or so.

[schweinhart]

schweinhart, you know I expect your posts and opinions immeasurably, when do we start expecting Carson's teammates to step up for him and make plays when he is a little off. Why can't Chad hold on to the ball, why can't Henry give extra effort, why can't Steinbach stop letting pressure get to Carson's face, why can't the oline open more holes for Rudi, why doesn't Rudi make a run longer than 10 yards. So much pressure is put on Carson to make perfect plays time in and time out. Why for once, can't his teammates pick him up when he is struggling. We expect CP to be superhuman, but the dude does struggles at points during games, and his teammates never pick him up. CP shows more heart to me out there than 90 percent of his teammates, if they showed the heart out there and the fight that Palmer has, maybe the Bengals would be 12-4 instead of 8-8.

The heart is there no question...the arm and the head is what has bothered me. Too greedy too often and too off too often. Big difference between Palmer's play this year and last and it cost the Bengals. Palmer needs to learn to take what is given more often so that he puts himself in a better position to get his team the win. Help would've been nice and wasn't there enough...agreed...but the buck stops with Palmer IMO. All those problems of offense...the Henry lack of effort at times (or better yet whether or not he could get on the field or not), the susceptibility of Steinbach to a power rush, the running style of Rudi, the Chad drops from time to time were already known quantities that surfaced before this year. The biggest change for the pass game was center and LT (and a decent pass receiving threat at TE in the loss of Schobel) and for the drop offs at those positions, Palmer should have been in a better position to do what he needed to do to get rid of the ball quicker when necessary and audible for better play choices when the reads were there to call for it.

[cinci_bengals]

TD KC. Up 21-10 over Jax.

May I help anounce the game, or I mean review the game with you?

Okay i'll start at the second half.Just incase you missed.

Pittsburgh kicks off to start the second half.Cincinnati receives and makes it to the 20 yard line.I forget the rest so...blah blah blah.Shayne Graham misses our chance to win and the game ends up in overtime and the score is 23-17.

[CBin2k7]

schweinhart, you know I expect your posts and opinions immeasurably, when do we start expecting Carson's teammates to step up for him and make plays when he is a little off. Why can't Chad hold on to the ball, why can't Henry give extra effort, why can't Steinbach stop letting pressure get to Carson's face, why can't the oline open more holes for Rudi, why doesn't Rudi make a run longer than 10 yards. So much pressure is put on Carson to make perfect plays time in and time out. Why for once, can't his teammates pick him up when he is struggling. We expect CP to be superhuman, but the dude does struggles at points during games, and his teammates never pick him up. CP shows more heart to me out there than 90 percent of his teammates, if they showed the heart out there and the fight that Palmer has, maybe the Bengals would be 12-4 instead of 8-8.

The heart is there no question...the arm and the head is what has bothered me. Too greedy too often and too off too often. Big difference between Palmer's play this year and last and it cost the Bengals. Palmer needs to learn to take what is given more often so that he puts himself in a better position to get his team the win. Help would've been nice and wasn't there enough...agreed...but the buck stops with Palmer IMO. All those problems of offense...the Henry lack of effort at times (or better yet whether or not he could get on the field or not), the susceptibility of Steinbach to a power rush, the running style of Rudi, the Chad drops from time to time were already known quantities that surfaced before this year. The biggest change for the pass game was center and LT (and a decent pass receiving threat at TE in the loss of Schobel) and for the drop offs at those positions, Palmer should have been in a better position to do what he needed to do to get rid of the ball quicker when necessary and audible for better play choices when the reads were there to call for it.

I agree with that assessment, he hasn't taken what the D has given to him this year. I expect him to be better next year. I think he took a step back this year as far as his development goes due to the injury. The intensity of the workouts and the fact he didn't have much on field practice time prior to training camp, affected his development. If the same problems persist next season, then I will be all over Carson. I just expect him to be money next year, with a full offseason to work on the timing with the WR's, which was really missing this year, and hopefully not having to rehab injuries (I think something is wrong with his shoulder).

Maybe he did miss Kitna a little bit also. Kitna probably did a lot to keep his mind right on the sideline and let him know what he was seeing. Wright has never struck me as someone who is great at reading coverages like Kitna is.

Goes to show you how good CP is, we can tear him apart and blast him and he knows just as much as we do he was playing substandard, but still at the end of the day he was a top 5 QB in the NFL this year and he will probably work ten times harder this offseason to clean up the mental errors.

[WhoDey93285]

Goes to show you how good CP is, we can tear him apart and blast him and he knows just as much as we do he was playing substandard, but still at the end of the day he was a top 5 QB in the NFL this year and he will probably work ten times harder this offseason to clean up the mental errors.

Great point that everyone needs to realize. As off as Carson was this season, he was still a top five quarterback in the entire league. The guy came back from a potential career ending injury. It probably took him until mid-season to stop crapping himself everytime something breathed on his leg. Frankly, I was impressed with the way he was able to play this year. Yeah, you could tell he was a little off. But, the way he bounced back and to start every game this year was nothing short of amazing. Without Palmer this year, we're 4-12, if that. Palmer was not the problem this year in any sense of the word, and I'll put money on it that next year, he'll have his best season yet.

[Stripes]

There is one fundamental problem with comparing Jon Kitna to Carson Palmer.

One sucks large amounts of monkey arse, while the other does not.

[Spor_tees]

There is one fundamental problem with comparing Jon Kitna to Carson Palmer.

One sucks large amounts of monkey arse, while the other does not.

I only brought up Kitna because everyone was making such a big deal out of Palmer throwing for 4000 yards.

Doesn't it figure that the Broncos are losing in the third quarter?

[Stripes]

There is one fundamental problem with comparing Jon Kitna to Carson Palmer.

One sucks large amounts of monkey arse, while the other does not.

I only brought up Kitna because everyone was making such a big deal out of Palmer throwing for 4000 yards.

Doesn't it figure that the Broncos are losing in the third quarter?

That's how it always seems to happen, unfortunately. I wasn't very confident coming into this week anyways, so I can't bring myself to care either way.

The 49ers might once again find away to thumb their noses in the Bengals' direction.

[HoosierCat]

'Frisco up by a TD with 6 minutes to go...twistin' the knife...

[HoosierCat]

23 all...into OT...

[Stripes]

Broncos win the toss.

[Whur CHad At?]

No way Broncos loose this game