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kodak

Why do fans get so optimistic about Bengals every yr?

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Sometimes teams perform better than projected regardless of apparent history. All we know as fans is that Marvin has been the head coach for 11 years. Are you in on the game planning process, kodak? Are you in his ear during games? Do players talk to you personally?

I frankly don't think he does ANYTHING in-game, save perhaps for call timeouts too liberally, that contributes to playoff losses. Does he make mistakes before games during preparation? Maybe. I don't f***ing know. And I never will unless I join the staff.

So, without better evidence than "we lost the last few times", I don't think it's at all unreasonable for people to see a talented roster with 3 straight playoff berths and project a big year.

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Sometimes teams perform better than projected regardless of apparent history. All we know as fans is that Marvin has been the head coach for 11 years. Are you in on the game planning process, kodak? Are you in his ear during games? Do players talk to you personally?

I frankly don't think he does ANYTHING in-game, save perhaps for call timeouts too liberally, that contributes to playoff losses. Does he make mistakes before games during preparation? Maybe. I don't f***ing know. And I never will unless I join the staff.

So, without better evidence than "we lost the last few times", I don't think it's at all unreasonable for people to see a talented roster with 3 straight playoff berths and project a big year.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect anything more than mediocrity froma Lewis team. He's proven he doesn't have what it takes to get a team to the top. I want the Bengals to win. I don't care I'd they go to the playoffs twenty straight years if they don't win it all. I guess that come from being form the south side of the stream. We want championships. It appears we will almost certainly get one this yr. Go Big Blue!

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Sometimes teams perform better than projected regardless of apparent history. All we know as fans is that Marvin has been the head coach for 11 years. Are you in on the game planning process, kodak? Are you in his ear during games? Do players talk to you personally?

I frankly don't think he does ANYTHING in-game, save perhaps for call timeouts too liberally, that contributes to playoff losses. Does he make mistakes before games during preparation? Maybe. I don't f***ing know. And I never will unless I join the staff.

So, without better evidence than "we lost the last few times", I don't think it's at all unreasonable for people to see a talented roster with 3 straight playoff berths and project a big year.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect anything more than mediocrity froma Lewis team. He's proven he doesn't have what it takes to get a team to the top. I want the Bengals to win. I don't care I'd they go to the playoffs twenty straight years if they don't win it all. I guess that come from being form the south side of the stream. We want championships. It appears we will almost certainly get one this yr. Go Big Blue!

I don't want mediocrity either. I don't think the terrible '90s Bengals are a good reason to accept mediocrity now. On those points, we agree.

Where we split is on how much we believe we know about this franchise. I assert that we know nothing more than we see on our TV screens or from our seats in the stands -- that in recent years, the Bengals have performed well more often than not in the regular season and then performed poorly in the postseason. The cause of that disparity in performance is not so clear cut as you say it is, I think. It might be Marvin's fault, but I don't think we really have any viable, logical way to affirm that assumption. It's just a barely-educated guess. There are numerous other places to direct potential blame.

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I should also clarify that I don't think any Andy Dalton era Bengals teams have been "mediocre". They've all been above average even considering the bad playoff games. I definitely want more than a wild card round loss. You should have seen my dejection on this board after the Chargers game. That doesn't mean it is inherently sensible to anticipate another first round loss this season. Or a playoff win. Or any other result. The NFL hasn't been that predictable at any point in my time watching it.

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I should also clarify that I don't think any Andy Dalton era Bengals teams have been "mediocre". They've all been above average even considering the bad playoff games. I definitely want more than a wild card round loss. You should have seen my dejection on this board after the Chargers game. That doesn't mean it is inherently sensible to anticipate another first round loss this season. Or a playoff win. Or any other result. The NFL hasn't been that predictable at any point in my time watching it.

I didn't expect them to win against the Chargers. Lewis wins a lot of reg season games by backing into it. He plays prevent offense after getting a lead. His personality comes through in the play of his teams. Whenever the show him on the sidelines he has that stupid look on his face and claps. I'm sick of his approach to coaching. I want a guy that inspires. I've seen plenty over a decade to know he doesn't get the job done. You're assuming the teams that you call above would be avg under another coach. How do you know they wouldn't be great?

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I should also clarify that I don't think any Andy Dalton era Bengals teams have been "mediocre". They've all been above average even considering the bad playoff games. I definitely want more than a wild card round loss. You should have seen my dejection on this board after the Chargers game. That doesn't mean it is inherently sensible to anticipate another first round loss this season. Or a playoff win. Or any other result. The NFL hasn't been that predictable at any point in my time watching it.

I didn't expect them to win against the Chargers. Lewis wins a lot of reg season games by backing into it. He plays prevent offense after getting a lead*. His personality comes through in the play of his teams. Whenever the show him on the sidelines he has that stupid look on his face and claps**. I'm sick of his approach to coaching. I want a guy that inspires***. I've seen plenty over a decade to know he doesn't get the job done. You're assuming the teams that you call above would be avg under another coach. How do you know they wouldn't be great****?

Asterisks indicate individual responses to points made:

* I don't think that's actually true. It may seem that way because conservative offensive playcalls have been made with the lead under his watch and they frustrated you, but I have seen aggressive playcalls with the lead too. I don't think the Bengals are abnormal in this regard.

** I don't think this has any bearing on anything. Why is it a problem that Marvin is sometimes seen clapping when the camera finds him? What look would you prefer he adopt? What impact would this different facial expression have on the football games?

*** He may not inspire you, but are you relevant? What matters is whether he can inspire the players -- who typically stand behind him when he is criticized every offseason. I am not exposed to locker room activity frequently enough though to really know anything about this.

**** I'm not assuming that. I have no idea how those teams would have performed under another coach. Maybe they'd have been great. Or above average. Or terrible. Who knows? I don't even mean to defend Marvin here -- I am raising questions about what I perceive to be emotion fan reactions.

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Why do "fans" get so optimistic ??

Is that a trick question ??

God knows it would be much easier to simply not bother rooting for a team to do well that has more talent than most Bengal teams in the history of the franchise right ?? Is that what we as "fans" should do ?? It's not going to work, so why bother ?? However, that would beg the question of why would someone come to a message board to discuss a team there is no reason to be optimistic about ??

I'm saying this because we have seen over and over that Lewis doesn't get the job done. Thank you for your service to the greatest country ever.

It sounds like your issue surrounds Marvin more than the team itself.

You aren't alone in thinking Marvin has concerns as a head coach, but I think you will find this board isn't about the negative argument as much as it is the dicussion.

In regards to Marvin, there really isn't much to discuss. He's beloved by Mike Brown. Until he isn't, he's here to stay.

Would I like to see the Bengals win the Super Bowl ?? Of course. Am I privy to how much that rests on the shoulders of Marvin ?? Not at all.

All i'm capable of doing is looking at the situation and casting judgement that isn't based on much fact, if at all.

I can point to what I "think" I see, what I "think" he does or doesn't do during the game, or what I "think" ought to happen.

Put all that together and it means I don't have a f*cking clue about what actually happens.

I do know the players are the ones actually out on the field needing to execute plays.

I still say that if there is no reason for a "fan" to be optimistic, there's no reason to bother coming to a message board until that fan feels there is sufficient reason to be optimistic. If there is nothing to root for, than it's just bitching for the sake of it.

Bitching for the sake of it is something I find happens with great frequency on the Bengals.com board and why I don't post there.

Go Bengals ?!?!

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I should also clarify that I don't think any Andy Dalton era Bengals teams have been "mediocre". They've all been above average even considering the bad playoff games. I definitely want more than a wild card round loss. You should have seen my dejection on this board after the Chargers game. That doesn't mean it is inherently sensible to anticipate another first round loss this season. Or a playoff win. Or any other result. The NFL hasn't been that predictable at any point in my time watching it.

I didn't expect them to win against the Chargers. Lewis wins a lot of reg season games by backing into it. He plays prevent offense after getting a lead. His personality comes through in the play of his teams. Whenever the show him on the sidelines he has that stupid look on his face and claps. I'm sick of his approach to coaching. I want a guy that inspires. I've seen plenty over a decade to know he doesn't get the job done. You're assuming the teams that you call above would be avg under another coach. How do you know they wouldn't be great?

Take comfort - somewhere, there's a parallel universe where the Bengals are undefeated since 1969 and the rest of the teams in the league have simply stopped trying because they know they can never win if they're not the Bengals. And kodak is the happiest man in that universe.

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Why are you guys feeding the Troll? Stop responding and they go back under their bridge.

What makes a person a troll for realizing a fatal flaw in a team? Keep running Lewis out there yr after yr with the same results. The number of losss fluctuate a bit, but the same issues exist. A coaching staff that fails to be prepared for big games, in game adjustments lacking, and general complacency. I'm not a fan because I want them to win it all?

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think. Than you for your service!

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

This is getting almost as bad as the Dalton haters were during the off-season. There are multiple reasons the Bengals have not won a play-off game recently. Lewis can be pointed to as one reason, but is in no way the whole problem.

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All of us want Bengals to do more than just make playoffs, But seems you havent realize what most of us realize long time ago like me,

As a fan, there is nothing we can do but to cheer for team. Whine will get you nowhere but people tired of you. are you owner of Bengals? if answer is no, then you cant do anything about Marvin Lewis. he is our coach no matter what until Mike Brown say so.

I will cheer for Bengals every sunday no matter what, right now my expectation is 15-1 and superbowl win, of course if bengals lost this sunday, my expectation will be 14-2 and superbowl win. impossible for me to expect anything less, several years ago when bengals was 2-11 with 3 games to go, most fans want Bengals to lost last 3 games and have better draft picks, I didnt, I still expect Bengals to be 5-11 and i cheer for them every sunday and they did win 2 out of 3 games.

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

This is getting almost as bad as the Dalton haters were during the off-season. There are multiple reasons the Bengals have not won a play-off game recently. Lewis can be pointed to as one reason, but is in no way the whole problem.

He's a problem. So get rid of him! He gets extensions time after time because Brown doesn't have pressure on him to make a change. The low expectations of fanbase allows this inaction. He's still making money because Mediocre Marv is doing more than the last coach, but Marv is doing it with better talent.

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Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

Nope. That's all I want. I like mediocre, which is why I like Sizzler, Luminas and the color beige.

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

This is getting almost as bad as the Dalton haters were during the off-season. There are multiple reasons the Bengals have not won a play-off game recently. Lewis can be pointed to as one reason, but is in no way the whole problem.

He's a problem. So get rid of him! He gets extensions time after time because Brown doesn't have pressure on him to make a change. The low expectations of fanbase allows this inaction. He's still making money because Mediocre Marv is doing more than the last coach, but Marv is doing it with better talent.

Name one example where pressure has ever made mike brown do something he didn't want to do?

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

This is getting almost as bad as the Dalton haters were during the off-season. There are multiple reasons the Bengals have not won a play-off game recently. Lewis can be pointed to as one reason, but is in no way the whole problem.

He's a problem. So get rid of him! He gets extensions time after time because Brown doesn't have pressure on him to make a change. The low expectations of fanbase allows this inaction. He's still making money because Mediocre Marv is doing more than the last coach, but Marv is doing it with better talent.

Name one example where pressure has ever made mike brown do something he didn't want to do?

Got me there. Bengals will always be a mediocre to above avg team.

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

Lets see, i'm a Bengals fan who has moderated a Bengals forum message board for over 10 years.

I was at the freezer bowl at 10 years old and went to Super Bowl XVI.

I go to more than my fair share of games and am taking my son on a trip to Houston to watch the Bengals / Texans game this year.

Yeah, i'm hoping they have a losing season and miss the playoffs entirely. PLAYOFFS ?!?!

And they say there is no such thing as a dumb question.

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

Lets see, i'm a Bengals fan who has moderated a Bengals forum message board for over 10 years.

I was at the freezer bowl at 10 years old and went to Super Bowl XVI.

I go to more than my fair share of games and am taking my son on a trip to Houston to watch the Bengals / Texans game this year.

Yeah, i'm hoping they have a losing season and miss the playoffs entirely. PLAYOFFS ?!?!

And they say there is no such thing as a dumb question.

That doesn't make sense. I asked if fans were happy with just making playoffs. Nothing was said about wanting a losing season. Where did you see that?

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

Lets see, i'm a Bengals fan who has moderated a Bengals forum message board for over 10 years.

I was at the freezer bowl at 10 years old and went to Super Bowl XVI.

I go to more than my fair share of games and am taking my son on a trip to Houston to watch the Bengals / Texans game this year.

Yeah, i'm hoping they have a losing season and miss the playoffs entirely. PLAYOFFS ?!?!

And they say there is no such thing as a dumb question.

That doesn't make sense. I asked if fans were happy with just making playoffs. Nothing was said about wanting a losing season. Where did you see that?

You asked me if I want to the Bengals to do more than make the playoffs. Right ??

That's a stupid question.

It's like asking if you want your wife to be faithful.

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It's trollish to come onto a board with an agenda and fill varied topics with the same line.

I'm not saying you are a troll, but of your 16 posts in 3 or 4 different threads, it's all been about how they can't win with Marvin.

Whit speaks his mind = Marvin

Burfict = Marvin

Patriots = Marvin

Why be optimistic = Marvin

There's a trend there and it gets old. That's stuff people do on the official site and isn't welcomed here.

I'm not saying you aren't a fan or welcomed here, but you won't get positive responses in doing that.

I don't really care if it's popular sentiment. It's what I think.

I don't really care if it's what you think. It's the constant on and on.

We get it, you don't like Marvin.

I can't believe the Bengals don't have a practice bubble.

However, you know what you don't see ?? Me going on and on how every negative thing that happens with the team has to do with the lack of a bubble.

I could certainly push that agenda, but people don't want to hear that crap.

My point ?? Have something else to say, because if that's all you have to offer, it's not worth your time to offer it here.

Do you want the Bengals to do more than make playoffs? Simple question.

Lets see, i'm a Bengals fan who has moderated a Bengals forum message board for over 10 years.

I was at the freezer bowl at 10 years old and went to Super Bowl XVI.

I go to more than my fair share of games and am taking my son on a trip to Houston to watch the Bengals / Texans game this year.

Yeah, i'm hoping they have a losing season and miss the playoffs entirely. PLAYOFFS ?!?!

And they say there is no such thing as a dumb question.

That doesn't make sense. I asked if fans were happy with just making playoffs. Nothing was said about wanting a losing season. Where did you see that?

You asked me if I want to the Bengals to do more than make the playoffs. Right ??

That's a stupid question.

It's like asking if you want your wife to be faithful.

I guess that would depend on the wife.....

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