princeton
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Posts posted by princeton
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11 minutes ago, Wraith said:
You should watch it, it is enlightening and concerning. Now that being said, there is also quite alot of very good Ossai tape and he is very highly regarded in evaluation circles. I am not saying it was a bad pick or that he will be a bad player for us, I just have concerns and would have very much preferred them to go oline at that draft position.
sounds like I don't want to see it, and that we should have drafted Jenkins
it's a pretty bizarre year-- several players opted out, many seasons were shorter, and players that did play had odd practice schedules due to COVID. Zoom meetings stink. The Bengals, like a lot of teams, put a lot of emphasis of Senior Bowl performance, which is such a small sample set.
Some of the teams that excel at drafting will do much more poorly than usual, due to lack of data. But since the Bengals do NOT excel at drafting, maybe we'll wind up on top for a change?
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56 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:
Note: Many Bengal fans swore up and down that Whitworth was guard for YEARS. It was based on him struggling early at LT when Levi's knees finally wore down in 2008. I think Trent Cole abused him for 3 sacks in a game. That impression lasted for years.
As a matter of fact IF it weren't for the NFL giving access to the All-22 allowing for products such PFF to thrive, you would have been laughed at on message boards for merely suggesting Whitworth was in the class of Joe Thomas as he grew and excelled at LT.
It took alot of PFF (or similar products) pimping before Bengal fans started to realize his elite status at LT.
Levi Jones suffered a lot too in fan perception. First he was considered a "reach" on draft day. Then gave up a big game sealing sack to Freeney as a rookie. What was overlooked was how confident the coaching staff was letting him deal on the edge 1v1 and the depth of drops.
IMO, he never got credit for being the best LT in 2005. Unfortunately his knee issues never gave him longevity to prove it out.
Whit was an iron man (and still is); Jonah lacks Lap's most valued ability: availability. Bengals needed an upgrade and didn't get it. Look out, Joe Burrows
I was interested in Colts' Chris Ballard saying that he didn't draft a LT, in spite of the team's extreme need, because it was a good draft for right tackles but not for left tackles. Top LTs, and even pretty good LTs, are rare
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24 minutes ago, Wraith said:
It was a sentence, hardly an evaluation....what exactly do you disagree with? He is 5'9" 170 lbs so he is definitely small, his 10 and 20 yard splits are in the 90th percentile so he is quick and fast in short bursts. I will admit however I have spent 0 time breaking down his tape. I figured that the domestic violence issue would have taken him off our board. In the last two drafts we have been aggressive about eliminate potential character issues.
more likely he's taking exception to my statement that Jonah Williams is no Andrew Whitworth.
I didn't watch the Ossai/Jenkins tape that you mentioned. Pretty bad, eh?
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the Bengals came out of the 2020 draft with one clear message-- their number one pick in 2021 was going to have to be a left tackle. Nothing that happened in the 2020 regular season did anything to change that message
they ignored the obvious, and the Bengals come out of the 2021 draft with the same clear message-- their number one pick in 2022 is going to have to be a left tackle. The Riley Reiff/Jonah Williams tandem remind me of the Eric Winston/Andrew Whitworth pairing, except that Jonah ain't no Whit
The hope is that with Ja'Marr Chase, they have their Michael Irvin to go with their Troy Aikman (Joe Burrows) and their Emmitt Smith (Joe Mixon). It's a delicious thought. But I'd have traded down with Detroit and added a third rounder, then likely drafted Sewell in the first and a guard (Wyatt Davis or Quinn Meinerz) with the extra third. In the second round, I'd have picked the other LSU receiver, who's certainly no Michael Irvin
In the fifth, I really really hope that McPherson a good kicker, not just because of the clear need but also because there was a DT, Daviyon Nixon, and we'd have never seen Margus Hunt again.
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1 hour ago, HoosierCat said:
Maybe you should go look at the whole thread.
ah, click the birdie not the arrow-- yes that's better
Overall I like Carman's feet and of course he has that awesome punch. He does look top heavy and might lose balance-- maybe this has been solved by back surgery. it'd be interesting to see if he could handle a short quick tackle like Geno
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45 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:
Really good stuff in this thread:
maybe I'm missing something but don't most OL look pretty great on a play like this?
a friend sent me a clip yesterday where Carman dances with his guy a bit like Whit could, but then Carman suddenly just falls down for no apparent reason. I know, I know-- it's just one play out of thousands. But Whit does not fall down
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19 minutes ago, Stripes said:
I tend to find draft grades to be ridiculous (we know absolutely nothing), so I choose to give it an A+.
given recent history, I generally assume any Bengals draft will wind up with a C- or D+ grade
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I liked the trade-down with New England because I think that this team needs a big turnover. For the same reason, I'd have traded down with Detroit in the first round and pocketed a third rounder. Would have lost out on Chase but wound up with Sewell plus another OL who was immediately ready
1. Penei Sewell
2. Terrence Marshall WR LSU. Big downgrade from Chase
3. Joseph Ossai Edge
3. Wyatt Davis OG, or possibly Jackson Carman would have lasted that long.
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this pick felt a lot like the Drew Sample pick.
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fearless prediction: Steelers (or Ravens) trade up to take OL with the pick before ours
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If Detroit really wants Chase so badly, then the Bengals should trade down two spots and pick up an extra third rounder. I'd be comfortable with the Northwestern offensive lineman if Penel doesn't slide to the 7th pick.
Detroit would likely throw in a decent 2022 pick-- third round?
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Three thoughts:
1.Mikey's had a bunch of coaches, and only one (Marvin) that has won anything at all
2. I was never a huge fan of Marvin, but in all honesty the guy probably belongs in the PF Hall of Fame for winning so many games for such a terrible organization
3. Bengals should have fired Zackie yesterday and replaced him with Marvin
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23 hours ago, HoosierCat said:
You know, maybe it’s a blessing they barely addressed the oline. I mean, look at where we’ve been:
Williams (1) season-ending injury in camp
Jordan (4) meh
Price (1) bust
Rod Taylor (7) who? Oh right, the guy they took before Auden Tate.
Dielman (5) who?
Westerman (5) a mystery wrapped in an enigma that led nowhere
Ogbuehi (1) epic bust
Fisher (2) bust
Bodine (4) make it stop
Hawkinson (5) injured by blowing wind, other people looking in his direction
Reid Fragel (7) not a rock
TJ Johnson (7) oh yeah, I remember him
Kevin Zeitler (2) OH THANK YOU JESUS! A real live offensive lineman! When was that? 2012. Two thousand and twelve. Eight fucking years ago.
This team’s run of bad oline picks is something to behold.
Exactly correct and feel free to add tight ends. There's no secret about why the Bengals have lost big.
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B-. Would have been an A if they'd drafted Josh Jones in third to give them another tool to protect Burrow from suffering serious injury or shellshock this year
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"I actually thought that I was kind of done." said John Jerry.
"Poppycock. You're our opening day starter" replied Mike Brown
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3 hours ago, COB said:
Hart’s cleaning out my gutters right now.
Mike likes 'em handy. 1996 second rounder Marco Battaglia once fixed my cable. He was working for either Verizon or Comcast in NJ a couple of years after he left the NFL
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5 hours ago, TJJackson said:
They should be trying Glenn at ORT right now to make sure it works
Glenn at ORT almost has to be an improvement over Hart
They have several veteran players who can fill (and need lots of practice reps) at OLG while Boling is out - Westerman, Redman, and Hopkins
What they dont have is a reliable ORT
my reading of the tea leaves is that Hart is their guy. I read OL coach Turner's quotes after Hart was re-signed... said that he was phenomenal. I also saw how much signing bonus the Bengals gave to him, and that was just two months ago. Maybe playing next to a top blocking TE like Drew Sample will motivate Bobby Hart to become better at, you know, blocking?
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I saw Lapham's report after round 1. He said nothing about Dillard; he did say that he wasn't sure if Cincy would have picked the LB over Jonah Williams if both had been available at 11.
I agree with him. The LB made more sense given how the draft was set up, but the OT was the bigger need. who knows.
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of course Pittsburgh moved in front of Cincy for a reason. That's why they spent so much. If you're hot for a player, then you like him even more if you take him away from a team that you play twice a year. it's a solid strategy. No need for sour grapes.
Cincy got a good consolation prize, but Pitty's move also made it impossible to repair that bad defense in 2019. Next year.
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huge, huge needs were LB and OL. The way this draft year was set up, the best possible scenario for the Bengals was that the LBer would fall to them in round 1 (because there weren't ANY other LBers of any quality in this draft), and then a trade up to the top of round 2 would net a top OL.
Foiled again by Pittsburgh, so a top LB will have to await another year. But if they couldn't trade up in Rd 2, then perhaps it's good that Pittsburgh cut them because they just had to have an OT.
the biggest thing that comes out of this draft is that Cincy's new defensive coordinator has just a beast of a task in front of him.
Second biggest thing is that the Bengals really believe in Drew Sample. In years past, they would have simply resigned Tyler Kroft and let the position ride for another year. Hopefully, they're right about Sample. I'm pulling for him.
It certainly makes sense that a team with Andy Dalton as QB should have a much better OL, plus a top blocking TE. It certainly makes sense that a team with Andy Dalton as QB should be rich in RBs. And it makes sense that Dalton's backup would be a guy a lot like him so the offense doesn't have to be adjusted if he were to be injured. So I thought that this draft, in general, made a lot of sense. I liked the value of Jordan (Rd 4), Williams (Rd 6) and Brown (Rd 7)
I was surprised that no safety and no WR was selected. Seemed like a good year to find one late. Stanley Morgan just signed, but I'm still waiting on a safety
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I saw the center and the two safeties get cut yesterday and immediately thought two things:
1. Bengals will never ever have a decent center;
2. silly to cut a decent safety possibility when two of your safeties are injured
But no one claimed the kicker? Must have been awful
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Bengals hoping to get a great return on an AJ McCarron trade in 2017
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the first time that I saw Jake Fisher, I was reminded of Chase Coffman.
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40.5 inch vertical, 22 bench presses. Bengals love to draft guys with the high "explosiveness" numbers (these two measurements plus broad jump). One year they took 3 of the top 15 guys overall in the rankings of the combined three indexes: Shawn Williams, Reid Fragel, and Margus Hunt.
I suspect that Corey Coleman was Bengals' first round target for the same reason, and probably also why the metrics-based DePodesta front office in Cleveland grabbed him
I figure that Fejedelem is practice squad all the way, giving us a year or two to teach him the pro game... unless a similar team like the Browns claim him for their active list.
2021 Overall Draft Grade
in Cincinnati Bengals
Posted
haha. Good one.