What the hell is going on?

[jditty47]

keeping our stars come at a price. that means we have to keep alot of cheaper players...aka bench and some starters...that means some rookies will start or cheaper contract players will start. where do u get cheaper contracts? the draft primarily. and since we have top stars at alot of positions we have to risk alot more on the other ones to stay on top of the league. as u all know not all first rounders pan out. and if u can get more first round talent risks for a cheap price why the hell would u not. look at our roster top to bottom now compared to any year previous since 1990. ill take the risks.

[HoosierCat]

Pre-Marvin Bengal teams wouldn't have assumed half of the risks that Lewis has over the last few years

Huh? Seriously: huh? For heaven's sake, Hair, pre-Marvin teams took no end of risks -- and they usually blew up in the face. The most famous one, of course, was Corey Dillon, who had a rap sheet longer than the Kyoto Treaty even before he became a Bengal, and who ended up as much a hindrance off the field as he was a help on it. They regularly rolled the dice on injury risks and one-hit wonders (Ki-Jana, Akili, etc.), and virtually every FA signing was a reclamation project of one sort or another (where are you, Michael Westbrook?).

The current pattern of inducting problem children is just a continuation of something they've been doing for years. In fact, some of the criticism leveled at them over these picks has pointed to just that fact, arguing that now that the team has gotten better it doesn't need to take such risks.

So here we are, asking ourselves today if all of the risks taken will pay off.

And I'm telling you that it already has.

Division championship. Playoff game. Super Bowl contender.

Oh come on. It wasn't taking character risks that got us to the playoffs, it was finally getting a collection of good-to-elite young players (most importantly Carson, Chad, Rudi, Madieu and the o-line), and a few key FAs like James, combined with some decent coaching. Of all the troublemakers, only Odell and Henry made significant contributions -- and distressingly, they are the two problem players who are in the most serious trouble!

[bengalboomer7]

Pre-Marvin Bengal teams wouldn't have assumed half of the risks that Lewis has over the last few years

Huh? Seriously: huh? For heaven's sake, Hair, pre-Marvin teams took no end of risks -- and they usually blew up in the face. The most famous one, of course, was Corey Dillon, who had a rap sheet longer than the Kyoto Treaty even before he became a Bengal, and who ended up as much a hindrance off the field as he was a help on it. They regularly rolled the dice on injury risks and one-hit wonders (Ki-Jana, Akili, etc.), and virtually every FA signing was a reclamation project of one sort or another (where are you, Michael Westbrook?).

The current pattern of inducting problem children is just a continuation of something they've been doing for years. In fact, some of the criticism leveled at them over these picks has pointed to just that fact, arguing that now that the team has gotten better it doesn't need to take such risks.

So here we are, asking ourselves today if all of the risks taken will pay off.

And I'm telling you that it already has.

Division championship. Playoff game. Super Bowl contender.

Oh come on. It wasn't taking character risks that got us to the playoffs, it was finally getting a collection of good-to-elite young players (most importantly Carson, Chad, Rudi, Madieu and the o-line), and a few key FAs like James, combined with some decent coaching. Of all the troublemakers, only Odell and Henry made significant contributions -- and distressingly, they are the two problem players who are in the most serious trouble!

Every action has a reaction. Every decision has a consequence. We took chances on Very talented players in hopes of winning NOW and these are the consequences of taking people with character issues.

You make a good point, HOF. We root for the uniform, but you can only stain that uni soo much and people will turn on you. But, how long will it be before it's the inmates running the asylum

[BengalByTheBay]

Huh? Seriously: huh? For heaven's sake, Hair, pre-Marvin teams took no end of risks -- and they usually blew up in the face. The most famous one, of course, was Corey Dillon, who had a rap sheet longer than the Kyoto Treaty even before he became a Bengal, and who ended up as much a hindrance off the field as he was a help on it.

Huh? Seriously: huh? Corey Dillon was waaaayyyyyy more of a help on the field than he was a hindrance off it. The fact that he was a jackass and left in a totally classless way and made the burger flipping comment would make you think the above only if you didn't witness how good a player he was for a very bad team for several years. You're practicing revisionist history here.

Oh come on. It wasn't taking character risks that got us to the playoffs, it was finally getting a collection of good-to-elite young players (most importantly Carson, Chad, Rudi, Madieu and the o-line), and a few key FAs like James, combined with some decent coaching. Of all the troublemakers, only Odell and Henry made significant contributions -- and distressingly, they are the two problem players who are in the most serious trouble!

What "of all the troublemakers" are you referring to? Odell and Henry were the only "troublemakers" on the team last season. So, by that measure, the troublemakers made a disproportionately large contribution to reaching the playoffs. What other "troublemakers" that have everybody up-in-arms right now were part of the team? If Rucker, Nicholson and Brooks can make that kind of contribution this season, we end up pretty deep in the playoffs would be my prediction.

[Oldcat]

I don't think these gambles have quite the downside some of you seem to because I don't see any sign that Marvin and the Bengals will keep a player for more than a nanosecond more than they are useful.

Examples? Webster was hurt most of a year. We drafted a replacement and wrote him out of our plans. Moore was hurt last year. We drafted a replacement and he's gone. Cleamons got suspended. We cut him and drafted a replacement. Kitna showed he couldnt win the big game as a backup. Sayonara John. We'll try somebody else. Warrick was hurt - then gone.

Henry got into trouble - we drafted 2 WR to possibly take his spot. Odell gets into trouble - and we draft a player to possibly take his spot before its even announced!

If I were those two I'd worry about my locker space and play hard hard hard. Because Marvin has no sympathy for players he can't count on for whatever reason and he hasn't kept them around to cause trouble.

[ArmyBengal]

I still don't see Odell or Henry going anywhere at the present time.

Odell because of his playmaking and Henry for the same playmaking ability and the fact he's still hurt...

I'm hoping both will be back as they make us a better team when things are good.

Please don't read anymore into that than what I said...

WHODEY !!!

[HoosierCat]

Huh? Seriously: huh? Corey Dillon was waaaayyyyyy more of a help on the field than he was a hindrance off it.

A help to what? The 3-13 seasons that Hair references? The theory being espoused here is that, in order to build a winner, we need to take these risks. But here's a risk we took, and one you can even argue panned out, and still didn't get us anywhere. There are lots of things you can argue go into building a winner, but IMHO taking constant character risks isn't one of them. On occasion, yes? As a regular strategy, tho, well, you can see right now what that invites.

What "of all the troublemakers" are you referring to? Odell and Henry were the only "troublemakers" on the team last season.

And their likelihood of being on the team this upcoming season, not to mention down the road, is already in serious doubt -- after both have completed a whole one NFL season! What good is it to have a guy who makes a significant contribution one year and gets run out of the league the next?

This is the point a lot of people seem to miss. Odell and Henry didn't just get caught with a joint and have to go into the substance abuse program. In the space of a single year they have both blown all the way through to suspension-land. Odell is already gone for 4 games and who knows where Henry will end up. Given the fact it took Odell this little time to end up facing a year's suspension, I see no reason to have faith he will mend his ways. I hope he does but I wouldn't bet on it with your money. And we all have seen just exactly how much Henry seems to learn from his mistakes (i.e. not at all).

Coming out of last year, we thought we had MLB -- a position that's lacked a stud player since Simmons moved over in Marvin's freshman year -- and No. 3 WR (and possible successor to TJ, who is after all pushing 30) sewn up. Now, we got two question marks there again. To guard against complete blow-ups there we spent FA dollars, draft picks this year, and now draft picks next year. And that just-used next year's pick just went on yet another possible character time bomb. Sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

[Oldcat]

I still don't see Odell or Henry going anywhere at the present time.

Odell because of his playmaking and Henry for the same playmaking ability and the fact he's still hurt...

I'm hoping both will be back as they make us a better team when things are good.

Oh I agree, they haven't burned all the bridges yet. But they have shown an unreliability that another

smarter player would not. And that could well cause Marvin to move them down the depth chart or off

of it, depending on how good the replacement is. And from all I've seen Marvin is recruiting talented

players at these positions. A false step for any reason could mean the end of your career with the Bengals.

Look at Warrick - an injury and some possible lack of desire in rehab and you go from #2 WR to gone.

Look at Pollack - hold out of training camp and it takes you half the year to work into a starter slot that as a #1 pick that was handed to you by cutting the old starter.

Even leaving aside the embarrassment angle and the team chemistry angle. If Marvin can't count on performance, you won't be in a position to disappoint him or the Bengals for long.

[BengalByTheBay]

Huh? Seriously: huh? Corey Dillon was waaaayyyyyy more of a help on the field than he was a hindrance off it.

A help to what? The 3-13 seasons that Hair references? The theory being espoused here is that, in order to build a winner, we need to take these risks. But here's a risk we took, and one you can even argue panned out, and still didn't get us anywhere. There are lots of things you can argue go into building a winner, but IMHO taking constant character risks isn't one of them. On occasion, yes? As a regular strategy, tho, well, you can see right now what that invites.

What "of all the troublemakers" are you referring to? Odell and Henry were the only "troublemakers" on the team last season.

And their likelihood of being on the team this upcoming season, not to mention down the road, is already in serious doubt -- after both have completed a whole one NFL season! What good is it to have a guy who makes a significant contribution one year and gets run out of the league the next?

This is the point a lot of people seem to miss. Odell and Henry didn't just get caught with a joint and have to go into the substance abuse program. In the space of a single year they have both blown all the way through to suspension-land. Odell is already gone for 4 games and who knows where Henry will end up. Given the fact it took Odell this little time to end up facing a year's suspension, I see no reason to have faith he will mend his ways. I hope he does but I wouldn't bet on it with your money. And we all have seen just exactly how much Henry seems to learn from his mistakes (i.e. not at all).

Coming out of last year, we thought we had MLB -- a position that's lacked a stud player since Simmons moved over in Marvin's freshman year -- and No. 3 WR (and possible successor to TJ, who is after all pushing 30) sewn up. Now, we got two question marks there again. To guard against complete blow-ups there we spent FA dollars, draft picks this year, and now draft picks next year. And that just-used next year's pick just went on yet another possible character time bomb. Sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

How many games do we win without a legitimate homerun RB threat while CD was on the team. 3-13 looks a lot better than 0'fer, which is what it would've been. This team had nothing without Dillon. The only reason Jeff Blake ever got a pass off to Scott or Pickens was the respect given to the running game.

As for Odell and Henry's future, we'll have to see. They have produced for one season. Odell isn't going to Siberia, he is suspended. It happens -- it's not the end of the world. You're saying we got nothing out of his pick when, by all appearances, from game 5 on he should be the starting MLB. Is there a risk that he'll screw-up again? Sure. Life's full of risks. Where you gonna place your bet? That's the whole point.

[bengalboomer7]

Bravo, Joisey. Couldn't have said it better. And this is what it comes down to. Winning is the ultimate goal, the one main thing that matters, and odell and Henry are threatening that winning. it's hard to believe that after one year one guy is already in suspension and another surely on his way. This is after 1 year!!! Now we face the prospect that at any given moment, we could be without our starting MLB and our future starting reciever, just as fast as I can snap my fingers.

[HairOnFire]

The current pattern of inducting problem children is just a continuation of something they've been doing for years.

Yeah, I've pointed that out several times now. And look at where it got the Bengals. At the top of their franchise rushing lists you'll find ex-gang member, drug dealer, and spouse abuser Corey Dillon. Farther down you'll find deadbeat dad James Brooks. Meanwhile, look at the top of many of their franchise receiving records and you'll find the prickish Carl Pickens. Rapidly rising on thoses same receiving lists is Chad Johnson, a player who was kicked off of a college team for various rules violations, fighting, being uncoachable, and poor grades.

I could go on like this all day.

The simple fact of the matter is we're all geeked up over the character issue because Chris Henry melted down in spectacular fashion. It's left us so raw that most of us can't look at the risks being taken on players individually. Instead, we see this crazed desire to embrace the thug life like it was the only thing the Bengals were doing to get better.

The bottom line is they're doing EVERYTHING they can to get better.

[HairOnFire]

Oh come on. It wasn't taking character risks that got us to the playoffs, it was finally getting a collection of good-to-elite young players (most importantly Carson, Chad, Rudi, Madieu and the o-line), and a few key FAs like James, combined with some decent coaching. Of all the troublemakers, only Odell and Henry made significant contributions -- and distressingly, they are the two problem players who are in the most serious trouble!

Stop it. The very point I was making is Marvin's willingness to embrace risk across the board, not simply in regards to risky boom-or-bust players.

For example, how did the Bengals get your boy Madieu Williams? By trading a superstar RB, right?

Pretty risky stuff, ehh?

And how about trading for Pro Bowl CB Deltha O'Neal? Wasn't he a total tear down and rebuild project that the Broncos had given up on?

There's some risk there, right?

How about removing the franchise tag from Takeo Spikes, a young LB still in his prime. When was the last time the Bengals let a player like that go instead of waging endless war on him with restrictive tags and every tool at their disposal? Letting a player of that quality go was risky business, ehh?

Or how about yesterdays draft of Brooks. When have the Bengals used a supplemental draft pick on anyone?

Face it, Marvin is willing to risk more to win a championship than you would.

[Spor_tees]

Some of you guys are talking about how the risks that Marvin has taken, and that all his draft picks are making so much a difference on this team...but someone else brought up the point that,

A. Marvin is a defensive coach and our defense has sucked ass since he has been here

B. If you go through player by player, Eventhough he purged several "problem childs" off the roster, a small portion of the guys starting are guys he drafted

So where is all this "pay off" for taking these risks? Other than the fact that the Cincinnati Bengals are all over every sports page in the country on a daily basis from all the knuckleheads on the team.

[Stripes]

So where is all this "pay off" for taking these risks? Other than the fact that the Cincinnati Bengals are all over every sports page in the country on a daily basis from all the knuckleheads on the team.

It's not just the draft, Spor Tees. Hair lists some great examples in the post above yours.

As far as the draft goes, there have been successful players taken at risk. Madieu is the first obvious example. He may not have come into the league with character questions, but few people viewed him as a second round talent. I expect a similar showing from Domata Peko and Andrew Whitworth. Other previous Marvin draftees with similar stories are Landon (as Kazkal likes to say, he'd be a starter if Odell hadn't fallen to the second round) or Tab Perry.

The character risks have also paid huge dividends. Suspension well at hand, Odell was arguably the best rookie LB in the NFL last season. Worthy trade-off if you ask me. Henry WAS the best rookie WR in the NFL last year.

The young talent is what makes this team dangerous, even if they are dangerous off the field as well.

[HairOnFire]

So where is all this "pay off" for taking these risks? Other than the fact that the Cincinnati Bengals are all over every sports page in the country on a daily basis from all the knuckleheads on the team.

Let the sportswriters have their fun. If the Bengals keep winning they'll have to write about that too. And no matter how much trouble they got into nobody took the championships or fawning headlines away from teams like the old Raiders, Cowboys, or Ravens.

As for your point about where the payoff is, well...I'll get to that. But first, how about we wait for these guys to get a chance to play a freaking down of football. Rucker, Nicholson, and Brooks haven't gotten a chance to flash or fail, so it's a little bit unfair to whine that you're not impressed yet. As for Thurman, you saw what he could do last year. Are you really going to tell me that you preferred to see another season of Kevin Hardy?

No disrespect intended, but you Chicken-Little types need to get a grip on your butt cheeks with both hands. Seriously, you need to start understanding something that is so basic that most of you are missing it. The very reason Marvin is taking these types of risks is due to how bare the cupboard was on the defensive side of the ball when he took over. He inherited a defense that had only two or three starters that were worth keeping, and there was almost no depth to be had anywhere.

But before addressing that defense in the manner most expected Lewis chose instead to add important starters and depth to the offense, quickly transforming it into one of the NFL's best, and a unit that could win it's share of games right from the start. So there's your payoff. To the lasting shock of almost everyone the endless losing stopped immediately and winning quickly followed. And the only downside of that winning strategy is the defensive transformation during this time was limited to adding depth everywhere and one or two important players every offseason.

But the defense is close now, and the offense is not only elite, but all of the skill position players are locked up long-term. Knowing that to be true, there will be no better time to take a few risks with a couple of mid-round draft choices. And for all of the gnashing of teeth it should be remembered that the much maligned trio of Rucker, Nicholson, and Brooks have only cost the Bengals a 5th round pick and two 3rd rounders picks. Frankly, the whole bunch could flame out without any lasting impact.

It should also be noted that for all of the talk of arrest after arrest involving this guy and then that guy...one player has been responsible for 85% of the arrests. And I predict the remaining 15% will quickly disappear without a single Bengal player missing a single game.

[Spor_tees]

Ok, I can play this game too.

First off let's look at Marvin's draft history with this "brilliant" scheme.

The offense that you say has been pieced together by Marvin to be so "elite" was more like a dad handing over the keys to a sports car to his 16 year old son. Carson was already there, Chad was already there, TJ was already there, Rudi was ALREADY there, Willie, Braham, J.J., Kenny Watson, Levi,Kelly Washington, and Stienbach, ALREADY there. Now what has Marvin done to beef up this "Elite" offense? He brought in Bobbie Williams...and he drafted Chris Henry, Tab Perry, and Chris Perry. That was a brilliant draft pick his first year! Man I don't know where this offense would be to this day if Marvin hadn't come in and drafted Chris Perry (Serious Sarcasm here). Ok I think we can now establish that the exp[losion of the offense was not because of Marvin Lewis, but instead the fact that Brat was held onto and there was some kind of stability left.

Now, let's take a look at the defense and what Marvin's draft picks have done for it. Justin Smith already there, John Thorton already there, Brian Simmons already there, Tory James already there, KK already there.

So on defense Marvin has drafted Fanene, Geathers, Askew, S. Smith, Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Odell Thurman, Peko, Keiwan Ratliff, and Madieu Williams.

Also remaining on the team the free agents he has brought in or players he has traded for include, Sam Adams, Deltha O'neal, Bryan Robinson, Dexter Jackson, and Rashad Bauman.

Now some of these guys have yet to play so we can't judge them, but that sure seems like a lot of action on the defensive side of the ball without getting some serious results. The offense has been what has been winning games for the Bengals, and it is obvious that Marvin has nothing to do with the offense and almost the entire unit was here before he even got here. If you want to credit anyone with the rise of the offense of this team you need to give credit to Bobbie B.

So yes, I can comment about how I don't agree with Marvin's draft strategy, and yes I can comment how I dissagree on where this team is going. Only in Cincinnati can a city look at a coach as an n when he has had one winning season! I'm a Bengals' fan but damn people, there are a lot of coaches out there that could have done just as much,maybe even better. And when you have to make a disgrace and embarrassment out ofthe city you live in just to have ONE winning season, I don't say the ends justify the means.

Whether you want to believe it or not, these guys are role models, and all the Bengals are doing is setting up false icons that set a bad example to all the kids of the Tri-state area, and I for one think it is sickening.

[Stripes]

Ok, I can play this game too.

First off let's look at Marvin's draft history with this "brilliant" scheme.

The offense that you say has been pieced together by Marvin to be so "elite" was more like a dad handing over the keys to a sports car to his 16 year old son. Carson was already there, Chad was already there, TJ was already there, Rudi was ALREADY there, Willie, Braham, J.J., Kenny Watson, Levi,Kelly Washington, and Stienbach, ALREADY there. Now what has Marvin done to beef up this "Elite" offense? He brought in Bobbie Williams...and he drafted Chris Henry, Tab Perry, and Chris Perry. That was a brilliant draft pick his first year! Man I don't know where this offense would be to this day if Marvin hadn't come in and drafted Chris Perry (Serious Sarcasm here). Ok I think we can now establish that the exp[losion of the offense was not because of Marvin Lewis, but instead the fact that Brat was held onto and there was some kind of stability left.

Now, let's take a look at the defense and what Marvin's draft picks have done for it. Justin Smith already there, John Thorton already there, Brian Simmons already there, Tory James already there, KK already there.

So on defense Marvin has drafted Fanene, Geathers, Askew, S. Smith, Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Odell Thurman, Peko, Keiwan Ratliff, and Madieu Williams.

Also remaining on the team the free agents he has brought in or players he has traded for include, Sam Adams, Deltha O'neal, Bryan Robinson, Dexter Jackson, and Rashad Bauman.

Now some of these guys have yet to play so we can't judge them, but that sure seems like a lot of action on the defensive side of the ball without getting some serious results. The offense has been what has been winning games for the Bengals, and it is obvious that Marvin has nothing to do with the offense and almost the entire unit was here before he even got here. If you want to credit anyone with the rise of the offense of this team you need to give credit to Bobbie B.

So yes, I can comment about how I don't agree with Marvin's draft strategy, and yes I can comment how I dissagree on where this team is going. Only in Cincinnati can a city look at a coach as an n when he has had one winning season! I'm a Bengals' fan but damn people, there are a lot of coaches out there that could have done just as much,maybe even better. And when you have to make a disgrace and embarrassment out ofthe city you live in just to have ONE winning season, I don't say the ends justify the means.

Whether you want to believe it or not, these guys are role models, and all the Bengals are doing is setting up false icons that set a bad example to all the kids of the Tri-state area, and I for one think it is sickening.

First of all, Marvin Lewis DID draft Carson Palmer, Eric Steinbach, Jeremi Johnson, and Kelly Washington. He DID bring Kenny Watson with him from the Redskins. That was the meat of the 2003 draft, and Marvin was at the helm for all of it. The only offensive players you listed that he really did inherit were Rudi Johnson, Levi Jones, and Chad Johnson. That alone pretty much renders your entire post useless.

Bratkowski might very well have contributed to the offensive growth with continuity and a knack for throwing the football, but that doesn't mean in any way that Marvin deserves zero credit for its development. He drafted the players and he brought them in. He is the head friggin' coach.

As for the defense, you're right. So far during Marvin's tenure, it has sucked. Would you rather he waste all his money on expensive defensive free agents and draft exactly as the prognosticators suggest so our team can be thoroughly average?

Building a real, championship caliber defense takes a long time and a lot of planning. Marvin's plan may be a bit extreme, but it is working. The pieces have been put in place, and we are going to really start seeing a real change on the field. Yeah, everybody that says that sounds like a homer, but Marvin hasn't let us down yet.

15 years is a long time to go without a playoff game. The man mostly responsible for changing that is going to have my trust until he really f**ks something up. Having a bunch of players get into meaningless (to football) scuffles with the law during a meaningless offseason doesn't qualify as such for me.

[derekshank]

Hair's right on this one. Without Henry's meltdown, the Bengals only have one headline this off-season... and it's Odell's suspension. Henry melted down in such a way as to draw the entire country's gaze to Cincinnati as if it were Sauron looking for Frodo. (Wow... what a geek I am).

Anyway... Rucker, Nicholson... these are not head-line names that would be remembered by PFT, or Trey Wingo and the crack squad at ESPN if it hadn't been for Chris Henry bringing so much negative attention to Cincy before they were drafted.

Santonio Holmes actions should have embarrassed the Steelers far more than any of our risky picks exlcuding Henry... and he was a 1st rounder they traded up for. Even Ben's mistake should be a bigger embarassment than any of our draft picks this year. But the Steelers get a pass for the most part, because they are champions.

I still expect Henry to depart, and our team to return to normal. Who knows what will happen with Odell in the future? I don't... and it's a big problem... but I'm not going to interpret the past crimes of every player we get through the lens of Chris Henry. Henry is a menace to society. Most of these other guys are just immature.

[ArmyBengal]

Good post Derek and nice Lord of the Rings reference !!!

WHODEY !!!

[HairOnFire]

Ok, I can play this game too.

No, you can't. Anyone who doesn't know which coach drafted Carson Palmer, and half a dozen others, has to sit this one out.

[richmond_mat]

Only in Cincinnati can a city look at a coach as an n when he has had one winning season! I'm a Bengals' fan but damn people, there are a lot of coaches out there that could have done just as much,maybe even better. And when you have to make a disgrace and embarrassment out ofthe city you live in just to have ONE winning season, I don't say the ends justify the means.

Whether you want to believe it or not, these guys are role models, and all the Bengals are doing is setting up false icons that set a bad example to all the kids of the Tri-state area, and I for one think it is sickening.

Yep cincy is one backward conservative town. Could you name one of these coaches? Coach Lewis has done a terrific job with this franchise. If you're worried about the kids then adopt. If your kids are taking any athletes as role models then you are failing as a parent.

There hasn't been a losing team since coach came.

[Spor_tees]

Only in Cincinnati can a city look at a coach as an n when he has had one winning season! I'm a Bengals' fan but damn people, there are a lot of coaches out there that could have done just as much,maybe even better. And when you have to make a disgrace and embarrassment out ofthe city you live in just to have ONE winning season, I don't say the ends justify the means.

Whether you want to believe it or not, these guys are role models, and all the Bengals are doing is setting up false icons that set a bad example to all the kids of the Tri-state area, and I for one think it is sickening.

Yep cincy is one backward conservative town. Could you name one of these coaches? Coach Lewis has done a terrific job with this franchise. If you're worried about the kids then adopt. If your kids are taking any athletes as role models then you are failing as a parent.

There hasn't been a losing team since coach came.

If you think that if a kid takes on a pro athlete as a role model then its because a parent has bad parenting skills, then you sir have lost touch with reality. Any kid that ever plays sports and dreamed of making it to the pros, picks some athlete that he wants to become. I myself remember as a kid when myself and all my friends would play basketball and we would all try to do all the "moves" of our favorite players. Or whjen we would play tennis ball in the backyard and we would try to take a batting stance of our favorite players, (I had Eric Davis bat twirl down perfect! )

The unfortunate thing is, that though most times it is subconciencely, these players off the field behaviors also affect kids too. If a kid looks at a professional player and sees him making millions of dollars playing a game that he also wants to play some day, and that same player is in the news for hitting his wife, doing drugs, or some other crime, and subsequently goes unpunished, that kid sees those actions as ok. In fact some kids then see being a pro athlete as a "get-out-of-jail-free card" that drives them even harder to make it to the pros.

Soinstead of trying to take pot shots at my parenting skills, which I am not even a parent, pull your head out of the sand and think back to when you were a kid and what players you looked up to.

[richmond_mat]

Only in Cincinnati can a city look at a coach as an n when he has had one winning season! I'm a Bengals' fan but damn people, there are a lot of coaches out there that could have done just as much,maybe even better. And when you have to make a disgrace and embarrassment out ofthe city you live in just to have ONE winning season, I don't say the ends justify the means.

Whether you want to believe it or not, these guys are role models, and all the Bengals are doing is setting up false icons that set a bad example to all the kids of the Tri-state area, and I for one think it is sickening.

Yep cincy is one backward conservative town. Could you name one of these coaches? Coach Lewis has done a terrific job with this franchise. If you're worried about the kids then adopt. If your kids are taking any athletes as role models then you are failing as a parent.

There hasn't been a losing team since coach came.

If you think that if a kid takes on a pro athlete as a role model then its because a parent has bad parenting skills, then you sir have lost touch with reality. Any kid that ever plays sports and dreamed of making it to the pros, picks some athlete that he wants to become. I myself remember as a kid when myself and all my friends would play basketball and we would all try to do all the "moves" of our favorite players. Or whjen we would play tennis ball in the backyard and we would try to take a batting stance of our favorite players, (I had Eric Davis bat twirl down perfect! )

The unfortunate thing is, that though most times it is subconciencely, these players off the field behaviors also affect kids too. If a kid looks at a professional player and sees him making millions of dollars playing a game that he also wants to play some day, and that same player is in the news for hitting his wife, doing drugs, or some other crime, and subsequently goes unpunished, that kid sees those actions as ok. In fact some kids then see being a pro athlete as a "get-out-of-jail-free card" that drives them even harder to make it to the pros.

Soinstead of trying to take pot shots at my parenting skills, which I am not even a parent, pull your head out of the sand and think back to when you were a kid and what players you looked up to.

So what coach did you name?

Athletes are not role models. That is something good parenting should always indicate.

Don't take things so personally.

And who is going unpunished?

[Spor_tees]

Richmond what coach do you want me to name? If you mean a coach the Bengals could have brought in and done what Marvin has done, how about promoting Bratkowski? The guy has been here this entire time and the offense has done nothing but grow! Or how about Dennis Green? Fact is, Marvin might just have taken over the Bengals at the right time. Do you think Jon Gruden deserved all the credit for Tampa's Superbowl? Tony Dungy put all the big pieces in place for that.

I am not to tally discrediting everything Marvin has done, I think he was a great hire for Cincy at the time. Unfortunately I think he needs to take blame for his poor decisions just as much as he gets credit for his good ones. The problem is, at this point in time, instead of building on the good things that has happenned and done everything in the world to build on the confidence this team has built off of last years AFC NOrth Championship, this off-season has been nothing but turmoil and bad P.R. When you have a set of good young players in place, why not draft more sure thing players than risks with character issues? And even if you take one, ok, but 3? And especially when 2 of the ones you have already taken have blown up in your face off-the-field.

That's just the point I am trying to make and many others are on here as well. This has pretty much become one of those arguments where no one is going to convince the other. Just like politics, religion, and "?the over or under" on the toilet paper roll.

[HairOnFire]

The problem is, at this point in time, instead of building on the good things that has happenned and done everything in the world to build on the confidence this team has built off of last years AFC NOrth Championship, this off-season has been nothing but turmoil and bad P.R. When you have a set of good young players in place, why not draft more sure thing players than risks with character issues?

You're right, the Bengals haven't won a single game since the season ended.

And the offseason news has been nothing but bad. Carson Palmer's career is probably over, right?

And last, why couldn't the Bengals have drafted more "sure thing players" in the 3rd and 5th round of this years draft?

Sportee, you're breathing some rare air this morning.