The Defense

[derekshank]

We asked Marvin to come here and build a defense... and it finally looks to be coming together. We're still very VERY young... but the pieces seem to be in place.

DT: The smaller more athletic DT philosophy just wasn't working. Sam Adams coming in as a big clog in the middle to take up blockers should help out enormously. He might need another big body next to him to be productive, so with S. Smith coming on at the end of last year... and the newly drafted 320 lb Peko the DT position no longer looks like an area of weakness. The 3 of these guys subbing in and out makes this line look a lot bigger, and a lot better for our DE's. (Oh yeah, and we still have B-Rob and Thornton too... remember, last year's starters? See ya later Askew)

DE: Justin Smith and Robert Geathers are solid... but I would shy away from any adjectives more praisworthy than that. We need more production out of them. Our new DT's should remove any excuses by taking up more blockers... so if we don't get a more consistent pass-rush it's all on them. We also have Fanene and a million tweeners like Pollack, Jeanty, and now Rucker. Nothing to get too giddy about... but the pass rush should be improved (here's to hoping).

LB: We are now getting the kind of depth at LB that you would need to run the 3-4... and that's a nice luxury when you're running a 4-3 base. Our LB's are getting more and more versatile, so we should be able to switch it up more often... and that's never a bad thing. Obviously we have our starters with Simmons, Odell, and Pollack which is solid to say the least. We also have a great backup in Landon Johnson who can play all 3 positions, a tweener in Rashad Jeanty, a possible tweener in Frostee Rucker and a big-time potential talent in Nicholson. I really like our LB depth right now. (we will probably see a departure or two of these guys: Hannibal Navies, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins).

S: Madieu's back - enough said. Getting Dexter Jackson in there will be like night and day compared to Ohalete... and the under-rated KK backs them both up. I'm a little concerned about depth... with a bunch of the young unproven guys, but baring season ending injuries like last season it shouldn't be a weakness anymore.

CB: Deltha is one of the league's best. Tory lost a step, but is still only a year removed from the Pro-Bowl... he just relies on good saftey play (which he should have this year). Joseph should have Tory's job by mid-season... and Tory will be one of the best nickle CB's in the league. Ratliff is the long-term answer at nickle, but he will play dime until Tory's contract runs out. Our secondary should again be one of the best in the league, and I predict we will lead the league in INT's again.

There are still some questions about whether or not we're in the middle of a change to the 3-4... but Marvin has been consitently plugging new players into this defense every year... and I predict we break out this year. Even with the 4-3, we have talent at every position. Now we just need the production that should come along with it.

We might not be the Chicago Bears type defense that leads the league in most categories... but we will still get our turnovers, and if our improved D-Line can get a pass rush, the point total should come down too. I'm excited about the defense Marvin is building here. In a year or two when we are not so green, we may truly be dominant.

[Kazkal]

Good post though to keep Ssmith we'd have too cut brob or JT (4 dt's 4 DE's)

I don't think askew is quite gone if he busts his ass preseason I could easilly see him unseating jt or brob

Which I don't see happening and I think Brob is bigger cap hit so cya JT

[Stripes]

A lot is hinging on the performance of Sam Adams... He should be effective in at least drawing double teams to free up the DEs, but might not be effective in the running game (which is why he's here). I think we will need a big and athletic DT next to him to allow him to play to his fullest ability. I am not confident that either Thornton or Robinson is capable of filling that role. Shaun Smith is a much better candidate, but he is likely to sub occassionaly in Sam's place rather than play next to him.

With Pollack's imminent explosion (I think he'll soon be one of our best defensive players), and Adams in the middle, I think the pass rush will be much improved. This should do wonders for the pass defense, which I think is capable of being one of the league's best barring injuries. Madieu and Dexter will be monstrous improvements over Kaesviharn and Ohalete, and that should only help Tory and Deltha. I don't think Joseph will be in the starting lineup by midseason, but the sooner he's ready, the better.

I'm still worried about the run defense, but with a better overall DT rotation this season, it should at least improve. I love the Peko pick, and think that he could be a solid contributor in that rotation before the season is all said and done. I think the DTs on the roster this year will be Adams, Smith, Thornton, and Peko. Robinson has a shot if they want to stick him at DE sometimes during our rare 3-4 looks.

Sam's presense might also do wonders to free up Thurman's game... He already lead the team in tackles by a large margin with blockers in his face constantly. Having that beefy guy in front of him may be the key that will help get him his first trip to Honolulu.

[walshfan]

I think the 4 tackles will be Adams, Peko, S.Smith and BRob...

[DontPushMe]

CB: Deltha is one of the league's best. Tory lost a step, but is still only a year removed from the Pro-Bowl... he just relies on good saftey play (which he should have this year). Joseph should have Tory's job by mid-season... and Tory will be one of the best nickle CB's in the league. Ratliff is the long-term answer at nickle, but he will play dime until Tory's contract runs out. Our secondary should again be one of the best in the league, and I predict we will lead the league in INT's again.

As much as I love Joseph (he was the player I wanted after Manny Lawson went off the board) you really cant expect him to start this season. I think he will be nickle or dime, but I think to start this season off Tory James will be the #2 with Joseph taking over somewhere around week 8 at the earliest.

[derekshank]

Hey DPM... week 8 would be around mid-season... my prediction, so I guess we are in agreement. The reason I think Joseph will take Tory's job is because he has what Tory lacks now in his 30's... and that is raw athleticism. If Joseph can learn his fundamentals, he will be much more adequate in handling big play recievers.

In response to TDB... our run defense is actually not as bad as you think. We were flat awful against Pittsburgh in week 7. There is not denying that... and the week before we didn't play that great against Jacksonville. But don't count the Larry Johnson game. Not only did Larry Johnson do that to everyone in the league... we didn't have our starters in there, so it was a throwaway game.

Our run defense played very well from week 8 on... especially when Shaun Smith was playing (which is why I expect him to make the team). The passing game was where we struggled the 2nd half of the season... and that was because the QB was standing back there patting the ball, so the pass rush is the biggest need right now.

I agree that JT might get cut too, because B Rob is a natural 3-4 DE anyway... so he's a bit more versatile.

I also believe Peko will make an impact this year. He won't be a starter, but he will get in that rotation... and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if by the end of the year the rotation was Adams, S. Smith and Peko. They are all big men, so having 3 of them should keep them fresh, and they all know how to take on multiple blockers, which is exactly what we need.

[DontPushMe]

My bad i missed that little comment in there.

[Kazkal]

last year we have 5des 4 Dt's this year I think will do 4 de's 5 dts I think we lose 1 DT atm looks to be askew inless he steps up his game in the off season but if we let JT go we save 2 million which will help us with Levi and eric

[Spain]

S. Smith,S Adams,Peko, Thorton. DT

DE Smith, water boy,frosty, geathers,fanene

2 cents

[Walrus]

So is anybody else more than a little concerned about our depth at Safety?? I just don't understand why we only have 2 decent starters there. I like KK and the other backups, but if Madieu or DJax goes down, I don't feel good about having them fill in for weeks at a time. What is Marving thinking here??

[derekshank]

So is anybody else more than a little concerned about our depth at Safety?? I just don't understand why we only have 2 decent starters there. I like KK and the other backups, but if Madieu or DJax goes down, I don't feel good about having them fill in for weeks at a time. What is Marving thinking here?

I'm with you there. It is the one area that we still lack depth. If you think about it... this is exactly the same position we were in last season at this time... except with Herring instead of Jackson.

Let's just hope Jackson doesn't break his leg in a pre-season game, and that Madieu's shoulder stays in tact. If one of them goes down I'm comfortable with KK. If they both go down, it's like a bad episode of the Twilight Zone.

I'm happy Ratliff got some experience back there at FS... but he's not adequate to start there if we have injury problems again. I still see Safety depth as our biggest weakness... similar to last year. Let's just hope the injury bug leaves our safeties alone this year.

[TJJackson]

Yep, same as last year, need a safety yet fail to draft one despite multiple opportunities to get a good one

[derekshank]

Yep, same as last year, need a safety yet fail to draft one despite multiple opportunities to get a good one

Yes TJ. We all know they didn't draft Ko Simpson or Darnell Bing when they could have. Yes we agree that it would certainly make our depth chart look better, and we're all a little disappointed they didn't draft Madieu's future counterpart for the 2nd year in a row.

I'm still more happy that they stuck to their board rather than reaching for a need. You build dynasties by sticking to the board you've developed for the last 4 months... not by scrambling around looking at your depth chart right before your next pick. We'll have to agree to disagree on drafting philosophy... but Super Bowl teams take the best available player... not stop-gap solutions to temporary roster holes.

[Stripes]

In response to TDB... our run defense is actually not as bad as you think. We were flat awful against Pittsburgh in week 7. There is not denying that... and the week before we didn't play that great against Jacksonville. But don't count the Larry Johnson game. Not only did Larry Johnson do that to everyone in the league... we didn't have our starters in there, so it was a throwaway game.

Our run defense played very well from week 8 on... especially when Shaun Smith was playing (which is why I expect him to make the team). The passing game was where we struggled the 2nd half of the season... and that was because the QB was standing back there patting the ball, so the pass rush is the biggest need right now.

There's no question that the run defense improved later in the year when Smith was able to get more playing time. Still, one could question the caliber of the competition, and whether or not that late season success will translate to consistent success this season. The best running teams (aside from the Chiefs) we faced after the bye were arguably Indianapolis and Pittsburgh. We had marginal success in bottling up Edgerrin James, but that game was played in the air. Against the Steelers, we probably had our best game of the season in regards to run defense, but I still saw problems with the interior defensive line getting pushed around.

I'm not sure that Adams will be able to provide a huge improvement in stopping the running game over the DTs we were fielding last season. As mentioned before, his presence will help Odell and the linebackers to some degree, and that will translate to some improvment. Still, without a huge change on that line, I don't see us having better than an average run defense. Average would certainly be better than what we've seen in recent years, but it wouldn't bode well for a playoff contender (especially against this schedule).

If Adams and Smith do end up rotating with each other, that should help to ease the worries regarding each of their staminas. Still, that'd mean that either Robinson or Thornton will still be on the field for a large portion of each game, and I don't like that thought much.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

As far as run defense goes, I'm starting to agree that Smith + Adams could help plug the "up the middle" problem substantially. Will that be enough to keep the OLinemen away from the LBs? From last year, it seems to me that as the year went on, the worst damage was on toss plays and similar. I always felt like the LBs didn't do a good enough job of stringing the play out horizontally and using the sidelines as their friends. Simmons in particular always seemed to fly right into a blocker, effectively allowing the blocker to seal the end, when he could have run the play to the sidelines if he had avoided running into the line.

The question is: 1) Am I just nuts? 2)If not, was this the fault of Thornton and Robinson for letting the OL get upfield, or 3) is this the fault of Simmons (and the other LBs to a degree) for being a bit overaggressive?

[TJJackson]

I'm still more happy that they stuck to their board rather than reaching for a need. You build dynasties by sticking to the board you've developed for the last 4 months... not by scrambling around looking at your depth chart right before your next pick. We'll have to agree to disagree on drafting philosophy... but Super Bowl teams take the best available player... not stop-gap solutions to temporary roster holes.

True to a limited extent. Very limited.

If the best player available (BPA) at every pick was a WR, do you think they would have taken 8 wide receivers? No, you'd be hard pressed to claim that need never factors into it, even on a great team.

Almost every pick made was nominally addressing a need of some kind. Not well in some cases, ie we needed a great DE but got a Frostee instead, but it was certainly a position of need.

The 3 wide receivers? You may be able to make a minimal\weak BPA argument about the QB\WR being BPA at that point, but not the other two. They also did not meet real needs, unless it is already understood that we are losing two more WRs (Squirrel? Henry?) off the roster, as well as not keepign McNeal, who will be slotted as a WR on the roster

Even the very best teams have needs, particularly in the age of the salary cap when you have needs not only for great players but for cheap (cap-friendly) players as well

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm still more happy that they stuck to their board rather than reaching for a need. You build dynasties by sticking to the board you've developed for the last 4 months... not by scrambling around looking at your depth chart right before your next pick. We'll have to agree to disagree on drafting philosophy... but Super Bowl teams take the best available player... not stop-gap solutions to temporary roster holes.

True to a limited extent. Very limited.

If the best player available (BPA) at every pick was a WR, do you think they would have taken 8 wide receivers? No, you'd be hard pressed to claim that need never factors into it, even on a great team.

Almost every pick made was nominally addressing a need of some kind. Not well in some cases, ie we needed a great DE but got a Frostee instead, but it was certainly a position of need.

The 3 wide receivers? You may be able to make a minimal\weak BPA argument about the QB\WR being BPA at that point, but not the other two. They also did not meet real needs, unless it is already understood that we are losing two more WRs (Squirrel? Henry?) off the roster, as well as not keepign McNeal, who will be slotted as a WR on the roster

Even the very best teams have needs, particularly in the age of the salary cap when you have needs not only for great players but for cheap (cap-friendly) players as well

Exactly. Sure you don't reach an entire round, but if the BPA in the 3rd round is a QB, and the second best is a DT, the Bengals would be idiots for taking the QB.

For a prime example of what happens when you follow BPA too far, see Matt Millen.