R-U-D-I Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 No more big free agents to go after, and miss, so now what? Quietly sit by until the draft and see if there are any June 1 cuts worth anything?? Major disappointment that we haven't been able to make any significant upgrades so far and CD still is on the roster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Only thing to do now, is bring in Marion or Beckett back, and try to unload Dillon and Kit's salaries. --We' do get a 3rd round compensation pick for last seasons' loss of Takeo Spikes , so that'll help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKstripes Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Hold on, there's still time. What would the reactions be if in the next week or so we sign Brock Marion, Rogers Beckett and Reuben Brown? (I admit I've not done my homework here, so if any of them have signed elswhere in the last 3 or 4 days I apologise in advance). Bearing in mind Marvin was at the senior bowl and has been scouting heavily, I won't be suprised to see a grade A draft this year, cos it appears to be very deep, defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-U-D-I Posted March 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Why do we get a 3rd rounder for Takeo? Never heard that one before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 be either that Spikes thing is new to me. i don't understand why we cut artrell Hawkins and Jeff Burris. With out signing a corner. i've got a feeling the Bengals have something up there sleeve.With Ty Law out the door, I've got a feeling Marvin Might go after him hard. i say give it a week before Ty law is cut by his team. Since negotiations for a new contract restructure are apperently a complete stand still, with either side talking anymore, and Ty Law even callling Bill Bellicheck a Liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-U-D-I Posted March 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Law would be great, but he represents more money than Vincent or Sapp, so I wouldn't hold my breath on him... We're probably looking at a safety here this week and then some June 1 cast offs like Daryl Gardner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 yeah i thats what i assume will happen, but i can dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Why do we get a 3rd rounder for Takeo? Never heard that one before? I think depending on the type of tag on a free agent, if team A chooses not to match team B's offer, they receive compensation from team B the next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Why do we get a 3rd rounder for Takeo? Never heard that one before?I think depending on the type of tag on a free agent, if team A chooses not to match team B's offer, they receive compensation from team B the next year. Nah, it doesn't come from the Bills, he's talking about compensatory picks awarded by the league. Basically, they're "pity picks." If your team loses a big FA or a lot of little FAs, the league (may) award you one or more extra picks the next year as compensation. The are added in at the end of the round in which they're given. A very few are 3rd round picks; virtually all of them are 5-7 round junk.The formula on which these picks get awarded is another one of those things that, like the salary cap, you need a degree in stats and math to figure out. But it does take into account any FAs you lost and how they performed the following year, as well as FAs you gained. (At least, as far as I can tell it does, I may be wrong!) TKO did well, but we signed a bunch of players, too. I will be suprised if we really do get a 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Why do we get a 3rd rounder for Takeo? Never heard that one before?I think depending on the type of tag on a free agent, if team A chooses not to match team B's offer, they receive compensation from team B the next year. Nah, it doesn't come from the Bills, he's talking about compensatory picks awarded by the league. Basically, they're "pity picks." If your team loses a big FA or a lot of little FAs, the league (may) award you one or more extra picks the next year as compensation. The are added in at the end of the round in which they're given. A very few are 3rd round picks; virtually all of them are 5-7 round junk.The formula on which these picks get awarded is another one of those things that, like the salary cap, you need a degree in stats and math to figure out. But it does take into account any FAs you lost and how they performed the following year, as well as FAs you gained. (At least, as far as I can tell it does, I may be wrong!) TKO did well, but we signed a bunch of players, too. I will be suprised if we really do get a 3rd. My bad...I wasn't sure if it was from the team or not. I thought it was. Thanks for clearing it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle_Fever Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 I've had dreams of Law myself. CD for Law!! Thing is, Law is apparently unhappy with his contract. I dont know that we would want to take on that kind of headache. Not sure how reasonable he would be in a restructure. I heard on ESPN he wants $15M to sign. I would give up Vincent and Sapp for Law in a heartbeat. The big bucks are hard to swallow. I think you guys are right. I would expect a safety and right guard before the draft. Some more moves June 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 No more big free agents to go after, and miss, so now what? Quietly sit by until the draft and see if there are any June 1 cuts worth anything?? Major disappointment that we haven't been able to make any significant upgrades so far and CD still is on the roster...We made a good offer to Vincent. It was decent money for a reasonable amount of time. Buffalo gave him way too much money and for 6 years, and he jumped on it. I don't blame him. If a team is stupid enough to offer a deal like that you can't blame the guy for taking advantage of it. Just thank god we weren't stupid enough to try and top them.Sapp - Ludwig sites a source in Tampa that says Sapp was never going to sign with Cincy in the first place. According to him " Sapp was not going to go to a cold weather team that was not a winner. Sapp doesn't want to play in the cold." The source went on to say we were lucky that he didn't sign because he kissed up to national media and when it came to the local press he just sat in the locker room and spit tobacco all over. It's a good column in todays Dayton Daily. When we offered Sapp 4 for 4, it was twice what everybody expected him to get. Along comes the genius Al Davis and offers him doble the money for 7 years .............. again see above comments on offering too much money for too long of a contract. Bruce Smith ( tho I didn't like him ) was a specimen and look at the way he deteriorated over the time he was with the 'skins. What do you think Sapp is going to look like ( and play like ) in 2 or 3 years ???? Sapps agent used our offer to bait the Raiders, but even he was probably surprised at their reaction. I agree with whoever said that the Raiders and Sapp deserve each other. Again thank god we didn't try to up the offer. I look at both of the above more as stupidity on the part of the teams that signed these guys than I do as any ineptness or lack of acumen on the part of the Bengals. The fact that we didn't move Dillon wasn't a factor as far as Sapp, because we were only a lever anyway. Oakland wasn't offering a 3rd rounder either according to an article on ( I think ) ESPN. For some reason I'm having a hard time believing Dillon when he says the deal is there for the Bengals to take. Right now I'd have a hard time taking his word for anything.What do we do now ??????? Well like chris said, Marion and Beckett are both still available at what are becoming very reasonable terms. Taylor still hasn't signed with anyone, and the Bengals offer has to be looking better all the time. Brown is still out there, and while Gardener is iffy, he may rate an offer if Lewis feels he can trust him and figures he deserves a 2nd chance. Got to admit that I don't know too much about him. Lots to do in the draft, and then there are goiing to be the guys that get cut in order to make room for all the sapps that got signed around the league. I'm going to hang around and see how things turn out.Can't afford Law. He was " insulted " by a pretty good offer from the Patriots, so he'd most likely demand an apology for anything we'd suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverbengal Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 (QUOTE) while Gardener is iffy, he may rate an offer if Lewis feels he can trust him and figures he deserves a 2nd chance. Got to admit that I don't know too much about him. (QUOTE)Here's what the Denver Post said about him on Mar. 12."Gardner spent one season in Washington before signing a seven-year, $39 million deal with Denver, and his former Redskins defensive coordinator, Marvin Lewis, now is the Bengals head coach.Gardener's career in Denver was nothing short of a disaster. He suffered a broken hand in a pre-training camp fight in the parking lot of an Aurora pancake house, fought with Broncos coaches, branded Shanahan "the little man up there" in a radio interview and played in only five games." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Still don't want Gardner.. Ty Law for Dillon is acceptable if N.E. tosses in a draft pick because of the differences in their salaries. Has to at least be a 4th on up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-U-D-I Posted March 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 I'm not saying that it's a bad thing necessarily that we swung and missed at Vincent and Sapp, just frustrating. In Marvin We Trust. He will make the best possible out of this and we will be better in the long run. It's just 13 years of watching the big one get away or never even bite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-U-D-I Posted March 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Interesting quote from Peter King in his Monday Morning QB Top 10 things I think."8. I think the musical chairs are being filled, Bobby Taylor, and it's time for you to choose Cincinnati." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 (QUOTE) while Gardener is iffy, he may rate an offer if Lewis feels he can trust him and figures he deserves a 2nd chance. Got to admit that I don't know too much about him. (QUOTE)Here's what the Denver Post said about him on Mar. 12."Gardner spent one season in Washington before signing a seven-year, $39 million deal with Denver, and his former Redskins defensive coordinator, Marvin Lewis, now is the Bengals head coach.Gardener's career in Denver was nothing short of a disaster. He suffered a broken hand in a pre-training camp fight in the parking lot of an Aurora pancake house, fought with Broncos coaches, branded Shanahan "the little man up there" in a radio interview and played in only five games." Well that clears up the iffy part. Thanks for the clarification ..... it does put a little different spin on the situation doesn't it ??This is one of the reason why I like the fact that so many posters here are spread out so far geographically. It gives you a lot better insight when you get the local perspective. As to Gardner, in the words of someone who knows about these things " Pass ".R-U-D-I ................ I hear you. It is frustrating, and I know it sounds lame, but be patient. It didn't go to hell in 1 season and it won't get fixed in 1 season either. It is getting better though. Before last year, Vincent wouldn't have even stopped in to see us on his way to Buffalo. If you want to know exactly how bad that is, then go to Buffalo some time. We got hosed by Sapp and his agent. Big deal. The Jets got hosed by Winfield and his agent ........ it happens. We take it worse here because players made such a routine of it for the last 10 years or so, but like I said this time it was strictly business and our decisions in the matter were better than the teams that did sign the guys. When this is looked back at in a couple of years, we'll be looking a lot smarter and it'll be our turn to laugh. If we could pull it of, Ty Law for Dillon would be very acceptable. Law still has 2 years left on his contract as well doesn't he ????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 If we could pull it of, Ty Law for Dillon would be very acceptable. Law still has 2 years left on his contract as well doesn't he ????????? Yeah...but I believe the salaries are $7 million & and $10 million.Personally, I don't expect any signings of note. We might sign one more b-flight guy (probably a guard) and maybe resign a couple of our own guys, but I would say we're pretty much done in FA. (I would say that, that is, but it implies that we ever got started in FA which, in hindsight, we didn't... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 I'm not saying that it's a bad thing necessarily that we swung and missed at Vincent and Sapp, just frustrating. In Marvin We Trust. He will make the best possible out of this and we will be better in the long run. It's just 13 years of watching the big one get away or never even bite! I agree, I'm frustrated at the front office now than ever. I think the lack of signing a big free agent ISN'T money, rather the inability to actively pick up players sign and seal them. The problem with Sapp? We sat and sat and sat and allowed Oakland to get in the drawing and they won because of the dough. Welcome inactivity and unexplored acceptability partial to the inability for Brown to open his DAMNED checkbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 I'm not saying that it's a bad thing necessarily that we swung and missed at Vincent and Sapp, just frustrating. In Marvin We Trust. He will make the best possible out of this and we will be better in the long run. It's just 13 years of watching the big one get away or never even bite!I agree, I'm frustrated at the front office now than ever. I think the lack of signing a big free agent ISN'T money, rather the inability to actively pick up players sign and seal them. The problem with Sapp? We sat and sat and sat and allowed Oakland to get in the drawing and they won because of the dough. Welcome inactivity and unexplored acceptability partial to the inability for Brown to open his DAMNED checkbook. I share your frustration as I do R-U-D-I's. I don't know that I agree about Sapp though. If the Tampa source that was mentioned by Ludwig is to be believed, we were never in the running in the first place. The Bengals had their offer in place and Sapps agent said they were 1 phone call away from a deal. Little did we know that he meant a phone call from Oakland ( or where ever they are nowadays ). Ludwigs un named source rings a lot truer to me than Rosenhsause saying ... No ... really ... we really did want to play for the Bengals. It would have been an honor. yeah yeah .......... tone it down a little. You pulled a fast one and got away with it. Pat yourself on the back and take your check and nevermind the asskissing.PS. Like Kings comment about Taylor ......... for once I have to agree with him Dam if that don't feel strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpou Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 We did all we could when everyone was offer 2 mil/year we offered 4mill. I ead the same thing that Sapp didn't want to play for a cold weather team. I sure as hell didn't want to give Sapp a 7 year deal he's 31 already I'd say he has 2 to 3 good years left at DT and we were offering 4 years. Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. He'll be 35 or 36 y/o half way thru his contract. Right now I think we need to get B.Taylor in. He is the only one left. It'll be interesting to see how much he gets from us. B.Taylor has the leverage now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 I don't know that I agree about Sapp though. If the Tampa source that was mentioned by Ludwig is to be believed, we were never in the running in the first place. The Bengals had their offer in place and Sapps agent said they were 1 phone call away from a deal. Little did we know that he meant a phone call from Oakland ( or where ever they are nowadays ). I'm quite sure Sapp would have signed had we remained the best offer on the table by a significant margin, and by all accounts we were offering twice what anyone else was willing to pay. That said, it was also clear from the start that Sapp was going to make this a very public event, complete with his own web site hawking himself to a bunch of teams, all in an attempt to create a market for himself. And it (just barely) worked. The guy who got played here isn't Mike Brown, it's Al Davis. Mikey just the one that got thrown back; Davis is the one in the picture hanging on the hook-scale on the dock next a big fat grinning Sapp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Davis is the one in the picture hanging on the hook-scale on the dock next a big fat grinning Sapp. That's just too funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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