ML reviews FA to date

[membengal]

He had his best year with Marvin, but he fought it, kicking and screaming, the whole way. Marvin basically had him play like Pollack did last year, which requires the player to actually use his brain and be able to do more than just use the same football instincts he's been relying upon since Pop Warner. And LaVar wasn't hearing it.

Now, look back at last season, where another top defensive coordinator challenged LaVar, and see what happened. Same attitude, but without the results. And the team chose to have his bloated contract ride the bench.

My take on it is different than yours. I think Marvin attempted to minimize the undisciplined play that Arrington is known for by using him largely in the designated pass rusher role. He essentially took the thinking part of the game out of Arrington's control and instead did everything possible to maximize Arrington's rare speed, quickness, and power. And he only using him in coverage when down and distance took half the guesswork out of the defensive playcalling.

On most plays all Lavar needed to know was eyes forward, ears back, go get the QB. Pure Joker stuff, right? Arrington clearly didn't like the role at first...remember his loud complaint about how he wasn't a DE?...but the role did grow on him before the season ended, largely because Arrington suddenly had many people comparing him to LT. However, those comparisons stopped almost immediately after Lewis boarded a plane for the river city, and I'm guessing that Arrington noticed.

One of the things that has changed since Marvin left is the new coaches have all demanded that Arrington become a more complete player, and he hasn't been up to the task. He's simply not a very good read and react type of OLB, and that's where complaints about his lack of discipline begin. But regardless of what anyone here thinks about the potential signing it's become obvious that someone with the Bengals wants Arrington in stripes, and knowing how much it'll cost under the best circumstances there has to be a very good reason why. So ask yourself what that might be instead of focusing on the negative. Try to come up with your own theory why they're talking.

BTW, here's my theory in a nutshell. Lavar Arrington can play the Greg Lloyd role opposite David Pollacks Kevin Greene.

Crackerjack. Absolutely on the point summation of this.

And, it's the reason I continue to hope against hope they get him. I wouldn't mind seeing the Bengals play kill the quarterback for the next few years for a change. I think getting Arrington would give them a chance to do that.

[jjakq27]

I wouldn't mind seeing the Bengals play kill the quarterback for the next few years for a change. I think getting Arrington would give them a chance to do that.

As much as I like offensive football, it would be nice to have a kick-ass defense for a change. Again, they are so hung up on finding a QB but the Ravens won the SB with Trent Dilfer at QB in 2000. They can't beat you if they don't score.

[ratmandu]

If you are going after big money,free agent linebackers then I say keep the money and use it to move up in the draft and sign AJ Hawk .

This dude is the real deal !!!

Could you imagine putting him in the mix w/Pollack,Odell and Madieu ???

With, Pollack and Hawk on the outsides and Odell in the middle the Bengals would immediately have the most aggressive, hardest hitting, meanest, fastest and hungriest group of linebackers in the entire NFL !!!

And,remember Mike Brown absolutely loves Ohio State players !!!

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Hell, I'd rather have the OTHER linebacker from OSU than Arrington's lazy ass.

[TJJackson]

Mike Brown absolutely loves Ohio State players

That right there is reason enough for me to not want a single Ohio State player on the team

[Spor_tees]

Mike Brown absolutely loves Ohio State players

That right there is reason enough for me to not want a single Ohio State player on the team

If Mike Brown wants to satisfy his need for an Ohio State player, Draft Kudla in the fourth round. Or even draft Shlegel there as a replacement special teams player.

[ArmyBengal]

People are saying they don't understand why we don't want Arrington. I say why do you want him ?? Leaving alone his attitude, why would you find it necessary to drop 6 million a year on a position that is not a need ?? Why would you want another guy our SH*TTY defensive tackles can't keep blockers off of ?? Why would you want a guy that would make it ALOT harder to extend our offensive linemen that are a greater need ?? Oh yeah, so we can have a possible Pro-bowler on the team...

**sarcasm on** Great idea !!! **sarcasm off**

The money would be better spent ANYWHERE ELSE !!!

WHODEY !!!

[HoTbOy]

I also see nothing wrong with our LB's(except BSims give to LJ) but if it had to happen i wouldn't be mad...granted we do need a DT but LArrington and just the thought of and improved OThurman, they are going to hurt some one this year...BELIEVE IT...

[ratmandu]

If Mike Brown wants to satisfy his need for an Ohio State player, Draft Kudla in the fourth round. Or even draft Shlegel there as a replacement special teams player.

I agree on both .

Kudla is the stongest player in the draft and is extremely quick and he is superb at bull rushing the quarterback.

And, Schlegel is almost as stong as Kudla and is also one mean dude.

Don't foget about Bobby Carpenter !!!

He is alot like Pollack and can be used as a defensive end or an outside linebacker

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

People are saying they don't understand why we don't want Arrington. I say why do you want him ?? Leaving alone his attitude, why would you find it necessary to drop 6 million a year on a position that is not a need ?? Why would you want another guy our SH*TTY defensive tackles can't keep blockers off of ?? Why would you want a guy that would make it ALOT harder to extend our offensive linemen that are a greater need ?? Oh yeah, so we can have a possible Pro-bowler on the team...

**sarcasm on** Great idea !!! **sarcasm off**

The money would be better spent ANYWHERE ELSE !!!

WHODEY !!!

1) He doesn't have an attitude problem. He gets frustrated when coaches completely misuse him, but even then he busts his ass to try to fit in the system.

2) I don't think he'll cost $6M a year. I agree, that's too much. But if it gets down to, say, $4.5M, why the hell not? He's got a lot of perceived baggage due to the WAS coaching staff bashing him in the media. It's bull, but you've all bought into it, and a lot of teams have probably too. I think we can get him for a bargain.

3) Putting Arrington on the field with Pollack lets Pollack play more as a down lineman, and helps us disguise the hell out of coverages.

4) Arrington is still damned good. He's athletic, he has a motor, and he's damned smart. He also works his butt off.

The question is, why *wouldn't* you want a guy like that, *if* you can get him at a bargain price?

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

People are saying they don't understand why we don't want Arrington. I say why do you want him ?? Leaving alone his attitude, why would you find it necessary to drop 6 million a year on a position that is not a need ?? Why would you want another guy our SH*TTY defensive tackles can't keep blockers off of ?? Why would you want a guy that would make it ALOT harder to extend our offensive linemen that are a greater need ?? Oh yeah, so we can have a possible Pro-bowler on the team...

**sarcasm on** Great idea !!! **sarcasm off**

The money would be better spent ANYWHERE ELSE !!!

WHODEY !!!

1) He doesn't have an attitude problem. He gets frustrated when coaches completely misuse him, but even then he busts his ass to try to fit in the system.

2) I don't think he'll cost $6M a year. I agree, that's too much. But if it gets down to, say, $4.5M, why the hell not? He's got a lot of perceived baggage due to the WAS coaching staff bashing him in the media. It's bull, but you've all bought into it, and a lot of teams have probably too. I think we can get him for a bargain.

3) Putting Arrington on the field with Pollack lets Pollack play more as a down lineman, and helps us disguise the hell out of coverages.

4) Arrington is still damned good. He's athletic, he has a motor, and he's damned smart. He also works his butt off.

The question is, why *wouldn't* you want a guy like that, *if* you can get him at a bargain price?

IF you can get him at a bargain price, sure, he's worth a flier. HOWEVER, he's not coming for a bargain price. He just paid $4 million to get out of his contract with Washington. Do you think a guy like him who gets frustrated when coaches "misuse him" is going to accept any contract that doesn't give him that $4 million back guaranteed, immediately? Not likely.

Oh, and as for "misusing" him, it's not HIS job to tell the COACHES how he should be used. It's his job to go out and do his job.

Lets say we bring him here, and we use him to rush the passer like he says is his job. But Pollack ends up being better at it, so we leave him in on 3rd down to rush the passer from the linebacker position. Do you really think this guy is going to be any less of a malcontent if Marvin is the one not letting him tell the coaches how they should do their job with him?

[kingwilly]

If, If, If...if wishes were were horses, beggars would ride.......

Is there any point to speculating as to whether Arrington might get mad if Pollack is a better end-rusher thatn he is on passing downs...on grass versus divisional opponents after week 8?

Arrington would need to prove to the staff he's ready to come here and work the system but its on the staff to use Arringtons strengths to make the system more effective.

Arrington would substantially upgrade, from an experience and physical perspective, our LB's...It could spell the end of B. Simmons, who would then have to be considered an expensive back-up.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Arrington is no better physically than David Pollack. He is not going to be able to replace Simmons. Simmons is a quicker smaller linebacker for the weak side while both Pollack and Arrington are bigger tougher strong side linebackers. If we signed Arrington and cut Simmons, Arrington wouldn't replace Simmons. Landon Johnson would replace Simmons.

[Kazkal]

how many osu players did we take last year ? ohya none.

I guess somepeople don't want a O-line next year.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

how many osu players did we take last year ? ohya none.

The whole "Mike Brown loves OSU" thing is all about no scouting departing in past days. OSU players were ones our scouts were able to see, so we picked more of them than say Florida players because we didnt' have a scout to send to Florida.

[ArmyBengal]

Once again, nothing in anyone's comments to address how the SH*TTY D-line gets better enabling these "fast athletic" LB's do what they were brought here to do. Also no mention of how we get the O-line extended, but hey GREAT IDEA to bring him in... While we are at it, lets trade up to #2 and draft Lienart because Palmer's an injury prone cupcake...

WHODEY !!!

[kingwilly]

TNBT...are you really gonna try to convince me that Simmons or LJ are quicker than Arrington...or Pollack for that matter...and the reason you would not put Arrington on B-Simms weak-side is because he is too big?? THey ARE ALMOST THE SAME SIZE...give me a break...that is totally asinine. Follow-on to that is, would an opposng O-Coordinator like to run weak-side at Arrington with D-Jackson backing him up???

Beyond your total mis-judgement of the clear advantage that Arrington would offer over Simmons OR LJ...the option of having a very viable 3-4 LB set also is omitted...granted someone needs to shift over nose (Smith...B-Rob...hell, even geathers has the quicks, if not size to work the angle) and someone needs to sidle up to Odell...Simmons would suffice if he is not cut....

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

What we ask Simmons to do, Arrington can't handle. He blew up in Washington because he wasn't being used the way he wanted to be used.

He's a cancer, plain and simple.

[kingwilly]

So...what you are saying, utilization-wise, is that Arrington would be better used in the role that Pollack serves....ok, fine...next question begged is, can Pollack be more productive than Simmons on the "Weak-side"...my bet is yes, he would be more effective than Simmons.

Arrington is a cancer the same way Chad is....Chad blew up because Kitna would not/could not throw him the ball at the most important times. I guess we should cut Chad....?

Arrington blew up in Washington because he had been hurt, got into a MAJOR contract fight because his agent didn't know how to read, then had D-Coordinators change scheme over and over....sounds like a recipe for a blow-up...not about to blame him, even though he probably shares the blame.

This issue will go to the level of trust ML will feel with Arrington. If Arrington can come to work and get the job done...and not cost $6MM/yr, it is up to ML and Bres to get the most out of their talent/resources....G. Williams in Washington is a "Scheme-first" guy, talent be damned...It works to a point but sometimes you've to use the strengths of the talent you have to get the most out of them...imagine Chad in a purely West-coast offense...6 yrd passes 12 yard passes...how long would that last till he blew up?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

IF you can get him at a bargain price, sure, he's worth a flier. HOWEVER, he's not coming for a bargain price. He just paid $4 million to get out of his contract with Washington. Do you think a guy like him who gets frustrated when coaches "misuse him" is going to accept any contract that doesn't give him that $4 million back guaranteed, immediately? Not likely.

Oh, and as for "misusing" him, it's not HIS job to tell the COACHES how he should be used. It's his job to go out and do his job.

Lets say we bring him here, and we use him to rush the passer like he says is his job. But Pollack ends up being better at it, so we leave him in on 3rd down to rush the passer from the linebacker position. Do you really think this guy is going to be any less of a malcontent if Marvin is the one not letting him tell the coaches how they should do their job with him?

See, I view that $4M thing differently than you. He didn't buy himself out so he could get more money elsewhere, he bought himself out because hated playing in Washington. It wasn't a money thing at all. He will not make as much this year as he would have in Washington, and he knows it.

As for misusing him - people say exactly the opposite about, say, Mike Vick. If you have a uniquely talented player, as a coach, dontcha *try* to work your system around his skills just a little bit? Players need to fit in schemes, but if you have a round peg and a square hole, you're just going to piss the both of you off by trying to make it work.

And he DID still go out and do his job, he still worked hard, and he tried to make it work. But if your employer told you to quit doing a job you're the best at and start doing a job you're not cut out for, you wouldn't like it either. He did everything he could to get back on the field. He was a beast in the playoff game against TB - 10 tackles, 1 FF, 1 INT. Hell, he ended up with 47 tackles in the regular season and didn't play half the downs.

In the end, he knows Marvin's defense and expectations. I really don't think he's going to come here unless he's happy, and Marvin's happy, about what his role in the defense is going to be. I have little doubt that he'll come here and be a model citizen - this guy's not TO. Now, whether we can make it fit financially and in the defense, that remains to be seen. Bu if we can get him for $4.5, I'd sign the contract before he blinks.

[HairOnFire]

But if we can get him for $4.5, I'd sign the contract before he blinks.

I think it'll take more, and I'd pay it. A quick glance around this years version of free agency shows plenty of examples of very average players getting 5 million per. So why shouldn't a still young pro bowl LB?

BTW, the argument about how this doesn't help the D-Line is pie-eyed. You address the D-Line when the opportunity arises. Until that day comes you sign a starting SS when you can. You pick up a backup QB when things fall into place. You upgrade your special teams after they've suffered a loss. And you attempt to upgrade an OLB position when a player who strikes your interest becomes available.

Last, if Marvin wasn't interested in working with Arrington again we wouldn't be talking about this. So four year old articles be damned, I'm satisfied that Marvin thinks Arrington can be an important building block in his system.

[Spain]

Now way I pay thet for arrington, 11 sacks his best season aint s**te, the guy better get used to an incentive based deal. The thing that gets me is he hasnt signed anywhere yet. As far as Im concerned rebuild in the draft get some cheap fixes in here.

[andybren]

My take on it is different than yours. I think Marvin attempted to minimize the undisciplined play that Arrington is known for by using him largely in the designated pass rusher role. He essentially took the thinking part of the game out of Arrington's control and instead did everything possible to maximize Arrington's rare speed, quickness, and power. And he only used him in coverage when down and distance took half the guesswork out of the defensive playcalling.

So after 3 years of developing a team defense based upon smart, versatile defenders that are drafted wisely and developed internally, Marvin is going to bring in a guy who is expensive, non-smart, and non-versatile? I just don't see it. If every other part of that defense was firing on all cylinders, and you've got money to spare, sure, take the chance. Until then, I say we're not ready for any hired guns.

One of the things that has changed since Marvin left is the new coaches have all demanded that Arrington become a more complete player, and he hasn't been up to the task. He's simply not a very good read and react type of OLB, and that's where complaints about his lack of discipline begin.

The "undisciplined" quote came from Marvin himself, not the coaches that followed him.

But regardless of what anyone here thinks about the potential signing it's become obvious that someone with the Bengals wants Arrington in stripes, and knowing how much it'll cost under the best circumstances there has to be a very good reason why. So ask yourself what that might be instead of focusing on the negative. Try to come up with your own theory why they're talking.

We don't know that the Bengals are talking to him. We're getting all our information from agents and other teams. My theory is that it is to Arrington's benefit to have Marvin's interest, both professionally and financially, and it's extremely easy for his agent to say that Marvin loves the guy. I also theorize that the Bengals have been in contact with dozens of FA's that will never be offered a contract, much less wear stripes in the near future.

As for the quote that the Bengals were tracking Arrington's every move? I'd be disappointed if they weren't. Doesn't mean they expect to sign the guy.

[HairOnFire]

So after 3 years of developing a team defense based upon smart, versatile defenders that are drafted wisely and developed internally, Marvin is going to bring in a guy who is expensive, non-smart, and non-versatile? I just don't see it. If every other part of that defense was firing on all cylinders, and you've got money to spare, sure, take the chance. Until then, I say we're not ready for any hired guns.

I've heard Tony Dungy describe his scheme as a 10 man unit with a designated freelancer, Dwight Freeney.

The "undisciplined" quote came from Marvin himself, not the coaches that followed him.

I know. That's why I gave my opinion about how Marvin dealt with the lack of discipline by taking the thinking part of the game away from Lavar by using him in the Joker role, a switch that Arrington didn't like at first, but later grew comfortable with. So comfortable in fact, that by seasons end Arrington was being used on 3rd downs as a true hand-on-the-ground DE. Damned effective too.

[andybren]

So after 3 years of developing a team defense based upon smart, versatile defenders that are drafted wisely and developed internally, Marvin is going to bring in a guy who is expensive, non-smart, and non-versatile? I just don't see it. If every other part of that defense was firing on all cylinders, and you've got money to spare, sure, take the chance. Until then, I say we're not ready for any hired guns.

I've heard Tony Dungy describe his scheme as a 10 man unit with a designated freelancer, Dwight Freeney.

The Colts' defense is better than the Bengals'. They can afford to have a freelancer. And a freelancer on the D-line is a little bit different from a freelancer who needs to be able to drop into coverage.