ntpou Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Since we are not going to sign a good CB in FA. The one positive is that Marvin isn't going to strap us for the future years dollar wise. Besides 6 years 20 million for a 33y/o. I could tell you right now Vincent will not be as good 3 years from now let alone at age 39. How many good CB do you know at the age of 35. NONE.I think we are 85% certain we'll take a CB in the draft Gamble or Hall.Maybe W.Poole. This is what I think we'll do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 I agree. I'll lay money right now that no matter how the draft goes down, come pick 17 the BPA is going to be a CB... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 I agree. I'll lay money right now that no matter how the draft goes down, come pick 17 the BPA is going to be a CB... I'll take that "bet"! It'll be a defensive lineman, tackle or an end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Since we are not going to sign a good CB in FA. The one positive is that Marvin isn't going to strap us for the future years dollar wise. Besides 6 years 20 million for a 33y/o. I could tell you right now Vincent will not be as good 3 years from now let alone at age 39. How many good CB do you know at the age of 35. NONE.I think we are 85% certain we'll take a CB in the draft Gamble or Hall.Maybe W.Poole. This is what I think we'll do. I think when you offer someone $2.5 mil a year, you're not strapping anyone down. That's just a low ball offer for most mid- to above average CB. The difference between a veteran and a draft hopeful is the you know what you get with the experience in the NFL rather guys in which, Billy once said, draft guys are crap shoots.While I respect Marvin and Browns decision to not up the anty, it didn't change the perception the Bengals are trying to change. And now we are forced to pick up a CB rather than a high DT pick. If we would have picked up a quality CB, we would have had more freedom in the draft, but now we don't. Then again, if the Bengals KNEW they would be strapped for cash, they should have thought twice about the contract given to Chad Johnson. If the Bengals knew they'd be strapped for cash, they shouldn't have signed Thornton (6-year, $22 mil). Then again, if the Bengals knew how much money they have left and use it to their advantage, they'd be able to offer more than 2.5 mil for a Pro Bowl CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 The reality is, that we didn't really enter this Free AGency with much more money than what we had last year .. and we were still able to sign 5 players, and 4 on defense. The market for cornerbacks skyrocketed on some players that I think have serious question marks, so I won't blame the Bengals for that , because it's something out of their control.Champ Bailey...18 picks in 5 seasons...just under 4 a year...good, but not terrific.---and 60 million for a cornerback is just ridiculous.Plus he gives up touchdowns..Something Deion Didn't.Antwoine Winfield....5-9 corner with only 6 career interceptions..----the Vikings were just desperate, because he is going to get used and abused..Shawn Springs....30 million for a guy that has hardly played the last 2 seasons.Fernando Bryant....25 million for a guy that doesn't play the run.Ahmed Plummer... considering that the 49ers lost half their offensive line,and T.O., resigning him should have been a sinch !Troy Vincent....( 33 by the time the season starts.. good corner, but he's looking for a pasture to lay down in ,not greener pastures.Bobby Taylor... Not as good as Vincent, and expects to be paid more because he's younger than Vincent. HA !If you ask me, we can get better talent for the long run in the draft. We have some youth with Weathersby, and the Safety play will be better. Day 2 of the draft still offers some good players at the corner positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 I agree. I'll lay money right now that no matter how the draft goes down, come pick 17 the BPA is going to be a CB... I'll take that "bet"! It'll be a defensive lineman, tackle or an end! What's the bet? They were talking with Lionel Dalton yesterday and the rumor mill continues to place Daryl Gardner in stripes after June 1. Which makes sense: If they can't get a veteran corner, they absotively, posolutely have to go with a veteran DT (or two) who can help take the heat off the secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcat Bengal Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 While I respect Marvin and Browns decision to not up the anty, it didn't change the perception the Bengals are trying to change. And now we are forced to pick up a CB rather than a high DT pick. If we would have picked up a quality CB, we would have had more freedom in the draft, but now we don't. Then again, if the Bengals KNEW they would be strapped for cash, they should have thought twice about the contract given to Chad Johnson. If the Bengals knew they'd be strapped for cash, they shouldn't have signed Thornton (6-year, $22 mil). Then again, if the Bengals knew how much money they have left and use it to their advantage, they'd be able to offer more than 2.5 mil for a Pro Bowl CB. This is a good draft year for WR's, DT's and CB's......I think we can find a gem in 2nd or 3rd rounds..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcat Bengal Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 The reality is, that we didn't really enter this Free AGency with much more money than what we had last year .. and we were still able to sign 5 players, and 4 on defense. The market for cornerbacks skyrocketed on some players that I think have serious question marks, so I won't blame the Bengals for that , because it's something out of their control.Champ Bailey...18 picks in 5 seasons...just under 4 a year...good, but not terrific.---and 60 million for a cornerback is just ridiculous.Plus he gives up touchdowns..Something Deion Didn't.Antwoine Winfield....5-9 corner with only 6 career interceptions..----the Vikings were just desperate, because he is going to get used and abused..Shawn Springs....30 million for a guy that has hardly played the last 2 seasons.Fernando Bryant....25 million for a guy that doesn't play the run.Ahmed Plummer... considering that the 49ers lost half their offensive line,and T.O., resigning him should have been a sinch !Troy Vincent....( 33 by the time the season starts.. good corner, but he's looking for a pasture to lay down in ,not greener pastures.Bobby Taylor... Not as good as Vincent, and expects to be paid more because he's younger than Vincent. HA !If you ask me, we can get better talent for the long run in the draft. We have some youth with Weathersby, and the Safety play will be better. Day 2 of the draft still offers some good players at the corner positions. There you go! I like this guy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 While I respect Marvin and Browns decision to not up the anty, it didn't change the perception the Bengals are trying to change. And now we are forced to pick up a CB rather than a high DT pick. If we would have picked up a quality CB, we would have had more freedom in the draft, but now we don't. Then again, if the Bengals KNEW they would be strapped for cash, they should have thought twice about the contract given to Chad Johnson. If the Bengals knew they'd be strapped for cash, they shouldn't have signed Thornton (6-year, $22 mil). Then again, if the Bengals knew how much money they have left and use it to their advantage, they'd be able to offer more than 2.5 mil for a Pro Bowl CB. This is an interesting point and the more I think of it, the more it sounds like Lewis. It's also interesting that you mention CJ because I was going to use him as part of the example. Marvin has said since he got here that he wasn't going to overspend on guys. As Chris points out there's a lot of that going on these days with regards to cb's. It's been his M.O. to get guys at bargain prices and see what they do for the team before committing to the money ( as he did with Chad ). Given that, I'd expect Marvin would be more likely to pick up a Gardner and let him prove what he's worth to the team than to opt for a Vincent and sink in a lot of money up front. It's the oposite of the " show me the money " routine. Marvins attitude seems to be I'll show you the money, but you ain't getting it till you show me the results. Might worlk well with guys we already have on the team that need an inducement or with rookies that we draft as a that's the way we do things here philosophy, but I doubt that it'll endear us to many of the top flite FA's who figure they've already proved their worth and are looking for a payoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Might worlk well with guys we already have on the team that need an inducement or with rookies that we draft as a that's the way we do things here philosophy, but I doubt that it'll endear us to many of the top flite FA's who figure they've already proved their worth and are looking for a payoff. And that's just it...I don't want to see the team pay for what a player did on his previous team.....So I don't think we mist out on the "big CB" I think we missed overpaying a player for their past production....The only corner on the market that was probably worth the money that has been paid out this season was Bailey, and even then you hae to ask yourself how are you hurting other postitions by giving up that kind of money to one player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBrooks Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 I think we still have a shot at a decent corner to hold down the spot while Weathersby and hopefully a second round draft prime to take over.What does everyone think about Mario Edwards from Dallas. Not a shut-down guy, but probably someone we could get for a budget. He looked good inside the scheme last year for the Boys.Could he fit in here for a budgetary price tag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpou Posted March 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Lewis get the most bang for the buck. Love the idea of not getting paid for my past work T.Vincent at 33 y/o. Don't like M.Edwards he's another A.Hawkins. We'll just draft the best CB available in 1st RD. I do think we should sign D.Gardner for the min. $ and see what he does. Guys pay attention we are watching 1st hand how to build a team. Mark my words 3 years down the road we are going to be amazed how good we are & the depth we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 To answer your question JBrooks.... Mario Edwards has been the Cowboys version of Artrell Hawkins !. He's got speed, he should be able to play bigger against receivers, but he doesn't. There was a knock on his passion for the game coming out of Florida St. 4 years ago. -- I' forget who always says this.. but I'll quote 'em..Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonFnKitna Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 To those of you saying that Vincent was to expensive/overpayed for us, you are wrong. Tory James makes more then Vincent, and at about the same age, Vincent is a far superior player. Corners are a premium in the league now, so it costs more to get a good one. Pretty soon we will have to live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 How much does James make, and where can you find out what each player gets paid...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 James signed a 4-year $14.4 million deal, so he's actually making a skosh more than Vincent on a per-year basis, 3.6 v. 3.3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 To those of you saying that Vincent was to expensive/overpayed for us, you are wrong. Tory James makes more then Vincent, and at about the same age, Vincent is a far superior player. Corners are a premium in the league now, so it costs more to get a good one. Pretty soon we will have to live with it. Tory James will be 30 when the season starts, Vincent is 33...That's three more years of wear and tear on him that James doesn't have....And Vincent is getting paid for what hi did, not what he will do..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 To those of you saying that Vincent was to expensive/overpayed for us, you are wrong. Tory James makes more then Vincent, and at about the same age, Vincent is a far superior player. Corners are a premium in the league now, so it costs more to get a good one. Pretty soon we will have to live with it.Tory James will be 30 when the season starts, Vincent is 33...That's three more years of wear and tear on him that James doesn't have....And Vincent is getting paid for what hi did, not what he will do..... Plus Vincent is a four-time Pro Bowl player. But it matter not now, the Bills have him and we should move on before we all start cutting each others throats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Like I said before, Vincent wasn't looking for Greener pastures.. he was just looking for a pasture to lay down in. Con-grats Bills, you're gonna need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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