Outside the Lines

[BlainThePain]

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted, but if it has, and I missed it, just throw this away.

On Outside the Lines today they did an episode mainly about Frostee Rucker. They had 3 or 4 women on there that he has abused in the past, and one (I think from his high school years) that accused him of rape and gave a pretty graphic description of it. By the way they all described him, he seemed like the biggest narcissist you could come across, and he was somebody that thought he was above everything and everyone. They also had a private investigator on there that said he went to the Bengals (and the other NFL teams) before the draft and told them he had information on Rucker that they should know about and he said the Bengals told him they didn't want it.

[jjakq27]

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted, but if it has, and I missed it, just throw this away.

On Outside the Lines today they did an episode mainly about Frostee Rucker. They had 3 or 4 women on there that he has abused in the past, and one (I think from his high school years) that accused him of rape and gave a pretty graphic description of it. By the way they all described him, he seemed like the biggest narcissist you could come across, and he was somebody that thought he was above everything and everyone. They also had a private investigator on there that said he went to the Bengals (and the other NFL teams) before the draft and told them he had information on Rucker that they should know about and he said the Bengals told him they didn't want it.

Wow, that's some serious s**t. I guess Marvin and Co. believe they can reform anyone. However, so far they've missed badly on Corey Dillon and now Chris Henry. This year's draft class is starting to be an embarassment. PB is rolling over somewhere right now.

[rwalling]

I really hate that ESPN, like most media outlets, seems to have forgotten about this idea we have lived with in the US called due process. ESPN took it upon themselves to try, judge and convict Rucker in the court of public opinion. Without a judge, without a jury of his peers, without someone representing Rucker. ESPN controlled all of the content and all of the opinions and "evidence" presented.

Whether RUcker is innocent or guilty THIS IS WRONG!

This type of "journalism" at its worst prevents the accused from getting a fair trial by biasing large portions of the available jury members.

Let's see of the courts can do their job?!

[AGrizzlyBaer]

back in april we were fliping out over taking this guy so early because of his lack of tallent let alone his character issues. man what a worthless pick

[bengalboomer7]

I really hate that ESPN, like most media outlets, seems to have forgotten about this idea we have lived with in the US called due process. ESPN took it upon themselves to try, judge and convict Rucker in the court of public opinion. Without a judge, without a jury of his peers, without someone representing Rucker. ESPN controlled all of the content and all of the opinions and "evidence" presented.

Whether RUcker is innocent or guilty THIS IS WRONG!

This type of "journalism" at its worst prevents the accused from getting a fair trial by biasing large portions of the available jury members.

Let's see of the courts can do their job?!

I've been noticing lately every time PFT or ESPn or anyone rags on the Bengals too many people go into full defense mode. It's journalism, their job is to create controversey and conversation. People can voice opinons, and people can disagree.

Plus, where there's smoke, their's usually fire.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

yeah I have to admit, that I have a hard time rooting for this type of person.

I honestly hope he doesn't make the team or is kicked off/not signed, and someone else steps up and takes his place.

Now that said, there are a lot of football players (college) who are womanizers, abusers and a$$holes. I played with a bunch of them.

But that also tells me that if you're notorious as a college fball player for abusing women, then you're probably a real jacka$$.

I simply cannot "cheer" or "root" for someone who abuses women on a regular basis.

If Rucker does not set-up or heavily support a women's shelter, reforms himself, and contributes to causes that aid battered women, I have no use for this guy and honestly hope he never wears stripes.

Marvin - uh, please stop drafting unlikeable players. There are other talented people out there that can help out here.

Women of Cincinnati - watch out!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I really hate that ESPN, like most media outlets, seems to have forgotten about this idea we have lived with in the US called due process. ESPN took it upon themselves to try, judge and convict Rucker in the court of public opinion. Without a judge, without a jury of his peers, without someone representing Rucker. ESPN controlled all of the content and all of the opinions and "evidence" presented.

Whether RUcker is innocent or guilty THIS IS WRONG!

This type of "journalism" at its worst prevents the accused from getting a fair trial by biasing large portions of the available jury members.

Let's see of the courts can do their job?!

Oh please. First, he'll get a fair trial unless you can convince me that you can't find 12 people in LA who didn't watch the Outside the Lines special. They found 12 people who didn't know what was going on with OJ, I bet they'll find a jury for Frostee.

Second, he actually does have a conviction already for one of the offenses, and he was kicked out of Colorado state. If this was the first time he'd faced charges at all, I might agree with you. If this was the first time he'd faced sexual assault charges, maybe still. But this is, I believe, the third time he's faced charges related to violence to women. I'm not buying the choir boy routine.

Third, they did a pretty fair job of journalism. They presented the facts and didn't do a bunch of editorializing. The fact is that he's been accused of sexual assault by multiple women in two states, none of which knew each other. I'm not chalking that up to coincidence.

Fourth, it's the job of the court to be blind and to presume reasonable doubt. That's not the job of society. Quite frankly, I want to know when someone like that moves into my town or becomes part of an organization I support. Part of being famous entails paying a reckoning for your crimes in public opinion that will be more damning than the judicial system. If that's something you can't handle, then don't become a professional athlete. Without the fame that comes with it, these guys wouldn't be making $10/hr, let alone $1M/yr. Fame cuts both ways.

[Spain]

The only reason these guys fall to us because we take first round talent in the later rounds. Its a gamble ok, but if Marvin hits 50% we will be dominant. So get off your high horses I have bad character issues and Im the s**t at my job!!!!

[Bipolar The Titan]

I thought we had it rough with Pacman Jones.

[andybren]

The only reason these guys fall to us because we take first round talent in the later rounds. Its a gamble ok, but if Marvin hits 50% we will be dominant. So get off your high horses I have bad character issues and Im the s**t at my job!!!!

You may be the s**t at your job, but your job doesn't include thousands of people rooting for you.

Obviously there are fans who don't care about the people wearing the jerseys, as long as they win.

But others, including myself, take personal pride in the team they have chosen to root for, and want the team to employ players who work hard, play by the rules and win graciously.

Or, to put it in another way, if I run into a Bengal at my local grocery store, I want to be able to invite him over for dinner without hesitation.

I don't think I could do that with Frostee Rucker.

[Dadraftnick]

THINK ABOUT IT,do you think that all of these people just decided to make up lies about Rucker?????

Do you think the priviate eye and ESPN put their reputations on the line just to slime Rucker ??

PLEASE!

Why would they ALL want to lie about Rucker? Because they dont like the Bengals?

COME ON !!!

I told you guys about this guy, he is a straight up thug.I told you guys he was taken off pretty much everyone elses board.

To those that say,he can get out of it with a good lawyer,or he's innocent until proven guilty--

I say -Do you really want a guy like that on your team??A rapist ? A theif?

Bad character guys like Pickens and Dillon who only thought only about themselves are how this team went through the long playoff drought that we just got out of.

Those two delivered on the field so thier character was overlooked but, the younger players picked up thier bad habbits and attitudes and the next thing you know is everybody hates the coach,organization,ect.

[Spain]

Somrtimes guys grow out of it,CJ. Im tired of picking preachers and losing. If we did the guys we would of had probably wouldnt make the team. Also those things are in the past give the guy a chance. He is not Henry yet.

[rwalling]

It's journalism, their job is to create controversey and conversation.

Plus, where there's smoke, their's usually fire.

[derekshank]

Are you serious?

What happened to journalists reporting the news?

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This attitude is mind boggling to me.

Another sign of civilization in decline...

No... a sign of civilization in decline is when you have multiple women accusing a guy of sexual abuse, and you are pissed that it got reported.

The truth is that innocence until proven guilty has always been strictly for the judicial system, never for public opinion. How many people really think O.J. or Michael Jackson are innocent? Well, there was apparently reasonable doubt to keep from locking them away for the rest of their lives, but for me it only has to be more likely than not.

If I was on a jury, I might have to let him go, because I can't be 100% sure he did it. I don't want to send someone to prison for something they might not have done. But I can keep my opinion that he did it.

There were problems with this special... but not the ones you have pointed out. You're just pissed that the Bengals got caught selecting another guy with character problems.

[andybren]

Somrtimes guys grow out of it,CJ. Im tired of picking preachers and losing. If we did the guys we would of had probably wouldnt make the team. Also those things are in the past give the guy a chance. He is not Henry yet.

Maybe you didn't notice, but we're not losing anymore. And a large part of that turnaround is due to guys like Marvin, Carson and Rudi. Guys you would seem to call "preachers".

I didn't see the Outside the Lines piece, but I believe the most recent charges against Frostee are still pending. They're not "the past". And if he's done similar things in the past, with new charges pending, it's not about getting a second chance, it's about being a recitivist criminal.

It's journalism, their job is to create controversey and conversation.

Plus, where there's smoke, their's usually fire.

Are you serious?

What happened to journalists reporting the news?

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This attitude is mind boggling to me.

Another sign of civilization in decline...

And yes, this whole thing is news. Crime in society is newsworthy. Crime in the sports world is newsworthy to ESPN. Are they not supposed to report when an athlete is accused of a crime?

Journalists aren't supposed to "create" controversy as a part of their job. However, the controversy created by a story doesn't make the story any less newsworthy. If anything, it makes it more newsworthy.

People talking about a controversial situation is usually a good indication of whether or not reporters should be reporting it. Look at how many people post here about Henry, AJ and Frostee, and tell me it's not newsworthy.

What if the show wasn't about how an athlete was continuously targetting women, but instead talked about how women were continuously targetting a particular athlete with false charges? Would that sort of story be permitable? Or would we need a verdict before we could discuss it?

[Dan2330]

We better watch it, soon we may hear comparisions to the Oakland Raiders...

LOL @ the thought of Mike Brown being compared to Al Davis

[kingwilly]

We can debate all day the role of the media and journalistic intergrity. I did not see the special but being in SoCal and being loaded up with USC news over the past 4 years, I can tell you this guy is, first and foremost, not worth an r3 pick and secondly a big jerk based on his past indiscretions.

The legal system can sort out any illegal behavior Frostee is accuctomed to...that is their job.

The media can report on and update news of an athletes issues, that is their job and, yes, it is news. When Frostee gets accused once, it may get a blurb and most will hold thier judgement...second time, regardelss of the outcome of incident 1, some would say this guyh has a problem. The third time, absolutely regardless of the outcome of the previous 2 incidents, almost everyone would have come to the conclusion that this guy is bad news and even if he is totally exonerated, would proceed with caution as it relates to mr. Rucker.

What I find most disappointing is that, regardless of talent level, this "Character Gamble" has become a pattern for this staff. It is my opinion that there were plenty of players at or above Frostee's talent level that wouldn't have come with the baggage. This staff has walked a fine line with these gamble picks and now they have bitten them.

Another way to look at this would be if the staff kept taking guys with major injury issues. Maybe the players never get injured again....maybe they play 2 games and their career is over. The bottom line is it costs the team the time and energy, not to mention the task of replacing the hurt player...the parallel is there but I'd submit a character issue guy is worse than an injured guy. An injured guy can still be around, helping, participating and being part of the team. Charter guy may be sitting in jail, or suspended from the team, away from the facility, contributing nothing but distraction and detraction.

Rolling the dice on Henry, Nicholson and Rucker are turning out to be poor chices that will cost the bengals more than the potential of the draft picks of where each was selected. It costs the team respect, credibility and tarnishes the image of a staff that has, up to now, seemed to be very with it and together. If these players somehow reform and stay away from the trouble that seems to find them, then the staff can take pride in not only building a better team, but helping a young troubled player learn about accountability and maturity, and maybe the team will be better for it. I just think the risk is now just too high and that you can build the team with players of higher character devoid of issues of this magnitude.

[DontPushMe]

back in april we were fliping out over taking this guy so early because of his lack of tallent let alone his character issues. man what a worthless pick

No, clueless fans flipped out because of "lack of talent." I think he could of been a 2nd round pick if it werent for his off the field issues. Just wait until (if) this guy gets on the field, it will quiet the people like you down. He was argueably the best player on USC's defense.

btw, what a stupid show that was, i broke out laughing when they had that overly dramatic shot at the end of the girl accusing him of something walking down a beach with her hands in her pockets, what a joke

[walshfan]

If any of you think the "character" of a player is really a concern of Lewis and his staff your out to lunch.

simple truth is if a player can contribute they'll sign him just as most teams will...

[Stripes]

If any of you think the "character" of a player is really a concern of Lewis and his staff your out to lunch.

simple truth is if a player can contribute they'll sign him just as most teams will...

I'd say character is a concern of Marvin's during the Draft, but he's not going to let a bunch of ESPN b/s change his mind about a player. I thank him for that.

[Dadraftnick]

I realy cant believe some of you guys STILL are on this guys bandwagon.

One story could be a case where someone is trying to set up the guy, a mad ex,some one jealous,ect....

But, there is a mountain of sutff on this guy.

To those thinking he will turn it around and turn over a new leaf.

If Rucker and for that matter Nicholson and Henry were going to straighten up wouldn't you think they would have their last year in school ?

Think about it,a person with common sense would straighten up their last year in school,that way they could say to scouts(even if it weren't true)"I have turned my life arround "in order to get drafted higher and make more money.

The fact that none of the three of them have shows me they are either too dumb to change or are not able to.

As dumb as Henry is at least he waited until after he was signed to begin his crime spree.

Nicholson and Rucker have been arrested several times after getting drafted and BEFORE getting signed.

That also tells me they are to dumb or too rotten to change.

If these stories are true these guys are sexual preditors and they are seldom able to change.

All of you guys that want us to hold on to Rucker and for that matter Nicholson and Henry until they turn it arround.

Would you feel the same if the woman that one of these guys raped,sexually assualted,or beat up was your wife,girlfriend,daughter,mother,or friend ???

Will you feel the same if they put up good numbers like Dillon and Pickens while undermining the coach and organization

Will you feel the same if these guys make the organization,coach, and fans look like fools the way that Ray lewis and Jamal Lewis did with their big trials ??

[Stripes]

I realy cant believe some of you guys STILL are on this guys bandwagon.

Why shouldn't we be? We haven't seen him play a single down. We don't know what to expect from him yet, so I'm not about to crap all over him.

Nicholson and Rucker have been arrested several times after getting drafted and BEFORE getting signed.

One arrest and one warrant between the two of them is several?

[Dadraftnick]

I realy cant believe some of you guys STILL are on this guys bandwagon.

Why shouldn't we be? We haven't seen him play a single down. We don't know what to expect from him yet, so I'm not about to crap all over him.

Nicholson and Rucker have been arrested several times after getting drafted and BEFORE getting signed.

One arrest and one warrant between the two of them is several?

I haven't been arrested in the the last 4 or 5 months have you ? 99% of us have not

The reason you shouldnt still be on his bandwagon is all of the info on the ESPN Outside the Lines about Rucker(which I am sure is just as bad on Nicholson)

Would you want your wife,mother,girlfriend,daughter treated like that????

One of those stories would have been an accuasation, this body of evidence shows a pattern of behavior that is hard to deny,enless you burry your head in the sand.

The point is the Bengals go above and beyond to overlook their past and give them a chance along with more money than most people will see in a lifetime and they cant even stay clean long enough to get their contract signed.

I don't know how it serves the Bengals to have this guy on the roster taking up roster space eating cap space and salary while he is suspended or in jail or both!!

Which also means they will have to cut someone that could play by the rules and help the team for his roster spot.

I dont want to see someone make the roster that cant stay out of jail,last year we almost cut K-Wash,this year we wasted 3 draft choices on WR's even though we lost one and replaced him in free agency because we know we cant count on Henry not being in the grey bar motel.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I realy cant believe some of you guys STILL are on this guys bandwagon.

Why shouldn't we be? We haven't seen him play a single down. We don't know what to expect from him yet, so I'm not about to crap all over him.

Nicholson and Rucker have been arrested several times after getting drafted and BEFORE getting signed.

One arrest and one warrant between the two of them is several?

One arrest? Nicholson has been arrested once. Rucker was arrested and plead guilty (to a lesser charge when his accuser lost her nerve in fear of him) in 2003, and was arrested again for the new charges last week.

So that's 3 arrests and one conviction. Also recall that Nicholson was suspended and rucker kicked out of school.

[schweinhart]

Well, until he graduates up to Frostee the Ripper I'm not convinced that anything he's done off the field should've have been his death knell on draft day since there were no charges pending at the time and his conviction was in the distant enough past. The Outside the Lines sure sounds more like Off the Mark unless there's more charges in the fold.

It's the lack of talent that remains the issue with Frostee the Mother Rucker IMO. He wasn't anywhere close to even being the best DE for USC for the past 2 years and showed little in the way of quickness to contain or pursue backside or pass rush against tackles. Nice frame and all plus the experience of playing for champs but beyond that he looked like a lesser version of Big Duane in collapsing inside vs. the run and some knack for anticipation.

Hopefully all the heat he's getting pumps him over the edge so the Bengals can get the most out of him but don't be too disappointed if he winds up replacing Askew as Mr. Inactive for the next 2 years while we get to wait and see if he transforms into a serial rapist.

I'm still looking more forward to what Eric Henderson does. Course he wasn't drafted and he doesn't have the same quality of character that Frostee seems to have, but it will be interesting to see how all this plays out on the field. Credit the Bengals for addressing DE either way.