ArmyBengal Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 After all the talk about Marvin maybe not being all we've seen to this point, I ask these simple questions...I vote Marvin and NO !!! WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalChamps Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Yes, I'm doubting ML a little right now, but i still think he is the right man for the job. Maybe the press is influencing me a little. But please NO MORE Stanley Wilson moments for this franchise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 After all the talk about Marvin maybe not being all we've seen to this point, I ask these simple questions...I vote Marvin and NO !!!WHODEY !!! I agree and I did. My how things have changed. The guy brings this franchise off of the scrap heap and we make the playoffs last year. Now we have a few guys that have issues and suddenly he's a poor coach, bad evaluator of talent, only wants the win, being forced to take the guys that Mike Brown wants and isn't half the coach Brat is. Prior to the playoffs, many around here were ready to boot Brat too. So Marvin has 4 or 5 bad eggs out of about 150 people that he's brought in here. Every teams got 'em. This ain't Mike Brown's daddy's team anymore. Hell, Lawrence Taylor and Ray Lewis are two of the biggest thugs ever and people have them seated at the right hand of the Father. It's 2006 folks. Get used to it. Like it or not, this s**t happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 After all the talk about Marvin maybe not being all we've seen to this point, I ask these simple questions...I vote Marvin and NO !!!WHODEY !!! I agree and I did. My how things have changed. The guy brings this franchise off of the scrap heap and we make the playoffs last year. Now we have a few guys that have issues and suddenly he's a poor coach, bad evaluator of talent, only wants the win, being forced to take the guys that Mike Brown wants and isn't half the coach Brat is. Prior to the playoffs, many around here were ready to boot Brat too. So Marvin has 4 or 5 bad eggs out of about 150 people that he's brought in here. Every teams got 'em. This ain't Mike Brown's daddy's team anymore. Hell, Lawrence Taylor and Ray Lewis are two of the biggest thugs ever and people have them seated at the right hand of the Father. It's 2006 folks. Get used to it. Like it or not, this s**t happens.Amen and exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 You guys totally miss the point. I give up. I did not say Marvin was a bad coach. I simply stated, as well did other people, that because of one winning season, everyone has become blind to some of the things going on. You can't simply give credit to the turn around of the franchise only to Marvin, and then when bad things happen, say that Marvin isn't the only one making desicions so it isn't his fault. My other point was this, the Bengals offense is WAY ahead of the defense. And why is that? It's about consistancy. They have had the same Offensive coordinator for the last 4-5 years in Bratkowski. He even survived the coaching change that brought Marvin here. The Bengal offense is a top 5 offense, and yet everyone credits Marvin for this? Marvin was brought in after being a defensive coordinator, not an offensive coordinator. He has had just as much time to improve the defense as he has the offense.So with that being said, why is the offense so much better than the defense? He has had just as many drafts, just as much time, and it is his specialty. I think homerism has really blinded someof you guys on here. After another year of Bratkowski leading the Bengals to a top 5 offense in the league, he will get 3-4 coaching interviews next year and will be gone in a year or 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Do you remember the Nineties? Please, Marvin since he has been here has records of 8-8, 8-8, and 11-5 the previous three season were 4-12, 6-10, and 2-14. Marvin in turning this franchise around has executed a miracle spare me the whole "Is Marvin the right guy" crap!The Answer to you poll question is Marvin and No. When Brat is gone Ken Zampeze will take his place and do just as good a job, what Marvin brought to this team is a plan and has carried out that plan to a letter bringing disapline, accountability, and pride to this organization and Brat does not have that capability. Do you think we won games last year on our offensive prowess? No, we won games last year because we prepared to win and the team believed it could win both are a direct result of Marvin's ability. Remember, Marvin went 8-8 his first year with a team that had just come off 2-14 what changed? Brat was the same, Paul Alexander was the same, alot was the same offensively and our defense stunk, what changed? Marvin brought in leadership.I really can't believe I am typing this s**t to defend Marvin from Bengals fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ickey44 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Marvin is the reason we're where we are right now. You guys act like he never drafted anyone of questionable character before. He did it all the time in Baltimore. Ray Lewis is a prime example. It worked there, so now he's confident he can change everybody. I believe his thinking is that talent can't be taught, but character can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Marvin is the reason we're where we are right now. You guys act like he never drafted anyone of questionable character before. He did it all the time in Baltimore. Ray Lewis is a prime example. It worked there, so now he's confident he can change everybody. I believe his thinking is that talent can't be taught, but character can.I think you're probably right - that's the rumor mill anyway. But I wish he'd realize that there are some character issues that can't usually be cleaned up. Like, say, sexual assault, which tends to have a high rate of recidivism. So maybe the Frostee pick was a bad decisionFor what it's worth, he did keep Henry under control during the season. Maybe Marvin needs him to move into his house and give him a curfew next offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ickey44 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I don't know, wasn't Henry's first arrest in December??Unfortunately, Marvin or the Bengals really can't touch him because of the CBA. Only the league can punish him. I think that once he's convicted on all four arrests, he probably won't be in the league much longer after that. Or, mayber he'll learn from his mistakes. Here's hoping..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richmond_mat Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Coach Lewis is the best thing that has happened to this franchise since it hired Forrest Gregg.Brat's success is in spite of himself. It's been a while since I've watched them play but I recall way too many three and outs. First down- incomplete pass....second down- 3.5 up the gut...third down failure...punt. With this much talent on offense, you could draw plays in the dirt and be successful every third or fourth possession. For such an offensive genius, where's the TE?JUST WIN BABY. What I am learning through this is that the nfl needs to make it easier to dismiss players from your roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Coach Lewis is the best thing that has happened to this franchise since it hired Forrest Gregg.Brat's success is in spite of himself. It's been a while since I've watched them play but I recall way too many three and outs. First down- incomplete pass....second down- 3.5 up the gut...third down failure...punt. With this much talent on offense, you could draw plays in the dirt and be successful every third or fourth possession. For such an offensive genius, where's the TE?JUST WIN BABY. What I am learning through this is that the nfl needs to make it easier to dismiss players from your roster.So what you are saying is, when things don't work out for the offense it's Brat's fault and he is doing all the play calling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ickey44 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I don't know what he's trying to say, but as far as I know, Brat does do all the play calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I don't know what he's trying to say, but as far as I know, Brat does do all the play calling.So when the offense puts up 30+ points per game and is ranked in the top 5 in the league it is because Marvin is the genius? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Its because Marvin has put a plan together and gotten the coaches and players to buy into the plan, again when brat leaves Zampeze will be the new Offensive Coordinator and will do as good or better a job.What is a head coach? He is a leader, an organizer and responsible for the overall direction of the team. Marvin IS responsible for the offense scoring 30 pts a game even though he does not call the plays simply because he is responsible for the overall direction of the team and putting the pieces together to create a winning system. Marvin works with the offensive coaches developing a gameplan, he works with the defensive coaches developing a game plan and like any leader he instructs the people under him as to what he expects from them. A head coach is just like a CEO of a company (and being a CEO I know what this is like from first hand experience). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Its because Marvin has put a plan together and gotten the coaches and players to buy into the plan, again when brat leaves Zampeze will be the new Offensive Coordinator and will do as good or better a job.What is a head coach? He is a leader, an organizer and responsible for the overall direction of the team. Marvin IS responsible for the offense scoring 30 pts a game even though he does not call the plays simply because he is responsible for the overall direction of the team and putting the pieces together to create a winning system. Marvin works with the offensive coaches developing a gameplan, he works with the defensive coaches developing a game plan and like any leader he instructs the people under him as to what he expects from them. A head coach is just like a CEO of a company (and being a CEO I know what this is like from first hand experience).Well put! So if he is so instrumental in all this, why hasn't the defense developed as well as the offense, especially with his defensive background? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 You will see substantial improvement in the defense this year.I don't know about you but I have seen improvement in the defense every year since Marvin's first year. Year #1 we lost our best defensive player and had a brand new scheme. Year #2 we had a false start with a defensive coordinator that didn't agree with the head coaches philosophy he was let go. Year #3 new defensive coordinator. Year #4 BIG improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ickey44 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I don't know what he's trying to say, but as far as I know, Brat does do all the play calling.So when the offense puts up 30+ points per game and is ranked in the top 5 in the league it is because Marvin is the genius?Did I say that? No. Quit being retarded. Bratkowski is good at drawing up offensive plays, that's about it. His playcalling, at times, is questionable.As for the offense being way better than the defense, Brat's been the coordinator since 2001. Everyone knows the system and is comfortable with it. How many different Defensive coordinators have we had in that time? I can think of three. There's been no continuity on defense as far as leadership.Don't get me wrong, I think Brat's a good coordinator, but that's it. To suggest he's even remotely capable of doing what Marvin has done, or better, is ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 This is freaking RETARDED!!!!!!Marvin is still a great freaking coach. He rolled the dice on some players LIKE EVERY OTHER TEAM IN THE FREAKING LEAGUE and got bit. However, just because Odell has a 4 game suspension, does that make him not a good pick? HELL NO. He's got more talent than where he was drafted. He needs to be reigned in and mature. I believe Marvin can do it. Just because Chris Henry appears to be lacking two brain cells to rub together, does that mean he was a bad pick? HELL NO. His talent is far beyond where he was drafted. We need him to mature and stay out of trouble. However, has he missed any real time yet? Is he in jail? No. Will he miss an entire season? Unlikely. Will he still be able to make some big plays and be a big part of the team? Very likely. He has the talent. What happened to the Ravens when they had player after player facing courtroom trials? THEY WON.Just win baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 For one thing... until Pollack, Marvin used all the earliest picks to bolster the offense and give Palmer weapons. The theory being, "What use is a franchise QB with no weapons." Not even a defensive genius can get results with a bunch of journeymen and cast offs... and we had Frazier, who didn't see eye to eye with Marvin. We are starting to get better personel now, and we got a new defensive coordinator last year. If we continue to suck, you can ask Marvin about it, but last year was the first year we had first round selections on defense, and they were rookies, and everyone was learning a new scheme.Marvin hasn't had a losing season in Cincinnati, and this came right off the heels ofa 2-14 season. You're either fair weather, or you have no idea what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadraftnick Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 If Marvin were to go I would want Ken Zampese to be Head Coach.Back in the old days we had a guy on our staff who applied to be the new coach,his name was BILL WALSH(maybe you have heard of him),Paul Brown felt that he coludn't be tough enough on the players and went instead with Homer Rice,who had just coached Rice U. to a loosing record.Of course Walsh went on to be a Hall of Fame coach and win quite a few Super Bowls.That is how I see Ken Zampese.Zampeze's father was behind the SanDiego offense of the 80's,and Ken has soaked up NFL offense since he was a child.If you remember he is the guy that created Kurt Warner from whole cloth and was part of creating the Greatest Show on Turf offense that owned the NFL for a couple of years.Then he turned Carson Palmer into an even better QB than he had been in colleage,which is never done especialy in a guys first year starting.Dont forget Bratkowski's offense was OK but not exactly the best in the NFL,the offense really stepped up when ?When Zampese showed up.If there is anybody on this staff that we can least afford to loose its Zampese.If Marvin left the #1 guy in my book to take over would be Zampese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I'm so happy I did this thread, but not for the reason it was orignally intended. The original plan was to be silly about another thread, but this thread has shown me something and hopefully a lot of other people on this site...THINGS AREN'T AS BAD AS THEY SEEM !!!Once we get back on the field and there is something worth while to talk about, I think a lot of this crap goes away or at least diminishes... Boy I can't wait to see someone hit someone !!!WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentjett Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Lets compare a great coach to another drug addict. Everybody blames the head coach when the players are getting in trouble but Brat just got in trouble himself last year. Getting a DUI isn't leading by example. Brat is overrated; Zampese could do just as good or even better of a job as OC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I like Zampese as well and would be happy to see Brat go after another 12-4 season. People would think he's HC material and I just don't think he is...WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Why is no one can even question one of Marvin's decisions without being lambasted for it. He's a great coach, but he does make mistakes and I think he's made a few this offseason and it's been exposed.But, this talk of brat replacing marvin is just ridiculous.But, i also think "In Marvin we Trust" is losing a bit of it's luster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 So if he is so instrumental in all this, why hasn't the defense developed as well as the offense, especially with his defensive background?Dead weight + dead money = longer development. Duh!More generally speaking, do you guys see a trend of this in the NFL as a whole; rather than just the Bengals. There's some football player pounding on some poor little woman, juicing up on crack and heroine and coke, etc... And keep in mind, the media only knows what players are caught doing (via the police). I once heard from someone at a bar they saw Nate Webster and he was 'dealing' some coke inconspicuously. I don't know how an NFL linebacker does anything inconspicuously. And this dude was a Bengals fan too!I suspect all teams have just as many, if not more, "charecter" issues than we do. We're just really really bad at not getting caught; if there's something we should work on this season preparing for the off-season, it's THAT!Why is no one can even question one of Marvin's decisions without being lambasted for it.Careful boomer. I know where you live... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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