Marvin

[cincy9275]

i have supported Marvin and have spoken very high about him. Marvin is starting to get a rep for not being able to win big games. i mean the past 2 losses. last year playoff collapse his 1st year he lost the last 2 games that would have got us to the playoffs. this is some thing that he needs to stop now . i mean with Marvin a we looking at a future dungy or schott always wins except when it counts. or is he a future Superbowl winning coach? i understand all the problems we have had this seasons arrests suspensions injuries. right now i am kinda down on him and it just a build up of issues. excepting piss poor game planing by both brat and bresh is #1. excepting the lack luster effort of some players. what do you guys think ?

[kentjett]

We were horrible for over ten years when marvin came in and we haven't had a losing season in three years. Look how long it take Cowher.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

We were horrible for over ten years when marvin came in and we haven't had a losing season in three years. Look how long it take Cowher.

yeah thats the best example of cowher. and we can only dream marvin has that sort of tenure with us.

[HoTbOy]

I like MLewis, but I think he needs to address the D side of the ball more next year and hire a better D-coordinator...or he will be compared to TDungy in that he was a good D-coordinator but could win the big games as a head coach...I know that TDungy and MLewis likes these smallish DT but they get ran over all the time, the RB's are stronger and faster the small DT just can't block a 350+ O-lineman and make a tackle weighing only 290-300 lbs...

[Bobcat Bengal]

Well, Peko and Geathers are the foundation to build on.

I was pleased with their play this year.

[Storm]

Marvin has made some errors but I think the problem lies with the rest of the coaching staff, Marvin can only do so much, to be successful in any line of business you need solid people around you and thats what this organization lacks is solid people in key positions such as GM, OC, DC, Special Teams Coach, etc.

I think Bratkowski is a very good coach but I'm starting to wonder if he's not trying to pad his stats more than winning to get himself a head coach job somewhere.

[jjakq27]

I think Breshnehan has to go. Period. Let Marvin call the defense.

[cincy9275]

some of my other issues with marvin are his unwillingness to draft or sign quality t/e d-lineman and punt and kickoff returners. drafting player just to take up roster spots fannene nicholson askew brooks. then say if guys don't fair well on special teams then they don't play. how in the hell can he say or do that when he just totally dismisses quality kick and punt returner as a need. all i know is if he does not fire bresh and rebuild this pathetic defense and get all these f**king criminals in line. take this team from a pretender to a title contender. by next season then it's time for him to move on. i know what this team was before he came. and yes he took us out of the gutter. i am very thankful for that. but there is way to much talent on this team for this team to take a huge step backwards like they have this season.

[West Coast Bengal]

9275, you must be kidding me.

I'm giving the guy 5 years. Wwe're lucky we haven't had a losing season after being 2-14 when he showed up.

[cincy9275]

9275, you must be kidding me.

I'm giving the guy 5 years. Wwe're lucky we haven't had a losing season after being 2-14 when he showed up.

next season would be his 5th season. and no i am not kidding.

[CBin2k7]

some of my other issues with marvin are his unwillingness to draft or sign quality t/e d-lineman and punt and kickoff returners. drafting player just to take up roster spots fannene nicholson askew brooks. then say if guys don't fair well on special teams then they don't play. how in the hell can he say or do that when he just totally dismisses quality kick and punt returner as a need. all i know is if he does not fire bresh and rebuild this pathetic defense and get all these f**king criminals in line. take this team from a pretender to a title contender. by next season then it's time for him to move on. i know what this team was before he came. and yes he took us out of the gutter. i am very thankful for that. but there is way to much talent on this team for this team to take a huge step backwards like they have this season.

The d-line was far from the problem this year. They actually played fairly well, compared to past season's. The problem was with the LB's and the secondary. This team may need a quality TE, but they have a pretty good one in Kelly. You won't notice the affect Kelly has on this team until he is gone. He has been a solid blocker and frankly this offense doesn't look much to it's TE position. I expect Kelly to remain along with Stewart (who is good on special teams) I could see them finding a good receiving TE, or I could see them not doing it. The Bengals have a quality kick and punt returner, they are on Injured Reserve with season ending injuries. Tab Perry is one of the better kick returners in the league when healthy, and Antonio Chatman is one of the better punt returners in the league when healthy.

I truly think some Bengal fans overestimate the amount of talent on this team. There is some talent, but there are some glaring limitations, that falls directly on the personnel people.

Marvin has to take the next step and getting this team to perform when the lights go on. He has to get them to be consistent in their approach and game preparation, game planning and game playing. He has to get them to achieve the greatness, they believe they are. He needs some leadership on defense, but the blame for this season is not squarely on the defense. The offense was far too inconsistent as well. You have to find ways to win games, when one side of the ball is not playing well, the Bengals don't do that. He has to get his team to finish the season on a high note. He needs to address his position coaches, we keep hearing about the LB's being out of position...well get on the coach. This year taught this team a valuable lesson, talent is not going to win you every game. Execution and a winning mentality will win you games, it will get you through key injuries, sluggish offense and swiss cheese defense to win football games.

Marvin Lewis is the best coach for this team, He has had them in position for the playoffs for 4 straight seasons. When was the last time that happened to the Bengals. This team has to take that next step, I think they will, next year.

Although, with this season not over yet, I see next year being an explosive season for the Bengals.

[Spain]

Well Marvin is a great coach that hada bad injury year, s**t happens. Smoking pot is cool.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Well Marvin is a great coach that hada bad injury year, s**t happens. Smoking pot is cool.

Hmm, last I checked Odell, Henry, Nicholson and Rucker weren't injured?

He was also 3-5 against winning teams and was 0'fer in prime time games.

Every team has a major injury or two to deal with - hell the Patriots started a rookie RT they took in the fifth round all year and he did great, and they're 11-4.

Personally I don't think Marvin nor his staff did a very good job of coaching this season. Players don't seem motivated half the time, they make a lot of mistakes, they have poor game plans and have a coordinator who's the butt of jokes nationally etc...,

I'm tired of giving Marvin a free pass and blaming his shortcomings on injuries.

I'm not saying he should be fired or given up on by any means, but more should be expected at this point in his tenure here. I'm sure Mike Brown is happy regardless - the guy just wants to make a buck and fill the seats - which is most important to him.

Time to raise your standards Bengals' fans - .500 records don't cut it anymore.

1 playoff game in 4 years is not acceptable to me, given the talent that they have here.

This season was a disappointment, again, all-around.

Marvin has to do a better job next year. If they don't make the playoffs next season and do something worthwhile once there - then I will firmly be on the "fire Marvin now" train I think.

[cincy9275]

yes i know there is more to fault than just marvin. but at the end of the day he is responsible for his coaches and players underachieving. this team this season has consistently made the same mistakes week after week with out being corrected. bottom line is can marvin get this team over the hump or are we going to be consistently a 9-7 or 8-8 team. next season is to me going to be a make it or break it season for marvin because if 8-8 or 9-7 is the best he can do then maybe it's time to look else where. the bengals are starting to remind me of the john cooper days at osu consistently put themselves in a position to do something special only to blow it in big games and that is what marvin has done every time we play in a big must win game we lose. and that more than anything must stop! i really really hope marvin does succeed but mediaocracy can not and should not be excepted be accepted by the fans or by management.

[jjakq27]

The d-line was far from the problem this year. They actually played fairly well, compared to past season's. The problem was with the LB's and the secondary. This team may need a quality TE, but they have a pretty good one in Kelly. You won't notice the affect Kelly has on this team until he is gone. He has been a solid blocker and frankly this offense doesn't look much to it's TE position. I expect Kelly to remain along with Stewart (who is good on special teams) I could see them finding a good receiving TE, or I could see them not doing it. The Bengals have a quality kick and punt returner, they are on Injured Reserve with season ending injuries. Tab Perry is one of the better kick returners in the league when healthy, and Antonio Chatman is one of the better punt returners in the league when healthy.

I truly think some Bengal fans overestimate the amount of talent on this team. There is some talent, but there are some glaring limitations, that falls directly on the personnel people.

Marvin has to take the next step and getting this team to perform when the lights go on. He has to get them to be consistent in their approach and game preparation, game planning and game playing. He has to get them to achieve the greatness, they believe they are. He needs some leadership on defense, but the blame for this season is not squarely on the defense. The offense was far too inconsistent as well. You have to find ways to win games, when one side of the ball is not playing well, the Bengals don't do that. He has to get his team to finish the season on a high note. He needs to address his position coaches, we keep hearing about the LB's being out of position...well get on the coach. This year taught this team a valuable lesson, talent is not going to win you every game. Execution and a winning mentality will win you games, it will get you through key injuries, sluggish offense and swiss cheese defense to win football games.

Marvin Lewis is the best coach for this team, He has had them in position for the playoffs for 4 straight seasons. When was the last time that happened to the Bengals. This team has to take that next step, I think they will, next year.

Although, with this season not over yet, I see next year being an explosive season for the Bengals.

Excellent post. I agree with all you have said.

I still have concerns about the seemingly passive defensive scheme however. A little more bump-and-run coverage might slow down the easy pickings on 3rd down.

This team reminds me of the mid-80's Bengals where they had pieces and they flashed brilliantly but often lost because of fluky plays, assignment errors or lack of composure in the clutch. While Marvin is not the volatile personality that Sam Wyche was, I believe that there is an undercurrent that keeps this team for reaching or even approaching it's potential each week. I just don't feel the cohesiveness with this group. The losses may have done that or maybe there are too many factions.

If we do not make the playoffs, I hope we finish on a high note by winning on Sunday. Maybe the near miss of this season will make them hungry next year. A loss would make it a much tougher off-season.

[Coy Bacon & Egg]

I thnk we've seen what ML does best -- do a changeover on a franchise's self-image and attitude and culture. He has transformed the Bengals, and gets credit for that. Credit also to the front office for letting him do it.

I think we now have enough evidence to have areas of legitimate concern where ML is concerned. He hasn't gotten the D figured out, and that's with four years to do it, thru 2 D coordinators, much cycling of players, and some good acquisitions and some bad. End result is a D that is decidedly not playoff caliber, that too often seems to make it easy on opposing offenses, doesn't seem hard to scheme for, and can't get off the field on third downs in big games. While it may unfair to have expected the Super Bowl Ravens D reincarnated here by now, I think everyone would agree this D is way behind schedule.

On offense, fewer complaints obviously, but that's where most of the salary money has gone, they had the benefit of drafting Palmer (hey, they got that one right), and inherited some solid players. I do believe that when the Bengals O is "clicking," it's because their great players are making great plays... It's less about some wonderful scheme that can't be stopped. I therefore beleive that a good offense could be devastating but the O coordinator has taken this group as far as he can. This is not the Colts or the Rams of a few years ago, no matter what you hear. They don't click as often as they do - we just hear about it when they do.

Special Teams: It used to be horrific, now it's middle of the road. Doesn't really help or hurt the team. I credit the coaching staff for identifying and staying with Graham and Larson, and for putting a premium on having good ST players on the squad... always refreshing to see them make good ST plays. But the next step up is for the teams to start making plays that win games, as opposed to not lose them. How about blocking some kicks? How about some big returns? Am I being greedy? Depends on whether you want ST to be part of your championship formula. Time to raise those expectations now, IMO.

Intangibles: I'm not going to crucify ML for the off-the-field stuff as much as some. I'm less worried about that than this propensity to be their own worst enemy on the field, or in game prep, or the apparent lack of any meaningful in-game adjustments. Many on this and other boards have thrown the "outcoached" tag out there. I think that's valid. In the past it was a given, and it didn't really matter since the whole franchise/team was so bad... the games themselves didn't really matter. Now they do matter, so we have a right to be more exacting in our expectations. I would expect ML and staff to feel the same way. For the record, I don't like the way ML handles himself with the press (much as I don't respect the press). He is defensive and arrogant and immature, and while there may be no way to really address the disappointing times to everyone's satisfaction, I know "bad" when I see it, and ML usually delivers that way after bad losses. He acts like the long-suffering fans of this franchise don't deserve any insight or answers or honest assessments. He doesn't seem to engage in much self-evaluation (just like the team doesn't appear to self-scout much). In this respect, I think he's lost his humility somewhat.

All in all, he's lifted the franchise, and that's the challenge he was asked to take on. Now the seasons and games matter. Can he take the next step? Time will tell. Calling for his ouster or putting him on some timetable is ridiculous, but I have no idea whether his "accountability" mandate applies to himself or his staff. That will be interesting to see in the months ahead. And next year does set up for a real run if they can get things fixed.

[HoTbOy]

I think Breshnehan has to go. Period. Let Marvin call the defense.

I would like that... and we all appreciate what MLewis has done, but until he addressess the D-side of the ball we will be da Colts pt.2 good o, but no D...I want to keep MLewis but he does need to make changes on his staff...the D-line was pretty good this year like someone said the LB's and 2ndary is what killed us...

[cincy9275]

if marvin does not get this team over the hump then how long do let him underachieve? the window of opportunity gets smaller and smaller every year you don't make it. if he does not improve this staff and team and fails to make a deep playoff run next season then yes it's time for him to move on. ten years from now i don't want to look back at this team and say damn what could have been i want a championship anything less is unacceptable. if he can't do i want someone who can !

[Jet23]

I wasn't crazy about the Indy game plan, and I hate to say this, but Carson was terrible the past two games. If he even has a decent day, the Bengals smoke Denver by 3 scores. And until CJ steps it up in big games, he needs to shut the heck up.

For my money, TJ seems to be the only big game guy that we have. I am just tired of waiting for them to give away big games. Let's face it, even if they made the PAT, I am sure I wasn't the only one waiting for a 60-yard kick return setting them up for Elam to win it in regulation.

The only good thing that came from that game was that Carson drove them in clutch time.

[Bengalhead]

Well Marvin is a great coach that hada bad injury year, s**t happens. Smoking pot is cool.

[Stripes]

Hmm, last I checked Odell, Henry, Nicholson and Rucker weren't injured?

I'll give you Odell and Henry, though it's stupid to blame Marvin for their idiocy. Nicholson is a special teamer, and I don't see why you'd bring him into this discussion. Rucker was on IR in the preseason!

He was also 3-5 against winning teams and was 0'fer in prime time games.

The Ravens game was primetime, and "last I checked," the Bengals won.

Every team has a major injury or two to deal with - hell the Patriots started a rookie RT they took in the fifth round all year and he did great, and they're 11-4.

No team aside from the New York Giants has had the injury bug like Cincy this year, and they've had a nearly identical season to our own. The Patriots are the exception, not the rule. They do that every year.

Personally I don't think Marvin nor his staff did a very good job of coaching this season. Players don't seem motivated half the time, they make a lot of mistakes, they have poor game plans and have a coordinator who's the butt of jokes nationally etc...,

I'm tired of giving Marvin a free pass and blaming his shortcomings on injuries.

I'm not saying he should be fired or given up on by any means, but more should be expected at this point in his tenure here. I'm sure Mike Brown is happy regardless - the guy just wants to make a buck and fill the seats - which is most important to him.

Time to raise your standards Bengals' fans - .500 records don't cut it anymore.

1 playoff game in 4 years is not acceptable to me, given the talent that they have here.

This season was a disappointment, again, all-around.

Marvin has to do a better job next year. If they don't make the playoffs next season and do something worthwhile once there - then I will firmly be on the "fire Marvin now" train I think.

Nobody is happy with a .500 record anymore than you are. We all had major expectations for this season, but there have been circumstances beyond Marvin's control that you can't just toss aside for the sake of being grumpy.

[Bengalhead]

The d-line was far from the problem this year. They actually played fairly well, compared to past season's. The problem was with the LB's and the secondary. This team may need a quality TE, but they have a pretty good one in Kelly. You won't notice the affect Kelly has on this team until he is gone. He has been a solid blocker and frankly this offense doesn't look much to it's TE position. I expect Kelly to remain along with Stewart (who is good on special teams) I could see them finding a good receiving TE, or I could see them not doing it. The Bengals have a quality kick and punt returner, they are on Injured Reserve with season ending injuries. Tab Perry is one of the better kick returners in the league when healthy, and Antonio Chatman is one of the better punt returners in the league when healthy.

I truly think some Bengal fans overestimate the amount of talent on this team. There is some talent, but there are some glaring limitations, that falls directly on the personnel people.

Marvin has to take the next step and getting this team to perform when the lights go on. He has to get them to be consistent in their approach and game preparation, game planning and game playing. He has to get them to achieve the greatness, they believe they are. He needs some leadership on defense, but the blame for this season is not squarely on the defense. The offense was far too inconsistent as well. You have to find ways to win games, when one side of the ball is not playing well, the Bengals don't do that. He has to get his team to finish the season on a high note. He needs to address his position coaches, we keep hearing about the LB's being out of position...well get on the coach. This year taught this team a valuable lesson, talent is not going to win you every game. Execution and a winning mentality will win you games, it will get you through key injuries, sluggish offense and swiss cheese defense to win football games.

Marvin Lewis is the best coach for this team, He has had them in position for the playoffs for 4 straight seasons. When was the last time that happened to the Bengals. This team has to take that next step, I think they will, next year.

Although, with this season not over yet, I see next year being an explosive season for the Bengals.

Excellent post. I agree with all you have said.

I still have concerns about the seemingly passive defensive scheme however. A little more bump-and-run coverage might slow down the easy pickings on 3rd down.

This team reminds me of the mid-80's Bengals where they had pieces and they flashed brilliantly but often lost because of fluky plays, assignment errors or lack of composure in the clutch. While Marvin is not the volatile personality that Sam Wyche was, I believe that there is an undercurrent that keeps this team for reaching or even approaching it's potential each week. I just don't feel the cohesiveness with this group. The losses may have done that or maybe there are too many factions.

If we do not make the playoffs, I hope we finish on a high note by winning on Sunday. Maybe the near miss of this season will make them hungry next year. A loss would make it a much tougher off-season.

Good post. To me, lack of composure sums up their biggest problems over the last two years. When the team needed guys to step up and make the big/game changing plays when the pressure was on, they collapsed like a house of cards. That explains (to me) why they continue to lose games despite the high amount of talent they put on the field.

[jjakq27]

I think we now have enough evidence to have areas of legitimate concern where ML is concerned. He hasn't gotten the D figured out, and that's with four years to do it, thru 2 D coordinators, much cycling of players, and some good acquisitions and some bad. End result is a D that is decidedly not playoff caliber, that too often seems to make it easy on opposing offenses, doesn't seem hard to scheme for, and can't get off the field on third downs in big games. While it may unfair to have expected the Super Bowl Ravens D reincarnated here by now, I think everyone would agree this D is way behind schedule......

.....All in all, he's lifted the franchise, and that's the challenge he was asked to take on. Now the seasons and games matter. Can he take the next step? Time will tell. Calling for his ouster or putting him on some timetable is ridiculous, but I have no idea whether his "accountability" mandate applies to himself or his staff. That will be interesting to see in the months ahead. And next year does set up for a real run if they can get things fixed.

Remember that the Ravens finally put it together in 2000 which was Marvin's 4th or 5th year with the team, so it took some time. And as with many coaches, you always look like a genius when you have stars making plays. Kevin Greene and Greg Lloyd in Pittsburgh and Ray Lewis in Baltimore were game changers for their teams while Marvin was there. Honestly who fits the title on this defense? Dexter? Landon? Kaes? Geathers? Not exactly superstar caliber guys. I think we all believed that Odell or David Pollack could be that person but sadly we will probably never know.

I will give ML the benefit of the doubt in a lot of areas. But I will be critical if some type of coaching change is not made. I know some of these guys are his friends but I think it is time to evaluate the entire system including the coaches.

Maybe when the season is over, we will hear the real truth about what was happening. Then we might realize that he did a great job keeping it all together. We shall see.