C. Perry impact

[SkinneymulleT]

2 carries! Did he get hurt again? Saw him in early but not later.

[skyline]

No, he was around the entire game. I was happy with his play for his first action with the team in who knows how long.

That first 3rd down conversion he gave us was huge.

[schweinhart]

Perry shot out of the slot on that quick hitter so fast I thought it was Chatman at first glance. And the ball had some steam on it, which exemplifies how good Perry can be as a receiver rather than a RB. He did a good job in the split backfield w/ Watson in the 4th on the shovel past to almost get another 1st on 3rd and long. I'd like to see more of the split backfield w/ Perry and a 3WR set because there will be a mismatch and the time shortens to find it w/ 4 receiving options to the point that an overload blitz can't get to Carson in time w/ just 5 on the line and a blocker in the backfield.

We'll see how Henry fits back into the plans soon enough but I'd almost rather let Perry line up in the slot on straight 3 WRs set for now to give him more reps at it. Hard to keep Henry off the field as good as he is but the Bengals got to have another option ready in Perry if Dopey dopes it up again.

[membengal]

3 catches, 26 yards. That right there helps to make a weakness a strength, as his presence adds back in the missing dimension of change-of-pace back out of the backfield.

And, that is off of two practices. He will get in game shape as the year unfolds...

[schweinhart]

3 catches, 26 yards. That right there helps to make a weakness a strength, as his presence adds back in the missing dimension of change-of-pace back out of the backfield.

Thar right there has more to do w/ his ability as a receiver. The Bengals should not use Perry as a change-of-pace back. Pure and simple. If there's running with the ball to be done, it should be done w/ Rudi. How much more will it take for him to demonstrate that? Perry can't run worth a spit from the backfield, between the tackles or out on the edges.

[derekshank]

He's clearly a lot better than Watson at running that shovel pass play on 3rd and long. He came up only a yard short... and if he manages to get that 1st down, we're talking about it as one of the big plays of the game.

[schweinhart]

He's clearly a lot better than Watson at running that shovel pass play on 3rd and long. He came up only a yard short... and if he manages to get that 1st down, we're talking about it as one of the big plays of the game.

True but he's clearly nowhere near as good at lining up in the slot and going into motion on his own recognition down the line to line up by the TE and blow up a blitzing LB. Moose Johnston got a big kick out of that

Perry's got his uses but not a change of pace back. Why change the pace from the power I running game that gets opened up by the downfield pass game? It still relies on crease running and breaking arm tackles and Perry is good at neither. The Bengals started in on that same old sh#t by running a stretch to Perry that had absolutely zero chance of going anywhere like too many of them last year. Maybe if they had a zone blocking line some of that works but not what they got now.

If Perry is any kind of a RB, it's a pick up the pace back. Use him in the 2 minute with a lot of field to go or down by 2 scores where the field opens up w/ a prevent defense. That's the best way to use him as a RB.

[derekshank]

He's clearly a lot better than Watson at running that shovel pass play on 3rd and long. He came up only a yard short... and if he manages to get that 1st down, we're talking about it as one of the big plays of the game.

True but he's clearly nowhere near as good at lining up in the slot and going into motion on his own recognition down the line to line up by the TE and blow up a blitzing LB. Moose Johnston got a big kick out of that

Perry's got his uses but not a change of pace back. Why change the pace from the power I running game that gets opened up by the downfield pass game? It still relies on crease running and breaking arm tackles and Perry is good at neither. The Bengals started in on that same old sh#t by running a stretch to Perry that had absolutely zero chance of going anywhere like too many of them last year. Maybe if they had a zone blocking line some of that works but not what they got now.

If Perry is any kind of a RB, it's a pick up the pace back. Use him in the 2 minute with a lot of field to go or down by 2 scores where the field opens up w/ a prevent defense. That's the best way to use him as a RB.

I don't completely disagree... but he did average 4.6 yards a carry last year on more than 60 carries. However the Bengals are using him in the running game, it has worked to some extent in the past. I'm not going to judge him on 2 carries in his first game back after only 2 practices.

He might be a Westbrook type RB who is a better receiver than a straight RB... but he still converted 15 1st downs last year in the running game, and 16 in the passing game. That seems fairly balanced if you ask me.

[rwalling]

3 catches, 26 yards. That right there helps to make a weakness a strength, as his presence adds back in the missing dimension of change-of-pace back out of the backfield.

And, that is off of two practices. He will get in game shape as the year unfolds...

I don't think that tells the whole story either. Our third down efficiency was better all around. He's another playmaker defenses have to worry about. Carson likes looking to him in those situations as well.

[schweinhart]

He might be a Westbrook type RB who is a better receiver than a straight RB... but he still converted 15 1st downs last year in the running game, and 16 in the passing game. That seems fairly balanced if you ask me.

A big difference between Perry and Westbrook or Edgerin James or now Joseph Addai as a single-back, 3rd down back or even in a change of pace package is going to be the blocking. Even though it won't show up in the fantasy stats, single-set backs have to be able to block in the backfield. Perry has shown he's willing at it but not that good at it yet.

Any and all 1st downs are welcome by any skills player in stripes but the splits on Perry's 15 1st downs rushing last year probably show less balance than it would seem...including several on draws vs. prevent defenses and probably as many if not more on 2nd and short than 3rd down. I can't find the splits though but it would be somewhat interesting to chart them so that they can be pinned and used for all Chris Perry threads

[derekshank]

A big difference between Perry and Westbrook or Edgerin James or now Joseph Addai as a single-back, 3rd down back or even in a change of pace package is going to be the blocking. Even though it won't show up in the fantasy stats, single-set backs have to be able to block in the backfield. Perry has shown he's willing at it but not that good at it yet.

Any and all 1st downs are welcome by any skills player in stripes but the splits on Perry's 15 1st downs rushing last year probably show less balance than it would seem...including several on draws vs. prevent defenses and probably as many if not more on 2nd and short than 3rd down. I can't find the splits though but it would be somewhat interesting to chart them so that they can be pinned and used for all Chris Perry thr eads

Well, Rudi gets the ball on 3rd and short, so you can't use that against Perry. Perry only had 6 carries on 3rd down the entire season. When Perry's in the game on 3rd and long, you know it's a passing play. And more often than not, Perry is a weapon for Palmer to utilize, not a blocker to protect him.

But here are those situational stats you want.

Perry's Situational stats

Rudi's Situational stats

Unfortunately they don't list 1st downs converted in the passing game... but I still think Perry compared relatively well to Rudi considering his limited action. I'm sure that you are right that many of his yards come off of draw plays... but who the hell cares? If he's effective on those plays... why not?

I'm not asking Perry to be Rudi. He is what he is, so we need to utilize those skills. He's an excellent receiver out of the backfield as well as a good situational rusher. I don't really ever see him becoming an every down back for us... but that's not really what I want from him either. I want him to produce in situations where his skills warrant it, and he has shown a more than adequate ability to do so (when he can manage to be on the field).

[agreen_112]

Welcome back Perry, glad to have ya! With Rudi carrying the load and a speedy back like C. Perry, there isn't a better 1-2 punch in the NFL! Perry should see more plays designed at getting him the ball. Whether it's passes in the flats, screens, shovels or stretch plays, be on the lookout for Perry to emerge as a huge part of this offense.

[HairOnFire]

Chris Perry had no real impact in the Carolina game. The few plays he was involved in could have been easily run by other players.

That said, there's no need to bash Perry as he barely practiced for this game and wasn't likely to have an impact under those circumstances. In fact, you have to wonder if he'll be up to speed enough to have a real impact in the coming Falcon game.

Bottom Line: It's likely that for a few weeks the return of Chris Perry adds fire to the Bengals attack only on paper. The real ability to add meaningful firepower to the Bengals struggling offensive attack comes by way of Chris Henry.

[membengal]

3 catches, 26 yards. That right there helps to make a weakness a strength, as his presence adds back in the missing dimension of change-of-pace back out of the backfield.

Perry can't run worth a spit from the backfield, between the tackles or out on the edges.

I think that statement is just way overblown. WAY overblown. Perry has had TWO practices this year. Two. That's it. His immediate impact will be out of the backfield as a receiving threat, but that is a far cry from dismissively suggesting he be split out wide. He is terrific catching passes on third down, and was extremely valuable in that roll last year. Plus, as derek already metioned, the actual stats from last year show he runs the ball just fine in general. Better than fine, in fact.

I love Rudi. Love him. But this team is better with Perry complementing him, and has missed him terribly...

[Tasher]

It is just great to have our top guys back on the field. participating and producing when called upon.

The more action he gets, the better he and the Bengals will be.

[skyline]

Chris Perry had no real impact in the Carolina game. The few plays he was involved in could have been easily run by other players.

That's hard to determine. I think his presence on the field, alone, had an impact. The pre-game crew said that John Fox mentioned Perry in his pregame comments as someone they had to watch out for. That tells you that when he's on the field, he demands attention, which helps free up other players.

Now whether or not any of the open receivers/tight ends Palmer found can be attributed to Perry drawing attention from other defenders or not is entirely up in the air. But to say he had no real impact is just as silly as saying he's the reason we won.

[HairOnFire]

Chris Perry had no real impact in the Carolina game. The few plays he was involved in could have been easily run by other players.

That's hard to determine. I think his presence on the field, alone, had an impact. The pre-game crew said that John Fox mentioned Perry in his pregame comments as someone they had to watch out for. That tells you that when he's on the field, he demands attention, which helps free up other players.

Now whether or not any of the open receivers/tight ends Palmer found can be attributed to Perry drawing attention from other defenders or not is entirely up in the air. But to say he had no real impact is just as silly as saying he's the reason we won.

Well, you've got me there. How am I supposed to counter an argument that claims Chris Perry's biggest impact in a game is found in plays he isn't directly involved in?

The fact remains that Perry's only true impact came on the Bengals 5th drive when he gained 12 yards on a 3rd and 11 from the Bengals own 19 yard line. That play resulted in the Bengals first 1st down conversion of the day and jump started their first scoring drive. Sp props, but beyond that there's absolutely nothing Perry did that is worth noting...unless it's to point out that in the 2nd half he repeatedly came up one yard short on multiple 3rd down opportunities.

Frankly, I've banged on Chris Perry plenty of times in the past for very good reasons, but I have no intent on doing that today beyond pointing out how unlikely it was that he could have had an impact in this game due to not practicing. And predictably, he most certainly didn't have an impact....unless you want to give too much much weight to a single play.

[bengalboomer7]

His impact in this game was pretty minimal. However, DAMN did he look fast out there, and I was wrong, he will have an impact on this season

[BengalszoneBilly]

2 carries! Did he get hurt again? Saw him in early but not later.

I'll admit he DID show up, and remained uninjured for the duration of the game. As far as impact? Minimal IMHO. The long overdue inclusion of the tight ends in the passing attack by Bratkowski was a far bigger factor than Chrissy Perry.

[BULLDOGG]

Chris Perry (much maligned) should be a very welcome addition from the PUP list as opposed to being bashed. He gives us something that no other back on the roster can in an ability to be a HUGE 3rd down weapon and more versatility in the passing game. That instantly improves our ability to convert 3rd downs, which helps our offensive line, passing game, time of possession all in one instance, which should also increase the number of points we score per game and the number of times the opponents have the chance to score.

Another thing that people fail to realize is that he averaged over 4.5 years per carry last season and was a consistent 30-35 carry back at Michigan. I do not believe there is another back on the roster that can carry the ball with that consistenty either on the roster or practice squad. When Henry returns (who was arguably our best receiver the first part of the season) returns, in the next few games when our offensive line gels more and we have that nice 1-2 punch in the backfield, the offense of '05 will return.

[HairOnFire]

Chris Perry (much maligned) should be a very welcome addition from the PUP list as opposed to being bashed.

He's not being bashed. The impact of his presence on Sunday is being debated, and most seem to agree that it was minimal, a result that was predictable due to his lack of practice.

Perry's potential is well known, and the moment he reaches it I think you'll find that all of the so-called bashers will cheer for him as loudly as anyone else. That said, I think it's fair to say that Chris Perry was an afterthought in the Panther game whose contributions were less than a Bengal player who almost never gets a kind word, TE Tony Stewart. So why are Bengal fans supposed to stroke Chris Perry after his cameo appearance? Can't we be honest and let the chips fall

The question we should be considering is if a full weeks worth of practice will be enough to get Perry ready to contribute in a meaningful way against the Falcons. I'm guessing the answer is no, and as a result I'll expect little more from Perry than what he showed against Carolina. That said, I wouldn't mind it a bit if he pleasantly surprised by doing something that actually merits a thread.

[schweinhart]

I'm sure that you are right that many of his yards come off of draw plays... but who the hell cares? If he's effective on those plays... why not?

I agree and yes, I am right Thankx for the stat splits and that's what is on NFL.com also only the 2005 has to be plugged in on the address because 2006 comes up off the player page. The splits don't breakdown down and distance but I did find some interesting data based on the 3 games where Perry picked up 10 of his 16 1st downs rushing.

5 of those 10 came vs. the Jags and Colts with the Bengals down at least 10 points. Hence the phrase pick-up-the-pace back rather than change-of-pace. I've said repeatedly that I believe Perry is good for drives when the Bengals are down by 2 scores and he is. He gained 84 yards on those 5 carries.

3 of those 10 came vs. the Vikes with the Bengals ahead by at least 20 points. So I would say that Perry is also a good mop up back with the Bengals ahead by 3 scores.

Now as for the statement that Perry can't carry worth a spit between the tackles or on the edge as commented about below:

I think that statement is just way overblown. WAY overblown. Perry has had TWO practices this year. Two. That's it. His immediate impact will be out of the backfield as a receiving threat, but that is a far cry from dismissively suggesting he be split out wide. He is terrific catching passes on third down, and was extremely valuable in that roll last year. Plus, as derek already metioned, the actual stats from last year show he runs the ball just fine in general. Better than fine, in fact.

I do stand corrected on some previous posts though. I always thought that Perry ran worse vs. 3-4 teams (inlcuding the Ratbirds multiple front schemes). He had 16 carries for 47 yds vs. those teams last year.

But when I did some extree ciphering, lo a be-holed if I didn't find out something more. If you take the 7 runs where he picked up 1st downs with the Bengals either down 2 scores or up 3 scores, the yards total 117. (This doesn't include a 3 yd 1st down run w/ the Bengals up by 34 vs. the Vikes). Now when you subtract those numbers from his totals rushing you come up with 54-162, which w/o complications from the metric system comes out to exactly 3 yards per carry as in 3.0 -- pretty much the same either way (4-3 or 3-4).

So I would add that saying Perry can run worth a spit between the tackles or off the edge is underblown not overblown based on some of my previous statements that Perry can run effectively vs. 4-3 teams. He pretty much sucks at it either way. Unless you consider 3.0 per carry to be "Better than fine".

Maybe an NFL team needs to ship in the vaunted D-Line of the Mighty Fighting Illini so Perry can return to his glory days.

[bengalboomer7]

Ya still can't argue the speed he showed Sunday. Definitely a different element. And this is coming from a guy that said he'd have NO IMPACT this season. I think you'll see flashes, but he's still a backup to Rudi, and I don't think you'll see any platooning going on out there, so that's all you're gonna get...flashes.

I think in what little he did he showed he can be valuable to the bengals this season. Just another weapon

[schweinhart]

No doubt Perry is a legit weapon as a receiver and he has shown it already this year. He's a weapon in the slot or split wide or in a split backfield. But I consider him a detriment as a change-of-pace RB who gets calls to run in series in the normal course of a game because he hasn't shown he can run between the tackles or off the edge worth a spit unless the other team is in a prevent or getting clobbered by 30 pts.

Can he change that? He's certainly got a great RB coach to help him along the way but by the time you add in the injury risk he faces based on his style of running -- may have worked out just fine in college but exposes him in the NFL -- I just wouldn't put too much stock in him as the future of this team in the backfield regardless of flash.

But I would hope the blitz blocking is a major factor in the minds of the staff as to when and where Perry gets on the field. Do they really trust him to be the last line of defense from Palmer getting creamed? Put him in as a 3rd down back and he has to be able to do that. He did do it some last year but I just don't think he's shown he's good enough at it yet.