A chance to sign Steiny?

[Sportsdoc]

So any of you capologists out there know how much Willie has cost us and do we have any chance to sign Eric?

I assume Willie's deal is back end loaded as I do not forsee him playing 5 more seasons.

Whitworth seemed to handle most of the DE's in the pre-season but I did not seem him against ALL Pro DE's.. his feet are quick, though, and he could probably do a good job on the Left side, although I think Steiny pulls awfully well like Faneca does......

Also, why did we let Dorsey go and keep AJ Felonson? Seems like we have plenty of LB's... and did Frozen Rucker do anything impressive? I felt he is some kind of project for Marvin... his weight seems to fluctuate a lot... looks like we are making a lot of linebackers for a 3-4 to me..................

[Kazkal]

I think willies contract barley raises his current cap number if I'm not mistaken,but money should be saved for defense Landon Needs to be resigned and madieu will need a extension after this season to lock him up...steinbach wants LT money it seems and I just dont think he'll get it here.

Wasen't willies contract front loaded pay him more now so 4/5th year were cheaper?

[kingwilly]

Steiny will get franchised in 07.

[ArmyBengal]

I see the tag in Bach's future and then work a long term deal from there. As for Dorsey, I still wish we could have seen him more early in games against the 1st teamers and couple that with having Watson and C. Perry and he just wasn't sticking. Keeping additional LB's (Nicholson) is a good thing in my mind for depth and for the way we run our defense 4-3 / 3-4 mix... The defense is getting much better !!!

WHODEY !!!

[Kazkal]

Steiny will get franchised in 07.

Mybe to trade him or if whitworth doesnt show hes rdy to start

[richmond_mat]

I'm no capologist but I don't see steinbach in stripes next year. Hopefully he'll have a heck of a year and he's franchised so some team throws draft picks for him. However, if he doesn't make the probowl the franchise tag will be wasted. I just cannot see mikey going cash over cap for too long.

[AMC]

Steiny will get franchised in 07.

Mybe to trade him or if whitworth doesnt show hes rdy to start

I agree. The franchise cap number for G is way too high, especially in the Bengals mind....Thanks to the Hutchinson deal.....

[Kazkal]

No not thanks to hutch deal,Guards get top 5 Olinemen for franchise they need change it so its postion even for linemen

[NYBengalfan]

i think that we should sign steinbach. But lets not open up the wallet yet. Like a previous poster said, Franchise him in 07 then if all things go as planned and he keeps peolple away from Palmer, knees then sign him.

[derekshank]

I really don't understand why everyone wants to franchise Steiny. He shouldn't get paid like a top 5 LT. He's a Guard, and while he's very valuable... he's not that valuable.

Besides... They used a 2nd round pick on Whitworth. Most teams get guys in the 2nd round that can start right away. We're already sitting him in year 1. I just don't see how franchising Steiny could be part of the long-term plan.

The money they're giving to Whitworth right now is significantly less than what it would require to keep Steiny, and Whitworth has been impressive and versatile. It just doesn't make sense to keep paying top tier money to every offensive position when you have perfectly capable guys sitting on the bench.

If we franchise Steiny, it further limits the money we can spend on the defense... and the disparity there is already far too extreme.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

No not thanks to hutch deal,Guards get top 5 Olinemen for franchise they need change it so its postion even for linemen

That they do, it certainly makes it tough to FP a Guard.

However, ones question - when doing the top 5 salary calculations for franchise player considerations, does it count only base salary, or base salary + pro-rated signing bonus + roster bonuses + etc....? I can't find a good explanation anywhere.

Because if you strip out all the bonuses, a pretty good player would definitely be worth top-5 base-salary only. Even LT base salary, I'd have to imagine.

If Steinbach thinks he gets LT money, he is more than welcome to try.

[Kirkendall]

I really don't understand why everyone wants to franchise Steiny. He shouldn't get paid like a top 5 LT. He's a Guard, and while he's very valuable... he's not that valuable.

If I'm correct, and that's always up for debate, I think he'd get top-five money at guard.. not tackle. Now if we transition him, it might make much more sense. But I agree with you... mostly (voice of little girl in Aliens).

Also, why did we let Dorsey go and keep AJ Felonson? Seems like we have plenty of LB's... and did Frozen Rucker do anything impressive? I felt he is some kind of project for Marvin... his weight seems to fluctuate a lot... looks like we are making a lot of linebackers for a 3-4 to me..................

1. Where would you have put Dorsey? They wanted to sign him to the practice squad but forced to put him through waivers before -- which Indy picked him up and lost him. Wilson's saving grace was that he played special teams too.

2. A.J. Nicholson is the result of... special teams play. But injury and suspension gave him a roster spot.

3. Yes, Rucker did quit a few things amazing.

4. We're definitely using the 3-4. But it's not every down.. just when it makes sense. 4-3 is the base defense.. by name only.

[Stripes]

Franchise tags for guards and tackles are listed at the same costs, as far as I know.

[angst]

Willie's contract is front loaded.

Franchising Steinbach means you have to pay him tackle money to play guard. I believe he is worth it, he can play tackle, guard and center and has done so for us. (When Levi has to take a play off, Steinbach slides out and I don't see Carson getting blindsided.) But overpaying for a great guard may be the straw that breaks the back and they will have to let him move on. One of the talented younger guys like Whitworth, Wilkerson, or whoever looks right a year from now. The tackles are set for awhile, Bengals should be fine. Would still hate to see him go.

[Kirkendall]

Franchise tags for guards and tackles are listed at the same costs, as far as I know.

Franchise is:

NFL rules require teams to pay a "franchise" player the average of the top five players at the position or 120 percent of the player's salary cap number from the previous year, whichever is higher.

His position is guard and don't think it has anything to do with Tackle. That would be like franchising a FB and giving him RB money. Joisey would probably be better to explain it -- he's a little more in tune with this stuff than I.

BTW, anyone see the Tiki Barber commercial for Disk Network? Funny...

[Tasher]

Whats wrong with this picture:

Steinbach, Eric 65 G 6-6 290

Ghiaciuc, Eric 53 C 6-4 302

Braham, Rich 74 C 6-4 305

Jones, Levi 76 T 6-5 307

Kooistra, Scott 75 T/G 6-6 320

Whitworth, Andrew * 77 G/T 6-7 339

Anderson, Willie 71 T 6-5 340

Andrews, Stacy 79 G/T 6-7 342

Williams, Bobbie 63 G 6-4 345

Stiny is tiny

Can you imagine as a definsive coor trying to go against this:

307 339 305 345 340

nearly all they have to do is stand there...

[Kazkal]

i think that we should sign steinbach. But lets not open up the wallet yet. Like a previous poster said, Franchise him in 07 then if all things go as planned and he keeps peolple away from Palmer, knees then sign him.

Ya who needs to spend money on defense "rolls his eyes" we alrdy have over half of our cap locked up in offense,even stillers but all same

The Bengals' One-Sided Spending

The Bengals and Carson Palmer have become media darlings. They can not get enough of the explosive offense, and flamboyant star Chad Johnson. They draw comparisons to the Colts frequently these days. You might as well call them a “mini” version of them at this point. Both run the no-huddle offense, and have QB’s with gaudy stats. They’ve each also lacked defense, and spend a disproportional amount of their cap on one side of the ball.

There were two relatively large signings made by the Bengals in free agency. They have spent most of their efforts on retaining the services of their own talented players. Over the past two seasons, they have locked up 8 of their 11 offensive starters. Three of them have become the highest paid at their position (Palmer, J. Johnson, and now Willie Anderson), and two others have become among the highest (C. Johnson, Levi Jones). These are quality players, and every fan certainly wants to keep their own talent, but the Bengals have done so at a fairly high cost. Carson Palmer was locked up just weeks before the Wild Card injury to the Steelers, while he still had three years remaining on his rookie contract. Palmer will obviously be seeing top dollar. He received $118.75 mil for the next 9 years. This would be a yearly salary of $13.2 mil.

The Bengals also extended Palmer’s number one target, Chad Johnson. He received a 5 year, $35 mil extension; roughly $7 mil per season. The Bengals top WR/QB duo will cost them nearly 1/5 of the current cap, but it doesn’t stop there.

The Bengals locked up their two starters in the backfield over the past two years. Jeremi Johnson became the highest paid fullback (admittedly, a pretty small sum) with a 6 year, $7.5 mil contract. Before the 05 season, they made sure they secured Rudi Johnson for the next 5 seasons (that means 4 more seasons left at this point) at $26 mil (just over $5 mil a season, obviously). The Bengals are now paying these four players roughly $27 mil.

To go along with Rudi Johnson, the Bengals also locked up Palmer’s second target, T.J. Houshmandzadeh. He was given a 4 year, $13 mil contract. This was a steal for a guy who will put up 70-80 catches for them yearly. The total for the past five players, though? $31 mil a year, or nearly 1/3 of the current salary cap.

Prior to this offseason, all five of the Bengals starters on the offensive line were entering the final year of their contract. Obviously, the Bengals weren’t going to let each starter wait until next year. They began by locking up right guard Bobbie Williams with a contract extension that added three extra years, and an estimated $11 mil in new money. Williams will be seeing roughly $3.5 mil a year, which brings the total to $34/35 mil for 6 offensive starters.

Next up? Prized LT Levi Jones. They made him the fourth highest paid offensive linemen in the league with a $40 mil, 6 year extension. That’s $6.7 per year, and $42 mil for 6 players.

The most recent signing came just today, with RT Willie Anderson. He was given 5 extra years, and $32 mil, or $6.4 per year. The Bengals are paying $48/49 mil a season for 8 of their starting offensive players.

To put this in perspective, the Steelers pay these same 8 positions roughly $30 mil per season (used Faneca instead of Simmons at guard). Granted, Starks and Simmons will be FA’s after this seasons. Then, does anyone really think they’ll be given anywhere near that sort of cash? Or that the Steelers are going to be extending Roethlisberger after this season, with 3 seasons still left?

If you have any questions or comments, you can contact me at CKsteeler@hotmail.com, or on the forums (username CKSteelers).

PS,I think what we've spent so far is fine but we need start spending money on defense.

No not thanks to hutch deal,Guards get top 5 Olinemen for franchise they need change it so its postion even for linemen

That they do, it certainly makes it tough to FP a Guard.

However, ones question - when doing the top 5 salary calculations for franchise player considerations, does it count only base salary, or base salary + pro-rated signing bonus + roster bonuses + etc....? I can't find a good explanation anywhere.

Because if you strip out all the bonuses, a pretty good player would definitely be worth top-5 base-salary only. Even LT base salary, I'd have to imagine.

If Steinbach thinks he gets LT money, he is more than welcome to try.

if I'm not mistaken I heard cap hit would be 7-9.5 million range to franchise a linemen

Try trade him for 2md/3rd with tag on him

[HoosierCat]

Just to throw a few thoughts in (some of this was discussed in the Willie signing thread):

1. The cap, $102 million this year, is projected to go to $109 million in 2007.

2. We have a number of well-compensated players in their final year, such as Justin and Tory. Just those two count $7.7 million vs. the cap this season, and both are widely thought to be gone after '06. If they do indeed head out, even after figuring in raises for those who stay, an injury pool, a rookie pool, Girl Scout cookies for Hobson, etc., finding $5 million or so to sign Eric is possible.

3. As far as I know, kirk, they do not break tackle and guard out for franchise numbers, it's just "o-line". OTOH guards have been increasing in compensation for several years.

So in the end is it possible to sign Eric? Easily. Should they do it? I think so but it's an arguable point. Will they do it? Right now I doubt it.

[JoePong]

You guys are absolutely insane if you think we are going to make name Steinbach our franchise player!

We may re-sign him. We may give him the transition tag to make sure we can keep him or get something in return. We may give him a big long term contract. But no way will he ever be named a franchise player and count that much against the cap in one year.

The suggestion is ridiculous and can only be made by people who have no understanding of the NFL.

[HoosierCat]

I doubt he's franchised, either. Not because of the amount involved in the tag, even that's do-able. But simply because Eric's reported demands are well short of that amount. He's "only" reported to be looking for a contract in the $4-5 million range. Pricey, but given his versatility a bargain, IMHO.

In short, I doubt the Bengals franchise Steinbach because they don't have to. If they don't sign him to a long term deal, tho, I would expect the transition tag, just so they have an option to match (note there's no compensation if we don't in that case).

[Kazkal]

It's doable but it's in the lateryears when Defensive players contracts start to going up,How much money are we spending on offense total right now?

[HoosierCat]

It's doable but it's in the lateryears when Defensive players contracts start to going up,How much money are we spending on offense total right now?

There's always that balance issue. But you also have to ask yourself: who on the defense are we looking at having to pony up big money for?

Anyone here want to spend big money on Justin Smith? I would but I'm in the minority, and even I'm willing to admit he's not worth top 10 money.

Deltha's here through '08. Madieu will be up in '07 but safety isn't a huge money position.

Simmons is probably gone after his deal runs out in '08. Odell and Pollack are signed through '09. Landon and Caleb are up after this year, I believe, but neither have done anything to warrant top dollar.

Geathers and Smith are both up after '06 but neither should cost a lot to re-sign. Thornton is here through '08.

In short, there simply isn't a lot of call for big $$$ on the defeisive side right now, because we haven't got anyone worth big money. Maybe that changes after this season, maybe a bunch of guys have breakout years, but if that's the case, the Bengals will have to deal with it then. For now, I'll worry about balance when our p*ss-poor D catches up to out awesome o.

[derekshank]

In short, there simply isn't a lot of call for big $$$ on the defeisive side right now, because we haven't got anyone worth big money. Maybe that changes after this season, maybe a bunch of guys have breakout years, but if that's the case, the Bengals will have to deal with it then. For now, I'll worry about balance when our p*ss-poor D catches up to out awesome o.

Fair enough... but who knows what free agency will bring next year. If I'm not mistaken, you are always the one complaining (until we brought in Adams) that we never go after a big name. If we re-sign Steiny, that trend is likely to continue. But, if we let Steiny go, and possibly Smith too... well, that's a large chunk of change we can go after a top tier DE with. Of course, it all depends upon what is available... but if we keep spending all our money on offense, it won't matter what's available. We won't be able to afford staying in the running.

[aaronburr]

They won't franchise Steinbach. If they did, they would make him the highest paid lineman on the team and punish Levi and Willie for signing early.

And yes, guard and tackles are grouped together when it comes to the franchise and transition tags. I posted a quote from NFL.com a few months ago that confirmed this.

[lando griffin]

T-minus 2 days from the beginning of the NFL season. Right about now I'm not worried about Steinbach's contract status. If we sign him to a long-term deal or let Whitworth step in, I think we'll be more than fine. Marvin, Mike, and Katie will make the right decision on it.

I'm so pumped up for this weekend I can hardly wait. Thursday I get to cheer for the Dolphins, Saturday OSU, and then of course Sunday finally ends our endless offseason.