futurebengal08 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Alright. I'm pretty new to this site, but not new to the Bengals by any means. Something's been bothering me for a while, and that's the play of our tight ends. It started earlier this season, when reggie kelly got a holding call on an 80 yard pass from carson to chris perry. But it didn't end there. Our tight ends have a total of 37 receptions. The rest of the team has 325. I don't know how many total penalties the tight ends have commited, but just watching i can tell that there are a lot, and a lot of important red zone penalties too. And against the Chiefs, Matt Schobel dropped a ball that got my man Kitna an interception on his stats. Schobel's my favorite, mostly because of his long reception against the Browns last year and the thing he has going with his brother Aaron in Buffalo. Now they ARE decent blockers, but how much would it affect our gameplan if we had a big-play tight end like Alge Crumpler or Tony Gonzalez, or even a Heath Miller would be nice. It would add a new dimension to our offense, and I think we should start shopping around for one, or pick one up in the draft. Holla back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Reggie Kelly is an above average blocker...Schobel is a below average receiver for a TE and they say Stewart is a good blocker but I cant tell.The system is designed to spread the line out to protect Palmer and co.I wish they'd get an all purpose TE as well but I dont see it happening unless a guy like Leonard Pope, Vernon Davis or possibly Mercedes Lewis just fall in our laps..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck3y3d Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 BOB will not throw to the TE. I don't even want to have a catching TE, when all he does is become the dump down man. Kelly really good and can even play some FB. He fits the system and that is what our TE has to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontPushMe Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Remember Tony McGee? All we need is a TE that CAN receive and i think he will be used. A good coach builds his system around the players, we dont have any TEs that can consistently make plays in the receiving game, therefore they arent used. I still think getting a good all around TE would make our offense much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurebengal08 Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 BOB will not throw to the TE. I don't even want to have a catching TE, when all he does is become the dump down man. Kelly really good and can even play some FB. He fits the system and that is what our TE has to do.But an all-purpose tight end could improve the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 yes it would... more playmakers the better.. make a defense worry more... like I said if one of the 3 blue chip TE's i mentioned are there for us to draft they may take one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurebengal08 Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Well someone needs to tell Marvin...I'll bring it up next time I talk to him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Alright. I'm pretty new to this site, but not new to the Bengals by any means. Something's been bothering me for a while, and that's the play of our tight ends. It started earlier this season, when reggie kelly got a holding call on an 80 yard pass from carson to chris perry. But it didn't end there. Our tight ends have a total of 37 receptions. The rest of the team has 325. I don't know how many total penalties the tight ends have commited, but just watching i can tell that there are a lot, and a lot of important red zone penalties too. And against the Chiefs, Matt Schobel dropped a ball that got my man Kitna an interception on his stats. Schobel's my favorite, mostly because of his long reception against the Browns last year and the thing he has going with his brother Aaron in Buffalo. Now they ARE decent blockers, but how much would it affect our gameplan if we had a big-play tight end like Alge Crumpler or Tony Gonzalez, or even a Heath Miller would be nice. It would add a new dimension to our offense, and I think we should start shopping around for one, or pick one up in the draft. Holla backYou're preaching to the choir here, it's been an issue for years now. Time to cut bait with oft-injured Schobel, and find a complete TE who's a blocking/receiving threat. I am ok with having Kelly as a back-up/rotation guy certainly. I wish Daniel Graham were available, someone of that ilk would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofLnMU Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Brat doesn't throw to the TE's? Which TE would you WANT to throw to, in all honesty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theSteeler Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Maybe Marvin Lewis will get a clue how to use the tight end in about 12 more years, it took Cowher 14 years to try this unusual tactic and since Lewis is a former Cowher assistant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Maybe Marvin Lewis will get a clue how to use the tight end in about 12 more years, it took Cowher 14 years to try this unusual tactic and since Lewis is a former Cowher assistant...Really? I thought Eric Green and Mark Bruenor were used often enough throughout the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theSteeler Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Maybe Marvin Lewis will get a clue how to use the tight end in about 12 more years, it took Cowher 14 years to try this unusual tactic and since Lewis is a former Cowher assistant...Really? I thought Eric Green and Mark Bruenor were used often enough throughout the years.Green was, and Bruener was good until Bill turned him into a fulltime blocker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 yes it would... more playmakers the better.. make a defense worry more... like I said if one of the 3 blue chip TE's i mentioned are there for us to draft they may take one...Ideally, yeah. A good pass-catching TE would help out a lot in red-zone situations where the Bengals could be better. But they probably need to use the first (and probably first two) picks on defense. We have a lot of guys who can catch, we need some guys who can tackle.And yeah, I know Marvin doesn't draft for need, but he needs to start considering it a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 yes it would... more playmakers the better.. make a defense worry more... like I said if one of the 3 blue chip TE's i mentioned are there for us to draft they may take one...Ideally, yeah. A good pass-catching TE would help out a lot in red-zone situations where the Bengals could be better. But they probably need to use the first (and probably first two) picks on defense. We have a lot of guys who can catch, we need some guys who can tackle.And yeah, I know Marvin doesn't draft for need, but he needs to start considering it a bit.I would hope they draft two TEs this year -- an H-Back/FB type and a blocking/short area receiver type to replace UFAs Schobel and Tony Stewart this offseason. But given the garbage the defense has been a lot this year, I'd be as surprised to see an offensive player taken by the Bengals in the 1st round this year as I was in 2004. Also, the 2nd rd pick ought to be defense.Still, with one of Marcedes Lewis, Vernon Davis, or in all likelihood Leonard Pope still there when the Bengals pick in the 1st, it will have to get some serious consideration.Fortunately, this year's draft looks loaded at TE and quality ones should still be available fairly deep. I was liking TJ Williams but after watching him block in his last two games, I'm liking Dominque Byrd of USC a lot better as a 3rd and still like Va. Tech H-back type Jeff King in the 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yes the draft has depth at TE this year... Wasnt Ronnie Ghent an H-back TE type too? wonder if he's in their future plans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Ok, let me say this one more time for the "we need a TE" Choir....WE ARE NOT GOING TO USE A HIGH DRAFT PICK FOR SOME STUD TE WHO WILL BE COMPLETELY WASTED IN STRIPES.WE DO NOT USE THE TIGHT END AS A WEAPON. WE USE THE TIGHT END AS A BLOCKER.IT IS MORE LIKELY THAT WE QUIT USING A TIGHT END ALL TOGETHER AND PUT IN ANOTHER TACKLE THAN IT IS WE DRAFT A TIGHT END ON DAY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nothing is written in stone as you seem to believe..this may come as a surprise to you but there are actually TE's that can block and catch the ball... is that over your head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I'd agree that adding a better tight end into the mix would prove beneficial to an extent. Perhaps that could improve our numbers on third down and in the red zone somewhat. Still, given our system (assuming Bratkowski stays put), I doubt any tight end would made a big impact as a blocker or receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nothing is written in stone as you seem to believe..this may come as a surprise to you but there are actually TE's that can block and catch the ball... is that over your head?Not at all, but our system doesn't USE A TIGHT END TO CATCH THE BALL. Get a freaking clue. We use our wide receivers to run the ball more than we use tight ends to catch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 maybe its time to tweak the system to include another option for Palmer when the receivers are covered and Rudi is in the game trying to catch dumpoffs with hands of stone...You really havent a clue about how to upgrade a team do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yes the draft has depth at TE this year... Wasnt Ronnie Ghent an H-back TE type too? wonder if he's in their future plans...Ghent would be in the mix I suspect. I believe this would be his second year f practice squad so he'd have to make the roster. If they like him enough, it could lessen their interest in that type of TE.But there will be TEs in the Bengals plans just like every other team in the league -- including Indy and even in the ruins of Mike Martz fantasy land.When you watch Kitna play, the TE becomes more than a dumpoff, so it's not like the playcall doesn't factor it in. No doubt Palmer has something more vertical in mind, which he should given his abilities. But at the very least a TE/H-back who can slide out for the check down or route out to the flats will help keep him clean and keep the chains moving. Add the blocking factors in both for blitz pick up at H-back to free the 3rd down back and at the line to get better downfield blocking on stretch plays (among the other run blocking functions of a TE) and I would highly suspect that the future of the TE position with the Bengals and the entire NFL is fairly secure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richmond_mat Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nothing is written in stone as you seem to believe..this may come as a surprise to you but there are actually TE's that can block and catch the ball... is that over your head?Not at all, but our system doesn't USE A TIGHT END TO CATCH THE BALL. Get a freaking clue. We use our wide receivers to run the ball more than we use tight ends to catch it.I find it baffling that the coordinator doesn't utilize his weapons yet is considered to be doing a fine job This offense will be better without Bratkowski calling the plays. BTW I'd love to have drafted a TE last year. Would this team be better minus Pollack but plus Miller? This year I'd say yes, but I'm hoping Pollack will develop into the player they projected him to be. Miller has gotten there faster with his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 You can't compare a tight end with a linebacker. A tight end needs to know how to block and/or catch the ball. The linebacker has a LOT more to learn. Also, remember that Pollack was converted from defensive end, so this was his first year playing linebacker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 When you watch Kitna play, the TE becomes more than a dumpoff, so it's not like the playcall doesn't factor it in. No doubt Palmer has something more vertical in mind, which he should given his abilities. But at the very least a TE/H-back who can slide out for the check down or route out to the flats will help keep him clean and keep the chains moving. Add the blocking factors in both for blitz pick up at H-back to free the 3rd down back and at the line to get better downfield blocking on stretch plays (among the other run blocking functions of a TE) and I would highly suspect that the future of the TE position with the Bengals and the entire NFL is fairly secure. Whatever plans Brat may have for the position have largely been undone by his inability to evaluate TE talent. Immediately after being hired Brat claimed that the TE was the most important receiving position in his scheme due to the need to "stretch" a defense from sideline to sideline, not vertically. But Brat promptly tanked on the Sean Brewer draft pick, a player he supposedly hand picked after greatly overrating due to the deep speed he offered. Several years later Brat compounds the earlier failure by once again drafting a very mediocre replacement who lacks the physical ability to stretch a defense wide or deep. And again, he overvalued the prospect so much that he argued for trading up to get his man. Now faced with the high probability that the Bengals will have to draft a TE yet again I sincerely hope that Brat's draft day input will be very limited, regardless of what type of TE prospect the Bengals hope to add. To play off of a famous quote, let him cook the meal but don't let him buy the groceries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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