Playoff Possiblities and Scenarios

[delhole]

Time for the bold statement of the day. I've seen a few pundits and a few posters predict us winning out the last 4, finishing 11-5, and getting a wild card spot. Well, it won't happen. If we finish 11-5, we won't make the wildcard, we will WIN THE DIVISION!

I think we will go 4-0 to end the season BUT there's only a very slight chance we could win the division. Look at the Ravens remaining schedule. I have them losing to the Chiefs next week but then they have cleveland and pittsburgh back to back. They HAVE to lose one of those two games for us to get the divison. Even if they lose to Buffalo in the final week plus lose at Kansas City and go 11-5, they still beat us in the tie-breaker which will come down to win % in common games since they will have the same conf. and div. records and the head-to-head is equal. Only way bengals win the division is if they get some help from the poop stains or the piss stains..........

[Tasher]

Time for the bold statement of the day. I've seen a few pundits and a few posters predict us winning out the last 4, finishing 11-5, and getting a wild card spot. Well, it won't happen. If we finish 11-5, we won't make the wildcard, we will WIN THE DIVISION!

I think we will go 4-0 to end the season BUT there's only a very slight chance we could win the division. Look at the Ravens remaining schedule. I have them losing to the Chiefs next week but then they have cleveland and pittsburgh back to back. They HAVE to lose one of those two games for us to get the divison. Even if they lose to Buffalo in the final week plus lose at Kansas City and go 11-5, they still beat us in the tie-breaker which will come down to win % in common games since they will have the same conf. and div. records and the head-to-head is equal. Only way bengals win the division is if they get some help from the poop stains or the piss stains..........

Marvin in his press conf today said that the goal was to win the next 4 and if we do that we will win the division. Not an exact quote, but go watch the webcast on bengals.com and see for yourself.

[jjakq27]

I read that only the Raiders and the Lions have been eliminated from postseason play so far. However this could be a big weekend for teams like Indy, New England and San Diego if things go their way. They could all clinch their division depending on how the games go this weekend. The Ravens need a win a losses by three teams including the Bengals to clinch a wild card spot.

http://sportsline.com/nfl/playoffrace/scenarios

[duus]

I read that only the Raiders and the Lions have been eliminated from postseason play so far. However this could be a big weekend for teams like Indy, New England and San Diego if things go their way. They could all clinch their division depending on how the games go this weekend. The Ravens need a win a losses by three teams including the Bengals to clinch a wild card spot.

http://sportsline.com/nfl/playoffrace/scenarios

I love the fact that the Ravens had an opportunity to clinch the division with 4 weeks to go, but now may very well have to wait until the final week, if they even win it at all. Too funny.

[jjakq27]

Hey, a full scale collapse on their part would be kinda fun.

[schweinhart]

Can't remember the last time a defensed ranked 3rd in total defense had a 2-10 record.

Well, total defense is based on yards allowed. Looks at my favorite Stat That Matters, points, and you'll find the Raiders rank 14th in points allowed. Number 13? That would be the Cincinnati Bengals.

And the reason that the Oakland Raiders allow so few yards?

They give up the ball on offense so the opponents do not have to go so far to score. Very bad combination.

I've never liked total defense stat because it doesn't tell the full story of how a defense is performing. While there is no perfect stat, I like yards/points allowed. The higher the number, the harder (i.e. more yards) the opposing team needs to work in order to score a point. Despite the Raiders ranking 3rd in total defense and 14th in points allowed, the ratio of the two puts them at 28th in the league. Basically, the Raiders offense is constantly giving the other team a short field to work with whether through a turnover or punt. The opposing team doesn't have to work hard to put up points. When the opposing team doesn't have to work hard and your offense is not able to keep you in the game, I'd expect a 2 - 10 kind of season.

This pretty much boils it down -- the Raiders blow. Try as one may (and it ain't gonna be a Raiders fan apparently) there's just no viability in forecasting that the Raiders have a chance in this one. Still the NFL and all but it sure seems like it would take a perfect game by the Raiders offense and a near perfect game by an extremely fast defense to keep this one under the bloodbath threshold.

Or a combination of that and the Bengals imploding on both sides of the ball and special teams. Just too much has to go wrong for the Bengals for them not to get a W. And I hope the defense is anxious for this one...anxious to prove to themselves that they can continue to keep teams from scoring points even if those teams have poor offenses. They will need that confidence riding into Indy.

Bengals 27 Raiders 13 and may the playoff possibilities threads continue to march on.

[Tasher]

Okay, here is the full quote:

"This is the one we got dealt. It's what we earned. It'll be good. We get to play great football for the next four weeks. We've got to win four games. If we win four games, I think we'll have accomplished one of our first goals, and that's win the division. So we'll keep pressure on them. That's the thing we've got to do. We've got to win four games. Not worry about anything else. Just win one game at a time the next four games. I think things will take care of itself." -- Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, looking ahead at the last month of the season for his 7-5 team.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/CIN/9855756

This tells me that the team is still squarely focused on winning the division. Until that is an impossibility, that is what I am focused on too. Besides, if we shoot for the division, the WC will take care of itself if we can't win the division.

[delhole]

Okay, here is the full quote:

"This is the one we got dealt. It's what we earned. It'll be good. We get to play great football for the next four weeks. We've got to win four games. If we win four games, I think we'll have accomplished one of our first goals, and that's win the division. So we'll keep pressure on them. That's the thing we've got to do. We've got to win four games. Not worry about anything else. Just win one game at a time the next four games. I think things will take care of itself." -- Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, looking ahead at the last month of the season for his 7-5 team.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/CIN/9855756

This tells me that the team is still squarely focused on winning the division. Until that is an impossibility, that is what I am focused on too. Besides, if we shoot for the division, the WC will take care of itself if we can't win the division.

Winning the division isn't happening unless the ravens have a major melt down and lose to the browns or steelers plus lose to either buffalo or kansas city plus bengals win out. I see 2 parts of that scenario happening but not all 3. But I'll take a wild card anyday

[duus]

Winning the division isn't happening unless the ravens have a major melt down and lose to the browns or steelers plus lose to either buffalo or kansas city plus bengals win out. I see 2 parts of that scenario happening but not all 3. But I'll take a wild card anyday

But you have to love Marvin's perspective and focus here. Basically, he is saying to his team that the division title is still within reach, but we have to maintain perfection over the next month. A tall task, but IF we do it, then we'll be the best off we could be. Funny also that he is implicitly predicting that the Ravens will lose 2 of 4. KC and Pissburgh? Two road games. Possible. Imagine, if you will, that the Bengals beat the Raiders and Colts, and that the Ravens lose this week to the Chiefs, yet beat the Browns. That's a one game lead, fellas. You don't think everyone will be crowded around their televisions rooting for the Black-N-Urine then? I think that is the scenario he is trying to get guys to look forward to. Can't blame him for trying to keep the focus on needing to win EVERY game. I like it, even if it doesn't work out that way.

[delhole]

Winning the division isn't happening unless the ravens have a major melt down and lose to the browns or steelers plus lose to either buffalo or kansas city plus bengals win out. I see 2 parts of that scenario happening but not all 3. But I'll take a wild card anyday

But you have to love Marvin's perspective and focus here. Basically, he is saying to his team that the division title is still within reach, but we have to maintain perfection over the next month. A tall task, but IF we do it, then we'll be the best off we could be. Funny also that he is implicitly predicting that the Ravens will lose 2 of 4. KC and Pissburgh? Two road games. Possible. Imagine, if you will, that the Bengals beat the Raiders and Colts, and that the Ravens lose this week to the Chiefs, yet beat the Browns. That's a one game lead, fellas. You don't think everyone will be crowded around their televisions rooting for the Black-N-Urine then? I think that is the scenario he is trying to get guys to look forward to. Can't blame him for trying to keep the focus on needing to win EVERY game. I like it, even if it doesn't work out that way.

Oh there's no doubt I like the attitude of Marvin Lewis and the whole bengals team right now. They are focused and know they have what it takes to win out the season. Earlier in the season I didn't see any of this. All I'm saying is they will need help to win the division, that's the only way.

[jjakq27]

Oh there's no doubt I like the attitude of Marvin Lewis and the whole bengals team right now. They are focused and know they have what it takes to win out the season. Earlier in the season I didn't see any of this.

I think that many of the guys finally realized that Pollack, Odell, Simmons, Levi and Richie, etc. were not coming back right away or at all and that they needed to step up. They beat the Steelers in week 3 and I think folks thought it was going to be a cakewalk the rest of the way.

However guys like Caleb Miller, Landon Johnson, Peko, Joseph, Whitworth and even Ghiaciuc really elevated their level of play and it shows. Obviously Palmer has regained his touch and it shows also.

I think things could have imploded after they blew the San Diego game. I know in the past we would be discussing coaching candidates to replace the HC. So Marvin and the staff deserve a ton of praise to have us in this position.

[derekshank]

However guys like Caleb Miller, Landon Johnson, Peko, Joseph, Whitworth and even Ghiaciuc really elevated their level of play and it shows. Obviously Palmer has regained his touch and it shows also.

Yep... Caleb Miller right now is playing better than Odell ever did. He may not have the physical ability to be a high impact player for us long term... but he's playing at a very high level right now.

Sam Adams and Jeanty are also playing the run very strong... which is probably one of the main reasons that Miller has been able to play so well. He's disciplined, he's fast, and he's a sure tackler. When the guys around him are doing their jobs, it makes him look really good.

[Kazkal]

We very well could be the steelers of last year wildcard seed knocking off a division foe ....hey! we gotta bring chad home! sense he is from miami and all

That'd be fine by me. Suddenly all the "fluke" talk Steelers fans heard all offseason would seem rather silly, eh?

only thing i saw fluke in their post season was carson going down 11-5 very well could have been the 3rd seed.

[duus]

Nah. Fluke should never have been mentioned UNTIL the season they are having now. Fluke was not to be applied based upon them winning it last year. I never used that word ... until now. Until they have proven to us by their performance this year that last year's run was a complete fluke.

[derekshank]

My Wild Card predictions after week 14... It will basically be down to a 3-team race.

8-5 Bengals (W over Oakland)

8-5 Chiefs (W over Baltimore)

8-5 Jets (W over Buffalo)

7-6 Broncos (L to San Diego)

7-6 Jaguars (L to Indianapolis)

If it works out like this, the Bengals are still in the best position to win the wild card, as well as decent position in the AFC North, with Baltimore having only a 1-game lead (although the Wild Card still seems like the only reasonable expecation).

P.S. If I am right on everything but the Ravens game... we are almost assured of the playoffs. Only the Bengals and Jets will be 8-5, and I don't expect the Chiefs, Broncos, or Jaguars to win out... and we have most tie-breakers. It could be a very good week for the Bengals one way or another.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Also... here's another write-up I read on the Bengals LB situation. This guy appears to be a fairly big Caleb fan.

Brian Simmons returned to action in week 13 and made it through the game without any problems. However he didn't and may never return to the starting role. Caleb Miller got the start against Baltimore and turned in another impressive performance. He has come a long way since his rookie campaign in '04 when he looked lost and overmatched. Miller has become much more physical and comfortable, his presence has a great deal to do with the Bengals defensive success over the past two games. Nothing has been made official at this point but it sure looks as if Miller could be the man in the middle of this defense for a long time to come. The club is not at all happy with Odell Thurman who has been suspended all season for not one but two bone head incidents and there is speculation that this could be the final season for Simmons in Cincinnati. Even if he remains, Simmons is not best suited to play in the middle.

[HoosierCat]

Games of interest next week...

Sunday, Dec. 10

Baltimore (9-3) at KC (7-5) 1pm

Indianapolis (10-2) at Jacksonville (7-5) 1pm

New England (9-3) at Miami (5-7) 1pm

Oakland (2-10) at Cincinnati (7-5) 1pm

Buffalo (5-7) at NY Jets (7-5) 4:15pm

Denver (7-5) at San Diego (10-2) 4:15pm

It will be interesting to see how things fall out this week.

Obviously, the game against Oakland is key. The Bengals cannot afford to drop this one, not with the last three games they've got. If they do, say buh-bye to the playoffs.

But let's assume a win, so...

NE/Miami and Buffalo/NYJ are intertwined. If the Pats win and the Jets lose, NE clinches the AFCE crown. This would be great from the Bengals' perspective, since it pushes the Jets down in the WC race and assures that NE, which has a head-to-head tiebreaker over us, can't fall into the WC picture. Unfortunately, I'm not confident that NE can win tomorrow. The Pats looked like crap at home versus Detroit. The Bills, on the other hand, have been hanging tough against top competition. My picks are Buffalo and Miami here.

SD/Denver and KC/Baltimore are similarly linked. If SD wins and KC loses, SD wins the west crown, wich is good for us since they too would have the head-to-head win if they slid back into the WC race. Unfortunately that would mean a Baltimore win as well, which I think all but mathematically gives the Ravens the AFCN title. In these two, I think SD pounds Denver into mush, but KC pulls out a must-win at home.

Indy versus Jax: an Indy win here gives them the division title, but Jax will be a tough opponent. I have zero confidence in the Indy D. I want an Indy win, but I have a sinking feeling that Jax will pull off the upset.

So by Monday, I think the AFC WC race is between us, KC and Jax, all tied at 8-5. KC is the odd man out (on AFC record tiebreaker), we stay in the 5 seed slot and are 1 game behind 9-4 Baltimore, and Jax replaces the Jets as the final WC.

[cooz19]

Games of interest next week...

Sunday, Dec. 10

Baltimore (9-3) at KC (7-5) 1pm

Indianapolis (10-2) at Jacksonville (7-5) 1pm

New England (9-3) at Miami (5-7) 1pm

Oakland (2-10) at Cincinnati (7-5) 1pm

Buffalo (5-7) at NY Jets (7-5) 4:15pm

Denver (7-5) at San Diego (10-2) 4:15pm

It will be interesting to see how things fall out this week.

Obviously, the game against Oakland is key. The Bengals cannot afford to drop this one, not with the last three games they've got. If they do, say buh-bye to the playoffs.

But let's assume a win, so...

NE/Miami and Buffalo/NYJ are intertwined. If the Pats win and the Jets lose, NE clinches the AFCE crown. This would be great from the Bengals' perspective, since it pushes the Jets down in the WC race and assures that NE, which has a head-to-head tiebreaker over us, can't fall into the WC picture. Unfortunately, I'm not confident that NE can win tomorrow. The Pats looked like crap at home versus Detroit. The Bills, on the other hand, have been hanging tough against top competition. My picks are Buffalo and Miami here.

SD/Denver and KC/Baltimore are similarly linked. If SD wins and KC loses, SD wins the west crown, wich is good for us since they too would have the head-to-head win if they slid back into the WC race. Unfortunately that would mean a Baltimore win as well, which I think all but mathematically gives the Ravens the AFCN title. In these two, I think SD pounds Denver into mush, but KC pulls out a must-win at home.

Indy versus Jax: an Indy win here gives them the division title, but Jax will be a tough opponent. I have zero confidence in the Indy D. I want an Indy win, but I have a sinking feeling that Jax will pull off the upset.

So by Monday, I think the AFC WC race is between us, KC and Jax, all tied at 8-5. KC is the odd man out (on AFC record tiebreaker), we stay in the 5 seed slot and are 1 game behind 9-4 Baltimore, and Jax replaces the Jets as the final WC.

Even as a Steelers fan, I'm sorry, but it makes me laugh to look over this site and read 1,000 word "What-If" scenarios involving Cincinnati's playoff chances. Maybe they make the playoffs, honestly, I feel they probably will - and with the amount of smack you guys talked, throwing the word "fluke" around like it actually applies in the NFL - you damn well better. But it's impossible to want to root for your team. You hate Pittsburgh, and that's fine. You probably hate Baltimore as well, which I enjoy. But really, of those three teams, only one of them has a rap sheet so disgusting and offensive, the NFL likely will begin to crack down even more players who refuse to abide by the law.

I understand and respect your support for your team (there are some of you who might have rooted for this team once or twice before The Messiah Carson Palmer headed there). But speaking for the rest of the decent fans in the NFL, do everyone a favor and stop acting as if your team deserves any modicum of success. No team in football deserves to fail more than the 2006 Cincinnati Bengals.

And that's not hate, don't fool yourself into thinking this has anything to do with the alleged rivalry you have with Pittsburgh. Write a letter to your owner requesting him to re-think his pesonnel decisions, because it seems to be there is a team not far from yours who wins without one arrested player.

[buck3y3d]

Well, apparently you haven't read this board very much, or you would realize that most of the fans are pretty upset with our criminal situation.

However, if you are such a moral person, please denounce your Super Bowls from your glory days, go to the Chargers website and speak of their lack of morality (which is far worse than the Bengals), and I also would like to know what team near here wins without arrested players? The only thing PIT does these days is lose.

[HoosierCat]

But speaking for the rest of the decent fans in the NFL,

Nothin' funnier that a Pitt fan "speaking for the rest of the decent fans."

Yeah. Let's see, wasn't it Pitt fans making death threats against a little old lady after Big Bum's motorcycle crack-up? Yeah, I think it was.

[LesterLyles]

Well, apparently you haven't read this board very much, or you would realize that most of the fans are pretty upset with our criminal situation.

However, if you are such a moral person, please denounce your Super Bowls from your glory days, go to the Chargers website and speak of their lack of morality (which is far worse than the Bengals), and I also would like to know what team near here wins without arrested players? The only thing PIT does these days is lose.

Steeler fans are the scum of the NFL!!!

[membengal]

Games of interest next week...

Sunday, Dec. 10

Baltimore (9-3) at KC (7-5) 1pm

Indianapolis (10-2) at Jacksonville (7-5) 1pm

New England (9-3) at Miami (5-7) 1pm

Oakland (2-10) at Cincinnati (7-5) 1pm

Buffalo (5-7) at NY Jets (7-5) 4:15pm

Denver (7-5) at San Diego (10-2) 4:15pm

It will be interesting to see how things fall out this week.

Obviously, the game against Oakland is key. The Bengals cannot afford to drop this one, not with the last three games they've got. If they do, say buh-bye to the playoffs.

But let's assume a win, so...

NE/Miami and Buffalo/NYJ are intertwined. If the Pats win and the Jets lose, NE clinches the AFCE crown. This would be great from the Bengals' perspective, since it pushes the Jets down in the WC race and assures that NE, which has a head-to-head tiebreaker over us, can't fall into the WC picture. Unfortunately, I'm not confident that NE can win tomorrow. The Pats looked like crap at home versus Detroit. The Bills, on the other hand, have been hanging tough against top competition. My picks are Buffalo and Miami here.

SD/Denver and KC/Baltimore are similarly linked. If SD wins and KC loses, SD wins the west crown, wich is good for us since they too would have the head-to-head win if they slid back into the WC race. Unfortunately that would mean a Baltimore win as well, which I think all but mathematically gives the Ravens the AFCN title. In these two, I think SD pounds Denver into mush, but KC pulls out a must-win at home.

Indy versus Jax: an Indy win here gives them the division title, but Jax will be a tough opponent. I have zero confidence in the Indy D. I want an Indy win, but I have a sinking feeling that Jax will pull off the upset.

So by Monday, I think the AFC WC race is between us, KC and Jax, all tied at 8-5. KC is the odd man out (on AFC record tiebreaker), we stay in the 5 seed slot and are 1 game behind 9-4 Baltimore, and Jax replaces the Jets as the final WC.

Even as a Steelers fan, I'm sorry, but it makes me laugh to look over this site and read 1,000 word "What-If" scenarios involving Cincinnati's playoff chances. Maybe they make the playoffs, honestly, I feel they probably will - and with the amount of smack you guys talked, throwing the word "fluke" around like it actually applies in the NFL - you damn well better. But it's impossible to want to root for your team. You hate Pittsburgh, and that's fine. You probably hate Baltimore as well, which I enjoy. But really, of those three teams, only one of them has a rap sheet so disgusting and offensive, the NFL likely will begin to crack down even more players who refuse to abide by the law.

I understand and respect your support for your team (there are some of you who might have rooted for this team once or twice before The Messiah Carson Palmer headed there). But speaking for the rest of the decent fans in the NFL, do everyone a favor and stop acting as if your team deserves any modicum of success. No team in football deserves to fail more than the 2006 Cincinnati Bengals.

And that's not hate, don't fool yourself into thinking this has anything to do with the alleged rivalry you have with Pittsburgh. Write a letter to your owner requesting him to re-think his pesonnel decisions, because it seems to be there is a team not far from yours who wins without one arrested player.

Run along, child, it's past your bedtime. Grownups are talking now, and have no time for your nonsense.

Check back in April when your team is relevant again...

[jjakq27]

So predictable.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

Well, apparently you haven't read this board very much, or you would realize that most of the fans are pretty upset with our criminal situation.

However, if you are such a moral person, please denounce your Super Bowls from your glory days, go to the Chargers website and speak of their lack of morality (which is far worse than the Bengals), and I also would like to know what team near here wins without arrested players? The only thing PIT does these days is lose.

Steeler fans are the scum of the NFL!!!

lester good to see you back, sorry our teams are going against each other for the wild card. hope you guys make it with us.

[101Airborne]

Even as a Steelers fan, I'm sorry, but it makes me laugh to look over this site and read 1,000 word "What-If" scenarios involving Cincinnati's playoff chances. Maybe they make the playoffs, honestly, I feel they probably will - and with the amount of smack you guys talked, throwing the word "fluke" around like it actually applies in the NFL - you damn well better. But it's impossible to want to root for your team. You hate Pittsburgh, and that's fine. You probably hate Baltimore as well, which I enjoy. But really, of those three teams, only one of them has a rap sheet so disgusting and offensive, the NFL likely will begin to crack down even more players who refuse to abide by the law.

I understand and respect your support for your team (there are some of you who might have rooted for this team once or twice before The Messiah Carson Palmer headed there). But speaking for the rest of the decent fans in the NFL, do everyone a favor and stop acting as if your team deserves any modicum of success. No team in football deserves to fail more than the 2006 Cincinnati Bengals.

And that's not hate, don't fool yourself into thinking this has anything to do with the alleged rivalry you have with Pittsburgh. Write a letter to your owner requesting him to re-think his pesonnel decisions, because it seems to be there is a team not far from yours who wins without one arrested player.

What amuses me is fans all around the league looking at the Bengal's arrests and shaking their heads and pointing fingers when there are boatloads of arrests every year on teams across the league. How often do you hear about Chargers players being arrested when you turn on the tv? I'm by no means defending bad conduct by players but this is rediculous. So, Palmer and Chad and Housh deserve to lose because a few of their teammates act like idiots? That's a poor attitude that reflects your one-sided view of a rival team.

What's more, some of those troubles you talk about are marginal infractions at best. How about you hop over to the Chargers boards an tell them ow horrible it is they have a winning record. In another thread DC_Bengals_Fan wrote: "Cletis Gordon (DUI), Steve Foley (DUI, shot by cops), Terrence Kiel (drug trafficking...codeine!), Shaun Phillips (scuffle with a cop), all I can come up with now but I know there were more than that. Of course Merriman was suspended for juice."

So I shouldn't fool myself into thinking it has ANYTHING at all to do with hate for my team eh? Sorry but I don't buy it. You have one whole post dedicated to telling us fans how our team desveres to lose. First you say you respect our support for our team and then turn around and say we should quit acting like our team deserves to win? Could you possibly contradict yourself more?

Lastly:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/PIT/9588412

"Steelers T Brooks arrested for traffic violations

NFL.com wire reports

PITTSBURGH (Aug. 6, 2006) -- Steelers tackle Barrett Brooks was arrested after police said he fled from them on motorcycle.

The 34-year-old offensive lineman was charged with fleeing and eluding, reckless driving, driving at an unsafe speed and other traffic violations. He was taken to Allegheny County Jail, police Sgt. Dennis Washington said."

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/06/20/Bucs/Ste..._pick_is_.shtml

"Steelers top pick is arrested again

By Wire services

Published June 20, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Pittsburgh Steelers receiver Santonio Holmes pleaded not guilty Monday to charges of assaulting a woman, his second arrest since he was chosen in the first round of the NFL draft."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06050/658002.stm

"Sports Briefs: Steelers' Essex is arrested

Sunday, February 19, 2006

From local and wire dispatches

Steelers backup offensive tackle Trai Essex was arrested after a fight outside a South Beach night club in Miami early yesterday morning for disorderly conduct and resisting an officer without violence, the Miami Herald reported."

You didn't state which team near ours wins without any arrests but it sure isn't the Steelers since they have at least 4 arrests this year and do not have a winning record...

[LesterLyles]

[