Change in script.

[ChadJohnson-85]

Change in script

By GEOFF HOBSON

July 26, 2006

7:45 p.m.

No one could have called this back in an empty, dark Paul Brown Stadium as Jan. 8 became Jan. 9, but when the Bengals open training camp Saturday night Carson Palmer is going to be calling signals for the offense and Brian Simmons is going to be calling signals for the defense as the new middle linebacker.

Both calls were anticipated after what transpired five weeks ago in minicamp, when Palmer practiced four times in about 24 hours on his reconstructed left knee and Simmons moved from right outside to take the place of the guy they figured they probably wouldn’t have in the middle on Opening Day. On Wednesday, the Bengals confirmed that Odell Thurman is gone for the first four games in violation of the NFL’s substance abuse policy.

“Go back and watch the last four games and tell me we’re going to miss him. I don’t buy that,” said defensive coordinator Chuck Bresnahan. “That’s why we have a depth chart.

“(Simmons) has been there. The guy’s done it,” Bresnahan said. “The guy knows how to approach the game and studies. He knows what he’s supposed to do and not give up easy touchdowns when we’re supposed to have the play covered like a glove.”

Thurman drew almost as much ire from the coaches for being out of position as he did praise for coming up with five interceptions and leading the Bengals with 148 tackles and four forced fumbles. Bresnahan knows they’ll miss Thurman’s playmaking, but he’s also looking at his secondary.

“They’re going to point to the interceptions, but we’re just going to have to get it from other people,” Bresnahan said. “One more for Deltha. A couple more for Tory. Johnathan Joseph gets a couple and so does Keiwan, and now you’ve more than made up for it. You’ve got to look at the glass half full, and he’s not guaranteed anything when he gets back. These other guys have worked hard to get comfortable together.”

If no one saw the off-season problems lurking for Thurman, they couldn’t have been expected to see Palmer’s supersonic recovery that night he hung his head on the cart as he rode off the field. Palmer’s shredded knee (torn ACL and MCL and dislocated kneecap) is intact enough to start training camp on time.

The plan had once been to start camp with Palmer as the No. 3 quarterback and cool his heels for a week or two. But Lewis said Wednesday that Palmer in mid June was where they thought he would be in mid August.

“To my eye, he’s pretty close (to normal),” said Bengals president Mike Brown. “He couldn’t have done anymore than he did. We expected he’d be back and playing, and he’s our key guy. The doctors have to make the call on that and at the appropriate time we’ll get him in there.’

He’ll be in there Saturday night, but offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski’s challenge is to divide the snaps so Palmer’s knee doesn’t take a pounding and Anthony Wright and Doug Johnson get enough chances to decide who the backup is going to be. The current depth chart lists Wright No. 2 and Johnson No. 3.

It won’t be like last camp’s all-Palmer-all-the-time script when he was healthy and backup Jon Kitna was heading into his fifth season in the system.

“It will be a day-to-day thing. It wouldn’t be as if everything was normal and he didn’t have the injury,” Bratkowski said. “We’ll start out with a certain number of snaps for each guy. It will change as we determine who the No. 2 guy is. It could change when Carson might need a day off. Marvin has a good idea what he wants to do. I don’t think anything is etched in stone. We’ll give him reps judiciously, but it’s mainly going to be a feel thing.”

But there’s no question that Palmer is going to be worked as if he’s the Opening Day starter.

“Maybe not in your determination, but in ours,” Lewis said.

Lewis is holding the hand he’s been dealt in the Thurman situation closer to the vest. Thurman is eligible to practice and play in the preseason games, as well as attend meetings and work out on his own at the facility when the suspension begins Sept. 4 and ends Oct. 1.

But Lewis made it clear Wednesday that he has the discretion to let him practice now and then activate him on Oct. 2, and he isn’t saying what he’s going to let him do.

All signs indicate that Thurman is up to 240 pounds and is well enough to practice and that he has not shriveled up to a 190-pound addict as some cyberspace hysteria declared. It appears as if he’s getting ready to leave his Monticello, Ga., home Friday to make the trip here.

What both Brown and Lewis are saying is that Thurman approaches a critical part of his life in trying to get his drug problem behind him. Because the NFL fines up to $500,000 for violating the confidentiality of its drug rehab program, no specifics are available. But Brown cited a USA Today story he read recently that said 20 percent of American families have someone who is addicted.

Brown has already lived the nightmare with Stanley Wilson and the cocaine binge on the eve of the Super Bowl that Paul Brown went to his grave believing cost the Bengals a world championship.

“If that’s an accurate statement, I think it’s not surprising that occasionally we have things crop up in pro football or with us. I wish it didn’t. I feel strongly about it,” Mike Brown said.

“They are most often very sad (cases),” Brown said. “It’s been a debate for a long time. Treat it like an illness or something to be penalized. We operate with the CBA . . .and in those ground rules these guys are going to be given every chance to right themselves. We’re going to work to get that done.”

Because of the suspension, rookie linebackers Ahmad Brooks and A.J. Nicholson figure to get some work in the middle, but Lewis singled out third-year man Caleb Miller’s outstanding play in the middle during the spring. All three guys don’t figure to make it, although Thurman won’t count on the final 53-man roster.

Brooks has flashed since he arrived following his surprising selection two weeks ago in the third round of the supplemental draft. Lewis has been getting a charge out of it because since he was one of the only coaches around last week and Brooks was one of the only players, Lewis got back to his roots with some up-close-and-personal coaching.

“He’s a sponge,” Lewis said. “Even when he’s in the car driving and talking, he asks questions.”

Brooks has only been in individual workouts, but Bresnahan said of the 260-pounder: “He’s a big man. Big. And it looks like he can move. But I can’t predict what happens before the pads go on.”

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5345

[Bgal]

Awesome news about Carson!!

Doesn't sound like the coaches are all that happy with Thurman... kinda wonder if he gets his spot back when he returns.

Brooks is sounding more and more like a great pick!

This has been an awesome week Bengal news wise!

[Stripes]

It's been a great offseason, and it keeps getting better. Nobody thought Palmer had a chance to get this kind of work in at camp when he went down.

[Kazkal]

Awesome news about Carson!!

Doesn't sound like the coaches are all that happy with Thurman... kinda wonder if he gets his spot back when he returns.

Brooks is sounding more and more like a great pick!

This has been an awesome week Bengal news wise!

If he proves he wants it in the meantime ie being early for the meetings working his ass off and showing he has learned.

also lol at the ref of internet idiots saying odell was down to 190 pounds.

PS, also found it intresting they said not to count out Caleb miller yet.

[GregCook]

Guys this Carson is number 1 in camp does scare me. I've seen lots of pros come back too soon and then come back a year later.

As for Odell, we need that guy. Brooks and AJ can't be trusted this year to contribute and it would be stupid to expect them to be clean, straight and mentally tough enough to play every game in their first season. Besides, I don't see how we get to a 3-4 without guys like Odell, Brooks, or AJ.

[HoTbOy]

Good news about CPalmer, I hope that he is able to start against KC...OThurman may not get his job back if ABrooks continues to improve, and if he plays at least like OThurman did last year or if he plays better I would let him ABrooks stay in and that would teach him the consequences of his actions...

[andybren]

It's good that you posted the entire article. I don't know how else I would have been able to read it.

I can't get a sense of whether Bresnahan is talking about Odell or to Odell. Seems a little odd to throw your would-be starting MLB under the bus like that.

Regardless, it sounds like Brooks will be good to stir the pot, even if he doesn't end up with serious playing time. How many LB's do you keep? Here's Curnette's projected depth chart:

SLB - David Pollack, Hannibal Navies, Rashad Jeanty

MLB - Landon Johnson, A.J. Nicholson, Odell Thurman@

WLB - Brian Simmons, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins

[Oldcat]

SLB - David Pollack, Hannibal Navies, Rashad Jeanty

MLB - Landon Johnson, A.J. Nicholson, Odell Thurman@

WLB - Brian Simmons, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins

Already wrong because Simmons is #1 at MLB now

[derekshank]

Guys this Carson is number 1 in camp does scare me. I've seen lots of pros come back too soon and then come back a year later.

Do you have names? I've heard lots of people make this statement... and I certainly understand the concern, but I still haven't heard any specific situations. There are lots of situations where guys came back, and they say they came back too early (Jerry Rice, Donovan McNabb) but in almost all of those situations, they aren't injured further... they just admit that they were not really ready for how physical the season is. But it didn't impact their future.

I'm as concerned as anyone about Palmer coming back too soon, but he has his head on straight, and every report I've heard says he's being careful not to risk the rest of his career for this season. I just don't think this is something worth worrying about right now.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Guys this Carson is number 1 in camp does scare me. I've seen lots of pros come back too soon and then come back a year later.

Do you have names? I've heard lots of people make this statement... and I certainly understand the concern, but I still haven't heard any specific situations. There are lots of situations where guys came back, and they say they came back too early (Jerry Rice, Donovan McNabb) but in almost all of those situations, they aren't injured further... they just admit that they were not really ready for how physical the season is. But it didn't impact their future.

I'm as concerned as anyone about Palmer coming back too soon, but he has his head on straight, and every report I've heard says he's being careful not to risk the rest of his career for this season. I just don't think this is something worth worrying about right now.

Chad Pennington? I could come up with more but it's 7:30 and I'm not caffeinated yet.

[HairOnFire]

SLB - David Pollack, Hannibal Navies, Rashad Jeanty

MLB - Landon Johnson, A.J. Nicholson, Odell Thurman@

WLB - Brian Simmons, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins

Already wrong because Simmons is #1 at MLB now

And there's no mention of Ahmad Brooks, a player that much to my surprise seems to be in the mix for substantial playing time this season.

[skyline]

SLB - David Pollack, Hannibal Navies, Rashad Jeanty

MLB - Landon Johnson, A.J. Nicholson, Odell Thurman@

WLB - Brian Simmons, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins

Already wrong because Simmons is #1 at MLB now

And there's no mention of Ahmad Brooks, a player that much to my surprise seems to be in the mix for substantial playing time this season.

Well, he's practically a lock on the team, regardless, right? He's a 3rd round pick. You don't cut many of those...

[bengalboomer7]

Guys this Carson is number 1 in camp does scare me. I've seen lots of pros come back too soon and then come back a year later.

As for Odell, we need that guy. Brooks and AJ can't be trusted this year to contribute and it would be stupid to expect them to be clean, straight and mentally tough enough to play every game in their first season. Besides, I don't see how we get to a 3-4 without guys like Odell, Brooks, or AJ.

No we don't. We trusted Odell last year to start as a rookie with all his character questions. So, why couldn't the same happen with Nicholson or Brooks. And how can you say we can't trust them in one sentence, then say we can't play the 3-4 without them

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

As for Odell, we need that guy. Brooks and AJ can't be trusted this year to contribute and it would be stupid to expect them to be clean, straight and mentally tough enough to play every game in their first season. Besides, I don't see how we get to a 3-4 without guys like Odell, Brooks, or AJ.

As for the 3-4, I don't see how we go to a 3-4 without defensive linemen who are built for the 3-4. So, it is totally inconsequential that we don't have Odell for the 3-4!

SLB - David Pollack, Hannibal Navies, Rashad Jeanty

MLB - Landon Johnson, A.J. Nicholson, Odell Thurman@

WLB - Brian Simmons, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins

Already wrong because Simmons is #1 at MLB now

He MIGHT be #1 at MLB. However, it could just be that they are crosstraining Simmons and Landon Johnson inside and out in case one of them gets injured.....

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

No we don't. We trusted Odell last year to start as a rookie with all his character questions. So, why couldn't the same happen with Nicholson or Brooks. And how can you say we can't trust them in one sentence, then say we can't play the 3-4 without them

It's not everyday that a draft pick can come in and play MLB right off the bat. Even Odell made tons of mental mistakes that he had to overcome with his ridiculous athleticism. So I don't think we can count on one of those guys being ready to go week 1. Would it be nice if one of them were able to knock either Landon or Simmons off the field? Hell yeah, because that would mean they're pretty good. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

In other words, I don't think they were counting on Odell to start at this point last year. He earned it during camp and preseason. We'll see if history repeats.

[derekshank]

Guys this Carson is number 1 in camp does scare me. I've seen lots of pros come back too soon and then come back a year later.

Do you have names? I've heard lots of people make this statement... and I certainly understand the concern, but I still haven't heard any specific situations. There are lots of situations where guys came back, and they say they came back too early (Jerry Rice, Donovan McNabb) but in almost all of those situations, they aren't injured further... they just admit that they were not really ready for how physical the season is. But it didn't impact their future.

I'm as concerned as anyone about Palmer coming back too soon, but he has his head on straight, and every report I've heard says he's being careful not to risk the rest of his career for this season. I just don't think this is something worth worrying about right now.

Chad Pennington? I could come up with more but it's 7:30 and I'm not caffeinated yet.

Fair enough... but it's a completely different kind of injury. If Palmer were a RB, I'd be more inclined to share your concern... in the same way that Pennington's injury probably wouldn't have ended the season for a WR. There are tons of stories about guys coming back from ACL reconstruction probably a bit too early, but I can't think of a single situation where it has ended in missing more games than they otherwise would have.

[semiotter]

Awesome news about Carson!!

Doesn't sound like the coaches are all that happy with Thurman... kinda wonder if he gets his spot back when he returns.

Brooks is sounding more and more like a great pick!

This has been an awesome week Bengal news wise!

He shouldnt get his spot back!! You do that S**t and it hurts everyone not just yourself. He dont need to be doing that crap and get away with it, if he does others will see and say hell if he can do it so can I. So they need to kick it in the ass and show them who runs this team...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Do you have names? I've heard lots of people make this statement... and I certainly understand the concern, but I still haven't heard any specific situations. There are lots of situations where guys came back, and they say they came back too early (Jerry Rice, Donovan McNabb) but in almost all of those situations, they aren't injured further... they just admit that they were not really ready for how physical the season is. But it didn't impact their future.

I'm as concerned as anyone about Palmer coming back too soon, but he has his head on straight, and every report I've heard says he's being careful not to risk the rest of his career for this season. I just don't think this is something worth worrying about right now.

Chad Pennington? I could come up with more but it's 7:30 and I'm not caffeinated yet.

Fair enough... but it's a completely different kind of injury. If Palmer were a RB, I'd be more inclined to share your concern... in the same way that Pennington's injury probably wouldn't have ended the season for a WR. There are tons of stories about guys coming back from ACL reconstruction probably a bit too early, but I can't think of a single situation where it has ended in missing more games than they otherwise would have.

That's probably true. My concern is more with Palmer's brain, really. I don't want him playing until he plants right with that knee before he throws. I don't want him getting jittery in the pocket, as one of his best abilities was throwing that bomb in the face of a rush. He looks fantastic in practice, I'm anxious to see how he responds to live action in the preseason. Fingers crossed.

Although, if he scrambles less this preseason than he did last, my blood pressure will probably be a fair amount lower.

[derekshank]

Do you have names? I've heard lots of people make this statement... and I certainly understand the concern, but I still haven't heard any specific situations. There are lots of situations where guys came back, and they say they came back too early (Jerry Rice, Donovan McNabb) but in almost all of those situations, they aren't injured further... they just admit that they were not really ready for how physical the season is. But it didn't impact their future.

I'm as concerned as anyone about Palmer coming back too soon, but he has his head on straight, and every report I've heard says he's being careful not to risk the rest of his career for this season. I just don't think this is something worth worrying about right now.

Chad Pennington? I could come up with more but it's 7:30 and I'm not caffeinated yet.

Fair enough... but it's a completely different kind of injury. If Palmer were a RB, I'd be more inclined to share your concern... in the same way that Pennington's injury probably wouldn't have ended the season for a WR. There are tons of stories about guys coming back from ACL reconstruction probably a bit too early, but I can't think of a single situation where it has ended in missing more games than they otherwise would have.

That's probably true. My concern is more with Palmer's brain, really. I don't want him playing until he plants right with that knee before he throws. I don't want him getting jittery in the pocket, as one of his best abilities was throwing that bomb in the face of a rush. He looks fantastic in practice, I'm anxious to see how he responds to live action in the preseason. Fingers crossed.

Although, if he scrambles less this preseason than he did last, my blood pressure will probably be a fair amount lower.

I'll agree that probably all of us will be holding our breath for most of the season... if not the rest of his career when we see a defender get anywhere near him.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Lots of things can go wrong between now and the opener vs KC - but I still see no reason this team can't go to the SuperBowl this year, or next, or the year after that...

If bad guys stay in-line, Odell comes back with a newfound look on life, and Carson keeps those legs healthy and learns to avoid low hits with experience - it's going to be lights out for the rest of the league when they play the Bengals.

I am very excited to watch what is done with the personnel on this defense now - they are poised for a remarkable season if Palmer can come back during preseason and start.

If Perry stays healthy - wow.

I'm over the B.S. - this team has real potential to become a perennial top 5 franchise.

I can't wait for preseason...cannot wait. But that's every year regardless.

[derekshank]

Lots of things can go wrong between now and the opener vs KC - but I still see no reason this team can't go to the SuperBowl this year, or next, or the year after that...

Not that I don't agree with you... but this comment just struck me as the Saturday Night Live skit "Da Bears."

"We could really win the Super Bowl this year... and for the next 42 years without interruption."

[andybren]

Lots of things can go wrong between now and the opener vs KC - but I still see no reason this team can't go to the SuperBowl this year, or next, or the year after that...

Not that I don't agree with you... but this comment just struck me as the Saturday Night Live skit "Da Bears."

"We could really win the Super Bowl this year... and for the next 42 years without interruption."

I agree with both of you. The fact is, Marvin is setting up some great depth. On both sides of the ball.

Hobson's column mentions the possibility of switching to the 3-4 in longterm future....how can you think of Odell and Brooks as your two MLB's and not smile?

And with Landon on weakside and Pollack on strong....

[Stripes]

Hobson's column mentions the possibility of switching to the 3-4 in longterm future....how can you think of Odell and Brooks as your two MLB's and not smile?

And with Landon on weakside and Pollack on strong....

That makes me drool.

I doubt the idea is given any serious consideration until we can get more real depth on the defensive line... but when we do, Spain's bong-water soaked posts will all suddenly be more sensible.