Draft Purpose

[Who Dey Time]

For years, we have had to use the draft to find seven starters to improve the mess. Now, we can draft for depth and the future (2-3 years). I think we have accomplished this with this draft. No, there was not a player that would make you say wow, although I love Joseph, but the players that were picked can help down the line after much time developing in Lewis' system.

For me, its comical to see all the negative posts about this player and that player. We didn't draft an impact player because we already have our impact players.

WHO-DEY!

[TJJackson]

Really?

Check our defensive stats last year, and tell me again that we don't need any starters there

[duus]

Couldn't agree more! I have sat here in Pittsburgh and watched the Steelers draft for depth year after year. This year ... finally ... I see our Bengals able to do the same. The future is very bright. As Chad said ... times are a-changin'!

[Who Dey Time]

Really?

Check our defensive stats last year, and tell me again that we don't need any starters there

I think Adams and Jackson will help on that end. This also will allow Pollack and Thurman to make more plays.

Who were they going to take at #24 that would start opening day?

WHO-DEY

[membengal]

Apparently what the bengals got done in free agency doesn't register in TJ's world...

[duus]

I think what they did over the weekend was a great combination of both adding depth for the future as well as addressing some needs on defense. Did they fill every hole and every concern? No. That's impossible. But they did draft 4 out of the first 5 on defense (the biggest hole), adding another guy for depth on the o-line, and are building for the next 2-3 years as a goal. I truly like what I see. I have seen it work for others, and I expect it will work here as well. Cool.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Really?

Check our defensive stats last year, and tell me again that we don't need any starters there

I think Adams and Jackson will help on that end. This also will allow Pollack and Thurman to make more plays.

Who were they going to take at #24 that would start opening day?

WHO-DEY

Admittedly, this draft shaped up very poorly for us in round 1. I didn't see Allen going as high as he did, and I was really hoping we'd get him. Good player, could help at CB and S. Oh well. Hopefully if Joseph learns how to actually play CB - as opposed to letting his afterburners help him make up for mistakes - he could see real PT this year sometime.

I think it was more round 2 that pissed people off, and then the WR run.

[BTG]

Apparently what the bengals got done in free agency doesn't register in TJ's world...

Hey man, it's not like either of those players did anything last year to warrant any real excitement. Sam Adams has been a one/two down player for the last several years and he didn't even play that much last year with Buffalo. Also, Dexter Jackson didn't do anything special last season for the Bucs.

Sure, they're good players, but neither one of them is guaranteed to have a real impact on the defense.

[membengal]

Apparently what the bengals got done in free agency doesn't register in TJ's world...

Hey man, it's not like either of those players did anything last year to warrant any real excitement. Sam Adams has been a one/two down player for the last several years and he didn't even play that much last year with Buffalo. Also, Dexter Jackson didn't do anything special last season for the Bucs.

Sure, they're good players, but neither one of them is guaranteed to have a real impact on the defense.

I don't think I am too far out on a limb to note that Dexter Jackson is a massive upgrade at S over Ohalete, and would have started over any rookie S drafted in the 1st round.

Sam Adams is absoluetly what the middle of the line ordered, and will, in my opinion, be huge for this team. I cannot imagine the pick that would have started ahead of him (including Ngata). So...yes, I refuse to ignore what they got done in free agency. These picks over the weekend were not made in a vacuum.

[TJJackson]

Apparently what the bengals got done in free agency doesn't register in TJ's world...

To extend your logic, or what passes for it, it would appear that you think that these two players alone make us a top 10 defense. I happen to disagree.

[duus]

Several times a year, I get to travel back to the Cincinnati area to enjoy some 'fresh air' and get out of this polluted hole in the ground called Pittsburgh. I absolutely love the trip, and look forward to it beyond belief. But there is one thing that always rubs me the wrong way ... especially when I visit during football season. There are a few, uh, older generation "Bengal fans". Oh, they watch the games. And they are happy to see the win. But during the ENTIRE game, during the week, etc., it's as if the Bengals can do no right. All I hear is that "they'll find a way to lose it". "No way they can win that one." "They never should have hired that player." "I could do better than so and so." On and on. I absolutely CANNOT watch a game around these guys. I would never ask for blindly following a team ... that's stupid, and not a fan at all. But if you are going to be a fan, I think you will always at least find some optimism ... some pride ... something to be hopeful of ... something that you at least anticipate. If not, then I say to those folks that maybe they should be watching sitcoms or soap opras or something.

I just think with what Marvin and Co. have accomplished in 3 short years ... given what the last decade or so had ... we need to at least sprinkle the criticism with a dash of trust. Nothing more than that.

Go Bengals!

[membengal]

Let's see TJ, four of the Bengals' first five picks were spent on D, they paid attention to it, and you don't like what we did, we get it. We all get it.

I wasn't extending my "logic" anywhere, just noting that you act like they made no other moves this spring to address needs on the team prior to last weekend...

[BTG]

I don't think I am too far out on a limb to note that Dexter Jackson is a massive upgrade at S over Ohalete, and would have started over any rookie S drafted in the 1st round.

Sam Adams is absoluetly what the middle of the line ordered, and will, in my opinion, be huge for this team. I cannot imagine the pick that would have started ahead of him (including Ngata). So...yes, I refuse to ignore what they got done in free agency. These picks over the weekend were not made in a vacuum.

Whoah, just because he's a massive upgrade over Oh-how-I-hate-thee doesn't mean he's good. That's a bit like comparing dying in your sleep to being brutally murdered in a dark alley. Sure, one's better than the other, but it's still not what you're hoping for.

Hell, Kim Herring is better than Ohalate and I didn't see anyone clamoring for him to stay. Jackson is a solid player, but that's it. He's not going to change the way the defense plays or take over games the way someone like Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu will. He's not an "impact" player, is what I'm saying. He's the guy behind the guy behind the guy.

Plus he's in his thirties which is normally when players start to decline. Granted, we have Madieu coming back healthy, but it'd be nice to have another young talent who could rotate into the lineup and be groomed for the future.

I agree that Sam can come in and occupy blockers, but how much is he going to play? How in shape is he going to be? Pardon me for being skeptical, but I've been a Bengals die hard since Kenny Anderson was throwing passes to Chris Collinsworth. I'm used to disappointment and I have learned to not get my hopes up with free agent signings because they might not do what people hope they will. (Webster/Herring/Robinson/Clemons/Powell)

[derekshank]

I've asked the question several times now, and still no answer. Who should we have drafted in round 1 that would have been a starter over someone currently on the defense? Any 1st round worthy DT's out there? How about 1st round safeties to try to take Dexter's job?

CB is really the only position that would have a chance to supplant one of the current starters on the defense (Tory slowing down with age). The only other pick out there that would have started right away for us was Mercedes Lewis... and please don't tell me that is the pick we should have taken. For all the bitching about our defense, don't tell me we needed a TE in the first round.

We drafted for depth more so than need... and if you think about it, depth was the real problem on our defense last year. So now we're using the draft to address that issue.

[BTG]

Are you asking anyone in particular, derek?

[lando griffin]

I don't think I am too far out on a limb to note that Dexter Jackson is a massive upgrade at S over Ohalete, and would have started over any rookie S drafted in the 1st round.

Sam Adams is absoluetly what the middle of the line ordered, and will, in my opinion, be huge for this team. I cannot imagine the pick that would have started ahead of him (including Ngata). So...yes, I refuse to ignore what they got done in free agency. These picks over the weekend were not made in a vacuum.

Whoah, just because he's a massive upgrade over Oh-how-I-hate-thee doesn't mean he's good. That's a bit like comparing dying in your sleep to being brutally murdered in a dark alley. Sure, one's better than the other, but it's still not what you're hoping for.

Hell, Kim Herring is better than Ohalate and I didn't see anyone clamoring for him to stay. Jackson is a solid player, but that's it. He's not going to change the way the defense plays or take over games the way someone like Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu will. He's not an "impact" player, is what I'm saying. He's the guy behind the guy behind the guy.

Plus he's in his thirties which is normally when players start to decline. Granted, we have Madieu coming back healthy, but it'd be nice to have another young talent who could rotate into the lineup and be groomed for the future.

I agree that Sam can come in and occupy blockers, but how much is he going to play? How in shape is he going to be? Pardon me for being skeptical, but I've been a Bengals die hard since Kenny Anderson was throwing passes to Chris Collinsworth. I'm used to disappointment and I have learned to not get my hopes up with free agent signings because they might not do what people hope they will. (Webster/Herring/Robinson/Clemons/Powell)

Yo man, no team has impact players at every position. Just because an impact player at safety and DT would be nice doesn't mean you can just go out and get one in any old offseason. If it was so easy to obtain these players then every team would go to the playoffs every year and no fan would have anything to bitch about. If you did have an impact player at every position, which seems to be your and TJ's goal, then you would not be able to pay them all since there's a thing called a salary cap. Just because we only got a decent upgrade doesn't mean something is going wrong. The bottom line is that the team has gotten better overall. I'm tired of hearing you two ignorant f**ks and your third grade logic.

[Who Dey Time]

I've asked the question several times now, and still no answer. Who should we have drafted in round 1 that would have been a starter over someone currently on the defense? Any 1st round worthy DT's out there? How about 1st round safeties to try to take Dexter's job?

CB is really the only position that would have a chance to supplant one of the current starters on the defense (Tory slowing down with age). The only other pick out there that would have started right away for us was Mercedes Lewis... and please don't tell me that is the pick we should have taken. For all the bitching about our defense, don't tell me we needed a TE in the first round.

We drafted for depth more so than need... and if you think about it, depth was the real problem on our defense last year. So now we're using the draft to address that issue.

I agree w/ Derek here. Injuries were a big part of the defense's struggles. This indicates that our backups were worthless (Ohalete, to some degree Kaesviharn). If Madieu and BRob comeback healthy, plus Adams and Jackson - the D is worlds better.

This draft was used to compliment the players that we already have.

[derekshank]

Are you asking anyone in particular, derek?

No, I just haven't heard any suggestions. I hear a lot of complaining about not drafting for need on defense... but there was no one out there to fill the need. We would have had to stretch big time for a DT or a Safety.

If you're pissed that we didn't address either in the 2nd round, I can understand it a bit better... but I didn't want anything to do with Wroten... the highest rated DT on the board... and the next SS to get drafted was the very last pick of the 3rd round... so it would have been a reach to say the least.

I guess my point is, it is easy to complain about not getting guys that address our biggest weakness on defense... but when there is no one there, there is no one there. I don't see anyone available in either of our 1st or 2nd round picks that would challenge to make an immediate impact at either Safety or DT.

You can argue that Bullocks should have been our first round choice instead of Joseph... but then I would say, "Really? Bullocks?" while raising my eyebrow at you with legitimate concern for your mental well-being.

[BTG]

Yo man, no team has impact players at every position. Just because an impact player at safety and DT would be nice doesn't mean you can just go out and get one in any old offseason. If it was so easy to obtain these players then every team would go to the playoffs every year and no fan would have anything to bitch about. If you did have an impact player at every position, which seems to be your and TJ's goal, then you would not be able to pay them all since there's a thing called a salary cap. Just because we only got a decent upgrade doesn't mean something is going wrong. The bottom line is that the team has gotten better overall. I'm tired of hearing you two ignorant f**ks and your third grade logic.

Whoa there, tiger. Calm down a bit. I didn't say we should have an impact player at every position and I didn't say we should have rushed out and spent a bunch of money to bring in free agents. I was actually one of the people against signing a big name DT like Pickett or an overpriced OLB like Arrington. I'm just saying that a player like Ko Simpson (who I absolutely love) will end up being a stand out and could have teamed up with Madieu to become one of the best safety duos in the NFL.

Just because I don't necessarily like the picks they made in the second and third rounds doesn't mean I'm bitching about the world coming to and end or being overly negative about the team's chances. I'm simply trying to keep people seeing both sides of the issue. Yes, we signed two free agents in need spots. Are they going to help? Of course. How much of an impact they will have remains to be seen, though. It's like I said, I think Adams and Jackson can both be solid players on our defense and both of them will contribute. They're both upgrades compared to the players who were in their spots last year. However, none of that makes them the long term solutions to the problems of the defense.

And for future reference, if you're going to resort to childish name-calling in a desperate attempt to invalidate what I'm saying, please come a bit stronger with it next time. Your last effort was pathetic. I mean, I kept waiting for you to call me a Stupid Poopy Head.

No, I just haven't heard any suggestions. I hear a lot of complaining about not drafting for need on defense... but there was no one out there to fill the need. We would have had to stretch big time for a DT or a Safety.

Oh absolutely. I like Joseph really well and I think he'll be a Dunta Robinson-esque corner, I was just hoping we would have picked a player who could have more of an impact on the future of the defense in the second and third rounds. Perhaps Frostee will turn into the next big thing in Cincinnati and open his own line of ice cream shops….I don't know. The point is, we already have two project defensive ends and I don't see how a third one helps us. Furthermore, I would have liked to have seen a Ko Simpson or a Darnell Bing in the third round. That's just my opinion after watching all three of those players last season. I think both of them are excellent.

[TJJackson]

To clarify, my initial answer in this thread to the original post was to this one line only

We didn't draft an impact player because we already have our impact players.

Others are dragging the issue away from this topic, and that's fine and all, but it really should be in another thread.

That said, no, our defense sucks, so no, we don't have all our impact players.

You should always draft as many impact players as you can, because you never know who will go down to injury or leave for some other reason. The more impact players you field on Sunday, the better chance you have of success that day.

One respondent to this thread said you shouldn't draft impact players because you cannot afford them all. This is the height of ignorance: you'll never get an impact player more cheaply than while they are in their first 4 years of play. They play for minimum salaries and (after round2) generally for minimal signing bonuses. They need 4 (sometimes 3, depends) years in the league before they can really and truly earn the big paycheck. Having a lot of young impact players is a GREAT problem to have, you get great production for those 3-4 years and then you can pick and choose the ones you want to keep and trade (more draft picks, anyone?) or release the others.

Having a lot of impact players makes you a playoff team.

You never want to draft crappy, non-impact players, because then you'll have a crappy football team. Pretty simple concept.

[Who Dey Time]

To clarify, my initial answer in this thread to the original post was to this one line only

We didn't draft an impact player because we already have our impact players.

Others are dragging the issue away from this topic, and that's fine and all, but it really should be in another thread.

That said, no, our defense sucks, so no, we don't have all our impact players.

I understand your point, TJ, but my original question still stands - What impact player are you going to draft at #24 and beyond? The players who can make an impact in 2006 were signed in FA.

[TJJackson]

I didn't answer that part of your statement

However, the corner they took will have an impact this year, as a dime or nickel guy. Also on special teams. I graded that pick a C

If you review the pre-pick 1 thread, you'll note I clearly state, right around pick 20 or so, that we'll need to draft ahead of San Fran to get Manny Lawson. It was only a 3 pick rise at the bottom of r1 and would not have cost us much.

In return, we'd have gotten our impact player

There were other players who could have had an impact this year at TE, S, and LB. Corner too.

The other impactful option would have been to trade down. Don't tell me they didn't hear from Pittsburgh, who traded the world to take a WR right behind the Bengals pick. Likely, there were other suitors as well.