Sosa - Roids = Retired

[AMC]

I find these pics very telling. Especially now that his career is in the dumper...

No positive drug test or not....IMO, this guy shouldn't even sniff the HOF...

[redsbengalsbucks]

Add Bonds and Mcguire to that list too.

[Stripes]

Add Bonds and Mcguire to that list too.

And in so doing you have three of the top six (I think) homerun hitters in baseball history all emerging in the same era, and all being somehow linked to the steroids controversy. Bad times. Willie Mays is still third in my book, while The Babe / Hank Aaron won't budge no matter what Bonds does.

[AMC]

Add Bonds and Mcguire to that list too.

And in so doing you have three of the top six (I think) homerun hitters in baseball history all emerging in the same era, and all being somehow linked to the steroids controversy. Bad times. Willie Mays is still third in my book, while The Babe / Hank Aaron won't budge no matter what Bonds does.

Amen TDB. The Top 3 will always be Aaron, Ruth and Mays until someone legit comes up and takes it.

[Stripes]

Makes you wish Griffey wouldn't have struggled with so many injuries... He really had such a great chance at getting up with those three, and nobody puts him in the steroids mold.

[bengalboomer7]

It isn't the Hall of Assumptions or the Hall of accustations.

The voting on the HOF is supposed to be based on what you did on the field, not in a COngressional hearing.

Steroids weren't always illegial in baseball and since testing, he's never tested positive.

Look, I don't like the guy and in reality, I'm not defending him.

But, based on FACTS and not opinion the guy is a Hall of Famer, and a Hall of Shamer too

[Kirkendall]

Sammy isn't a hall of famer and writers and old timer Hall of fame residents will agree. His stats are great, and the argument that steroids weren’t illegal is silly. Fact is, cheaters are viewed with a wicked eye and will be voted as such.

Nor should he be. IF he does get voted in, then the creditability of the Hall of Fame institution will be in question, and NO ONE wants something else in MLB to be questioned. The hall of fame is meant for glory, not bringing up controversial topics. It's about honor, not questioning someone's credibility.

I see your point Boomer, I really do. If I had not known what I know, and no one was the wiser when Sammy retired. Then I put on a different hat because it would be about his great successes on the field, not him refusing to be tested questioning whether or not he cheated.

[Whur CHad At?]

Before

After

Biggest Difference I have ever seen. Completely obvious.

[AMC]

Before

After

Biggest Difference I have ever seen. Completely obvious.

Right on Whur...Find some of McGwire too....

For anyone to say, well he didn't fail a drug test is a very stupid comment and downright naive. Especially given the nonexistence of a good drug policy in MLB.

I mean how obvious does it have to be?????

[bengalboomer7]

Look, I know it's obvious, but isn't it Innocent until PROVEN guilty.

The Hall of Fame is full of cheaters, drunks, womanizers, criminals, and more. But with steroids we all of the sudden get a conscious. PULEEEZE.

Voting rules stipulate you vote on performance. Numbers don't lie

I don't like them getting in either, but they should be in.

And so should Pete Rose.

[Kirkendall]

But BB, he is guilty. Remember he didn't "KNOWINGLY" take some rubbing substance during a Grande jury?

The Hall of Fame is full of cheaters, drunks, womanizers, criminals, and more. But with steroids we all of the sudden get a conscious. PULEEEZE.

What cheater has gotten in? Again, the question is about CHEATING. Not CHARACTER.

[bengalboomer7]

We've had this argument before, I think.

Gaylord Perry, Mr. Vaseline.

Not only was his cheating overlooked, he got into the Hall because he's a cheater, and people just laugh it off like it was no big deal.

Now, he used a scientifically made substance to enhance his game just like Bonds and his numbers probably wouldn't be the same withou it.. So how is Bond's cheating different than Perry's

Look at it this way, in a criminal court case, could you prove without a reasonable doubt that Bonds took steroids during his career. There jsut isn't any evidence to convict the man, even though the court of public opinion already has

And, without EVER, EVER, EEEEVVVVER failing a drug test isn't this a moot point. We know steroids are bad, but they weren't tested for, and by MLB rules weren't illegial to use.

And once again, Hall of Fame voting rules state you judge a player by what he did on the field and that only. Doesn't matter if I "assume" he was on steroids or if I think he was a jerk (which he is) Based on his baseball career, and that only, He's a shoe in

Let me clear up that I'm not a Bonds fan. I think he's scum and I think he took steroids, often. But what I think and what I know is two different things. If Bonds can sit there straight faced and live with his lie, then who am I to judge. Maybe all that money is enough to let him sleep at night.

Lastly, I think it's ridiculous writers get to vote on Hall of Famers. Some of these twerps couldn't hit a cut off man to save their lives, yet they get to judge whether a player is worthy or not. Let the past players vote.

here's what I dont get. None of the owners have been held responsible for this. You can't tell me they didn't know tis was going on. They just saw the balls flying out of the park and the ticket sales coming back and chose to look the other way. They are the ones that should be held accountable for baseball being in the state it's in. Just greedy businessmen looking to make more money.

[Whur CHad At?]

Before:

After:

All I gotta say is wowzers

[Stripes]

WCA, could you possibly have found a gayer picture than that?!

[Kirkendall]

Gaylord Perry' date=' Mr. Vaseline.[/quote']

I'll give you that. I think it's much different, but I'll give it to you nonetheless.

Gaylord Perry, Mr. Vaseline.

Look at it this way, in a criminal court case, could you prove without a reasonable doubt that Bonds took steroids during his career. There jsut isn't any evidence to convict the man, even though the court of public opinion already has

Again, he admitted to "unknowingly" put on "enhancement" hormones to a grande jury. What else would you like?

And once again' date=' Hall of Fame voting rules state you judge a player by what he did on the field and that only.[/quote']

So explain Jim Rice or Bert Blyleven's non Hall of Fame status. Their numbers are very comparable to current hall of famers.

And, without EVER, EVER, EEEEVVVVER failing a drug test isn't this a moot point. We know steroids are bad, but they weren't tested for, and by MLB rules weren't illegial to use.

There's no rule to assaulting someone in MLB. Should we attach the same philosophy here?

Lastly' date=' I think it's ridiculous writers get to vote on Hall of Famers. Some of these twerps couldn't hit a cut off man to save their lives, yet they get to judge whether a player is worthy or not. Let the past players vote.[/quote']

Agreed. Back in the day that was the best way for players that deserved to be have an unbiased view. They don't need to be apart of the process.

None of the owners have been held responsible for this. You can't tell me they didn't know tis was going on. They just saw the balls flying out of the park and the ticket sales coming back and chose to look the other way. They are the ones that should be held accountable for baseball being in the state it's in. Just greedy businessmen looking to make more money.

So now it becomes a character issue?

[redsfan2]

Makes you wish Griffey wouldn't have struggled with so many injuries... He really had such a great chance at getting up with those three, and nobody puts him in the steroids mold.

Of all the guys ( contemporary ) that were mentioned ...... only Griffey has hit the warhouse at Camden Yards. One of the Damdest shots I've seen. Jr. also does it with technique rather tham a ton of inflated muscle. Don't write him off too quick. Nolan Ryan was Very effective into his 40's because his technique was impeccable.

[bengalboomer7]

Makes you wish Griffey wouldn't have struggled with so many injuries... He really had such a great chance at getting up with those three, and nobody puts him in the steroids mold.

Of all the guys ( contemporary ) that were mentioned ...... only Griffey has hit the warhouse at Camden Yards. One of the Damdest shots I've seen. Jr. also does it with technique rather tham a ton of inflated muscle. Don't write him off too quick. Nolan Ryan was Very effective into his 40's because his technique was impeccable.

It's not the technique that would worry me, it's the bat speed

Without Griffey losing all those seasons with the Reds, he would almost easily be the Greatest Player ever. Even with the injuries, you can still make a case.

[Whur CHad At?]

WCA, could you possibly have found a gayer picture than that?!

Sorry, that was the only one that truley showed how bad he was on roids

[redsfan2]

Makes you wish Griffey wouldn't have struggled with so many injuries... He really had such a great chance at getting up with those three, and nobody puts him in the steroids mold.

Of all the guys ( contemporary ) that were mentioned ...... only Griffey has hit the warhouse at Camden Yards. One of the Damdest shots I've seen. Jr. also does it with technique rather tham a ton of inflated muscle. Don't write him off too quick. Nolan Ryan was Very effective into his 40's because his technique was impeccable.

It's not the technique that would worry me, it's the bat speed

Without Griffey losing all those seasons with the Reds, he would almost easily be the Greatest Player ever. Even with the injuries, you can still make a case.

Refreshing to see another unabashed Jr. fan. I was thinking that I was the only one around. The point about the bat speed is a good one. I still think that he'll be able to hang in there by compensating for the lack of bat speed with better timing from his years of experience. His arm still looked pretty good last year as well.

[rwalling]

With all due respect to the ailing HOFer, do we have to consider Kirby Puckett for a spot on the all roid team? Between the off the field issues after retirement, his cartoon character body shape, and now a stroke at a young age it strikes me as things me go hmmmm.

[buck3y3d]

With all due respect to the ailing HOFer, do we have to consider Kirby Puckett for a spot on the all roid team? Between the off the field issues after retirement, his cartoon character body shape, and now a stroke at a young age it strikes me as things me go hmmmm.

Possible, but he was slightly before the real roid rush began. I agree these are symptoms of steroids, but there also signs of obesity.

Puckett is a very, very large man.

On a sadder note, Kirby Puckett just died. He was one of my favorite player. God bless his family.

[Kirkendall]

With all due respect to the ailing HOFer, do we have to consider Kirby Puckett for a spot on the all roid team? Between the off the field issues after retirement, his cartoon character body shape, and now a stroke at a young age it strikes me as things me go hmmmm.

Are you hoping for an MLB witchhunt? With all due respect, but that's just idiotic.

[rwalling]

With all due respect to the ailing HOFer, do we have to consider Kirby Puckett for a spot on the all roid team? Between the off the field issues after retirement, his cartoon character body shape, and now a stroke at a young age it strikes me as things me go hmmmm.

Are you hoping for an MLB witchhunt? With all due respect, but that's just idiotic.

Easy now...

I'm just saying that a great citizen, family man and speed baseball player (see Narron's comments from this am) who turns into a power hitter, wife beater and 45 year-old stroke victim strikes me as suspicious. Based on what I heard yesterday on ESPN radio, I'm not the only one.

Save your finger for real problems.

[Kirkendall]

With all due respect to the ailing HOFer, do we have to consider Kirby Puckett for a spot on the all roid team? Between the off the field issues after retirement, his cartoon character body shape, and now a stroke at a young age it strikes me as things me go hmmmm.

Are you hoping for an MLB witchhunt? With all due respect, but that's just idiotic.

Easy now...

I'm just saying that a great citizen, family man and speed baseball player (see Narron's comments from this am) who turns into a power hitter, wife beater and 45 year-old stroke victim strikes me as suspicious. Based on what I heard yesterday on ESPN radio, I'm not the only one.

Yea, actually you are. No one, at least credibily that doesn't take on your witch-hunt, explains how Kirby Puckett's 207 lifetime homeruns are a result of 'roids. And while he "wife-beat" he was ballooning in weight so much that people were openly concerned about his weight. So how does any of that explain roids. Seriously, you brought it up. Now explain your reasoning. Because some fat pudgy guy "beat" someone?