walzav29 Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Is this guy good or not? I hear ok things about him from a stop the run point of view, but he doesn't get any sacks. Plus they suck at stopping the run. Is this guy average or what? What is the consensus among the Bengals staff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGrizzlyBaer Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 i dont know really i mean this guy looks hard core and i think he draws double teams which is why we need some big guy to get the focus off of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 i dont know really i mean this guy looks hard core and i think he draws double teams which is why we need some big guy to get the focus off of him Justin has greatly improved since his first year here. He is pretty damn good against the run now and that was his biggest problem. If the Bengals could just cover people he would have had at least 8 more sacks(and I'm being conservative) He also sees a lot of double teams cause he's the best player on the line, a heavy duty DT or DE would greatly increase his numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Dead on, kev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Justin has greatly improved since his first year here. He is pretty damn good against the run now and that was his biggest problem. If the Bengals could just cover people he would have had at least 8 more sacks(and I'm being conservative) He also sees a lot of double teams cause he's the best player on the line, a heavy duty DT or DE would greatly increase his numbersCompletely agree. However, my one complaint on his rush stopping is that he still doesn't shed off blocks enough to be considered good; he's just average right now. The great ones shed off their blocks or at least push his blocker back into the running and cutback lanes. Overall I love the guy, heck I met him at a bar once, but he still has a lot to prove before I can consider the number one pick title on his name a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilla Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 I agree that he needs some help from a DT. Take the double teams away. Every down that ive seen from PBS, hes either getting held or doubled. He works hard on every down. The best is yet to come from Justin Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 The one real knock on Justin Smith when he was drafted was his short arms. He has very short arms for a defensive end, let alone for a guy that is 6-4. He spent this year trying to bull rush offensive tackles instead of swimming and using rip moves. True he will get more sacks when he has a big defensive tackle next to him that will eat up double teams. But another End on the other side would prevent teams from "max-protecting" on his side where he wouldn't have to beat a tackle and a running back or tight end as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 The one thing that no one has mentioned, is that while it is true that he has a hard time shedding blocks, he never gives up on the play. In the game against the Ravens, I watched him run Boller and Lewis down after finally getting loose, and drop them for losses. Neither of those guys are slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibor75 Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 So far he's a bust. I'm sorry, you don't draft people 4th for them to be "pretty good". He needs to be pro bowl caliber. Until then, this stiff is just a waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 If you want a solution to the defensive end problem it's simple.. find a way to move up to get that Udeze kid from U.S.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 If you want a solution to the defensive end problem it's simple.. find a way to move up to get that Udeze kid from U.S.C. I'd like to see quite a few other USC alumni to go along with Carson. They were damn impressive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGrizzlyBaer Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 yeah usc alums have been good here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Justin Smith was ranked by sportsline as the 22nd-best defensive lineman (including DEs and DTs) in the league, which is no small accomplishment for a 3rd year player who missed a good chunk of his first year and changed defensive coaches and systems between his second and third years. And who, as has been poiinted out already, is the only top-tier guy on the line and thus the focus of constant double-teams.Let's take a look at this year's top 5 DEs, as ranked by sportsline, and how they did in their first three years vs. how Smith has done so far:Michael Strahan: 74 tackles, 6 turnovers (fumbles + INTs), 13 sacksSimeon Rice: 108 T, 4 TOs, 27.5 sacksAdewale Ogunleye: 76 T, 5 TOs, 25 sacksJayson Taylor: 93 T, 6 TOs, 16.5 sacksAlex Brown (2nd year player): 79 , 4 TOs, 8 sacksJustin Smith: 129 T, 5 TOs, 20 sacksSmith appears to be developing nicely. Give opposing offenses someone else to worry about on the d-line and he'll start taking QBs' heads off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Justin Smith was ranked by sportsline as the 22nd-best defensive lineman (including DEs and DTs) in the league, which is no small accomplishment for a 3rd year player who missed a good chunk of his first year and changed defensive coaches and systems between his second and third years. And who, as has been poiinted out already, is the only top-tier guy on the line and thus the focus of constant double-teams.Let's take a look at this year's top 5 DEs, as ranked by sportsline, and how they did in their first three years vs. how Smith has done so far:Michael Strahan: 74 tackles, 6 turnovers (fumbles + INTs), 13 sacksSimeon Rice: 108 T, 4 TOs, 27.5 sacksAdewale Ogunleye: 76 T, 5 TOs, 25 sacksJayson Taylor: 93 T, 6 TOs, 16.5 sacksAlex Brown (2nd year player): 79 , 4 TOs, 8 sacksJustin Smith: 129 T, 5 TOs, 20 sacksSmith appears to be developing nicely. Give opposing offenses someone else to worry about on the d-line and he'll start taking QBs' heads off. Nothing like a shot of cold hard facts to stop an arguement huh ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Joisey, How the hell do you have such data at your fingertips? You must be into the fantasy football. I tried to get into it, but with all my sexual fantasies, there just wasn't enough room in "Fantasyville" for them to co-exsist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 So far he's a bust. I'm sorry, you don't draft people 4th for them to be "pretty good". He needs to be pro bowl caliber. Until then, this stiff is just a waste of money. Very wrong. He is far from a bust. If the Bengals didn't have him on the line the defense would have been even worse. If you look at the top DE's by stats you'll notice that they play on pretty good lines...He has the potential the be a total monster on that Dline if someone else would help pull the double teams that he constantly get's...The team needs bookend DE's and you'd see his numbers take off...Throw in one more DTand whammo...Instant brick wall with Smith being the cornerstone. And when I say upgrade of DE and Dt, I'm not saying some superstars, just a few players of higher caliber than what's there now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 I'm thinking Kev is on to something here. The Bengals defensive line was easily thwarted by the selective double teaming. Someone with the equal ability playing along side would have to change the complection of the current defense. Two guys would be awesome. I honestly think we should trade Clemons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGrizzlyBaer Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 thats why mabye will smith or udeze is the way to go in the draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalFanInNJ Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 He's becoming a bust, he's not a bust yet. He needs to develop another move. He is extremely quick off the ball and gets up field, the problem is a good tackle can counter his one move easily. He did improve against the run, but we need some sacks from him. Maybe another decent corner who can actually COVER will help in giving him and other lineman more sacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 redsfan: yup.billy: I take no credit; sportsline did all the work. But since I had the same debate on another board last offseason, I thought I'd take a peek and see if the stats had shifted against Smith. They haven't.Fellow NJ fan: waddya want? Not every top pick is going to become an instant Pro Bowler (like tibor wants). Thank [insert deity of choice here] he's at least contributing. No doubt he can get better, and he could use some talent around him (note that he is currently the only defensive line starter that the Bengals actually drafted!). The one area I did see this year where he could improve is finishing sacks; he seems to get his hands on the QB a lot but doesn't bring him down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam31 Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 I like Justin Smith solely because he has the best "sack dance" in the league.I just love the hammering the nails in the coffin routine.As an outsider, Id say he is by far your best defensive lineman. As a Ravens fan, Id compare him to Rob Burnett, very solid player versus run or pass and is definitely capable of 10-11 sack seasons.Like others have said, more players on the d-line around him and he gets that much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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