Chad Johnson Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 with some signings of Webster and Herring and resigning the kicker and cutting OG and Hawkins and losing Goff (not sure if Goffs thing affects our cap) where are we at about right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 I think we could sign 1 or 2 more players....but their cap numbers will have to be higher signing bonuses and small salaries...Kitna has sent in his proposal to restucture his contract and lengthen it... which means it'll probably be for about 4 years with cap hits in the 2 million dollar range a year... should save us about 1.5-2 million this year instead of his 4 + million hit this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Johnson Posted March 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Thanx man. Also I am assuming that this is current and not with Kitna's restructure. Man 1-2 that stinks! Bober and Vincent is all we will get! I hopeEDIT: Richy is staying or so i just saw. That williams guy looks like a good replacemnt for Goff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenbergMan Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 From what I saw in the Playoffs Bobbie Williams in a poor Guard. He was one of the reasons why McNabb kept getting killed. Do you want that to happen to Carson?I've also heard from Eagles fans that he is a weak link in pass protection. With Rich not being the best pass blocker i think we need someone better to make up for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 I think we could sign 1 or 2 more players....but their cap numbers will have to be higher signing bonuses and small salaries...Kitna has sent in his proposal to restucture his contract and lengthen it... which means it'll probably be for about 4 years with cap hits in the 2 million dollar range a year... should save us about 1.5-2 million this year instead of his 4 + million hit this year...I don't like saying this, but I think Kitna is gone. From what I'm seeing in the articles on the matter, he's sent his proposal to the team and they aren't real interested. Meanwhile, Kitna says he's a west coast type of guy, and would be interested in the chargers. Chargers are intersted in Kitna but waiting for the Bengals to make the first move. Katie et. al. are most likely working several scenarios to see what happens if we sign player x and cut player y while trading player z ( Kitna ) and his contract. I'd hate to see him go, but I'd hate worse to see Palemre getting blindsided or the opposing qb torching our secondary because the money we needed to sign a couple more players is standing on the sideline holding a clipboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsNYC Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Redsfan,You bring up a great point, what is the price for a mentor and teacher? Where do we draw the line saying this as far as we are willing to go? I like your points you made but I really do want Jon back but then you have to ask yourself, at what price? Kitna's proposal significantly decreases his cap hit this year by 1.5-2.0 mill, is what I had heard. I think the Bengals are remaining tight lipped about this and not hinting about which way they are leaning. We have really focused in on signing Troy Vincent and to some degree another O Lineman. I think that situation will be resolved before we hear anything about Kitna and his possible extension with the team. But as Redsfan said earlier, do we sacrafice on the field production and protection for a mentor/backup? Buffalo has also been courting Vincent but I think we may have the inside track here with Leslie Frazier, the Philly import being our D Coordinator. I am hoping for an announcement very soon and am hoping he opts for the orange and black. On a totally unrelated topic and I am not endorsing such a move but what is going on with Marecellus Wiley? He was a cap casualty of the Chargers and I have heard NOTHING about this guy making any visits to anyone. That guy is a very good player and would be a big upgrade for any team, although he has quite a large contract if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Yea, RedsFan always makes great points. I don't like saying this, but I think Kitna is gone. From what I'm seeing in the articles on the matter, he's sent his proposal to the team and they aren't real interested. Meanwhile, Kitna says he's a west coast type of guy, and would be interested in the chargers. Chargers are intersted in Kitna but waiting for the Bengals to make the first move.I really don't think he'll go to the Chargers unless they don't draft a QB. Since they signed Flutie to a three year deal, Kitna would be most likely be a third stringer there. I really don't see a starters spot right now for him because teams already have their starters set to play next season. I really believe he'll be a backup if he goes somewhere else, and if that's the case, I really think SF or Atlanta would be an option IF he left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Yea, RedsFan always makes great points. I don't like saying this, but I think Kitna is gone. From what I'm seeing in the articles on the matter, he's sent his proposal to the team and they aren't real interested. Meanwhile, Kitna says he's a west coast type of guy, and would be interested in the chargers. Chargers are intersted in Kitna but waiting for the Bengals to make the first move.I really don't think he'll go to the Chargers unless they don't draft a QB. Since they signed Flutie to a three year deal, Kitna would be most likely be a third stringer there. I really don't see a starters spot right now for him because teams already have their starters set to play next season. I really believe he'll be a backup if he goes somewhere else, and if that's the case, I really think SF or Atlanta would be an option IF he left. I'm sincerely hoping Jon stays. I truly think Marvin realizes the risks involved starting Carson, and he isn't foolish enough to let such a backup, coach and mentor to Palmer go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 If Kitna is gone, so 'beit....!! The coaches are paid to make sure that Palmer is ready ....We can re-sign Mathews to be the backup, which is a role better suited for him anyway.And if Kitna isn't willing to push that money into the future to help the team, then I guess it'll be God that told him not too, and take lesser pay somewhere else.'cause honestly...I don't see anyone else in the NFL paying him more than 2 million a year to backup anyways.,let alone start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 'cause honestly...I don't see anyone else in the NFL paying him more than 2 million a year to backup anyways.,let alone start. Never underestimate the level of ineptitude of some NFL owners out there....I mean I would never have thought that Brunell would get 8 million for signing somewhere, but hey...and let's face it, out of the QB's out there Kitna is the best of the bunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 By far!! We may be lucky to keep him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Ok so what's Kitna worth then..? a Second ..? a Third..? + a conditional pick..??? If we could get somebody desperate like San Diego or Oakland to give up a second and a conditional pick... I would jump all over that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Ok so what's Kitna worth then..? a Second ..? a Third..? + a conditional pick..??? If we could get somebody desperate like San Diego or Oakland to give up a second and a conditional pick... I would jump all over that... A second AT LEAST!! I do believe as the draft approaches we'll see action on both Jon and Corey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Ok so what's Kitna worth then..? a Second ..? a Third..? + a conditional pick..??? If we could get somebody desperate like San Diego or Oakland to give up a second and a conditional pick... I would jump all over that... Well, unless we get really lucky, I don't see the team actually getting a draft pick from this years draft IF Kitna is traded....I would think it would be more likely a 3rd, and or conditional pick next year....But again, who knows how dumb some owners are, or how desprate they could become if they lose a starting QB to injury..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenbengal14 Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 i think we should trade kitna. i give him prps for what he did this year but we need money and we need to get a corner and maybe or hopefully get rhuban brown . by the way im a newcomer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 . by the way im a newcomer So you are, but welcome aboard!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Ok so what's Kitna worth then..? a Second ..? a Third..? + a conditional pick..??? If we could get somebody desperate like San Diego or Oakland to give up a second and a conditional pick... I would jump all over that... Got to agree again. I like Kitna as much as anybody on the board, but you give us a 2nd round pick and lose his salary against the cap, and he goes out the door in whatever he's wearing. I'll mail his clothes to his new address. A lot of what is being said here about keeping Kitna is emotionally based, and we're not in a position where we can let feelings get in the way. He did a lot for the team no doubt, but easing the cap situation and garnering us an extra pick would be the best final act of service that he could provide to the team. Marvin Lewis said " don't let anyone or anything get in the way of winning " . I think that's dam sound advice, and it defintiely applies here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Marvin Lewis said " don't let anyone or anything get in the way of winning " . I think that's dam sound advice, and it defintiely applies here. Marvin said those words!?! I knew there was something I liked about that guy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 I think we have to keep Kitna for this season more for support with Carson. Kitna is the unspoken leader in the locker room and I know we could get something in return for him in terms of picks, etc. But I think the investment will far out reward itself if Kitna sits on the sidelines, helps our young QB both mentally and strategically during games. Also, if Palmer goes down, I will feel much better knowing Kitna is there waiting to perform in a system he knows so well. Matthews couldn't provide any of the above.In summation, I think Kitna on the Bengals is well worth the risk of giving up a pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 I think we have to keep Kitna for this season more for support with Carson. Kitna is the unspoken leader in the locker room and I know we could get something in return for him in terms of picks, etc.This goes to what I was saying about the emotional aspect of this situation. You'e interchanging have to with want to, and they aren't the same thing. I'll say again. I'd like to keep Kitna. But I can't honestly say that I think we need to keep him. Put Kit on one side of the scale, and cap relief along with an extra pick on the other and see which way it tilts. In this instance, it's better for the team if he leaves.Also to be considered. Is it a good idea to have the leader of the team on the sideline as opposed to under center ??? Remove the current leader and you create a void allowing the new leader to surface.Is it fair to keep Kit here if he can go somewhere else and start ?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 I'll say again. I'd like to keep Kitna. But I can't honestly say that I think we need to keep him. Put Kit on one side of the scale, and cap relief along with an extra pick on the other and see which way it tilts. In this instance, it's better for the team if he leaves.I truly believe we need Kitna next season for our future not to fall off the beaten path. Kitna can help guide Palmer through adversity, media and fan aggression (afterall, he's the chosen one), and a sense of calm to not only Palmer, but the team as a whole.Also to be considered. Is it a good idea to have the leader of the team on the sideline as opposed to under center ??? Remove the current leader and you create a void allowing the new leader to surface.Sure why not. Give the leadership role from Kitna to Palmer through the entire 2004 season. Make the transition as smooth as possible. With suggestive turbulence a true possibility, giving Palmer someone to go to that can focus his complete and undying attention is very emotionally supportive for him and help increase his progression.Is it fair to keep Kit here if he can go somewhere else and start ??????Obviously if that were the scenario then I'm all for it, but I can't see who would take him to start. Most, if not all teams, have starters now or a Kitna pick up wouldn't make sense in scenarios like SD or Oakland. I'd like him to get an opportunity somewhere, since I'm in the firm belief that he got jobbed, but that's a discussion already talked about in a previous thread that I'm not going to use here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 The fact is , we're in a position to lose both of the incumbent back-ups.. Shane Mathews, can make more money as a backup than the league minimum Cincy is giving him, and Kitna could very well be on the trading block , if he doesn't come down off of his high horse.To say that keeping Kitna is an emotional response goes beyond words to say the least... He put himself as that pious(appearing) individual, but the second he lost the starting job, OH NOW it's... well I could Start anywhere in this league, especially San Diego, and maybe I shouldn't restructure that best helps this team.... He's a cry baby... If he really had the ability that he hinted to having this past season.. There would have never been a Gus Ferrotte.. ?? Better yet, Mike Holmgren would have never let him leave Seattle !!!If he's not willing to restructure that best helps the team, then I'd rather see him gone than Corey.. At least Dillon could get us a 1000 yards which is more than what a high priced clipboard holder could ...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Speaking of Corey...has anyone heard anything new about Dillon being traded or the Bengals finishing a deal with Rudi?? Perhaps something will happen after free agency is over. Does anyone know when that ends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kchrpm Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Kitna hasn't refused to make a restructuring deal that's better for the team, he's just not going to make one that screws himself over in the process.Look at it this way, you're Jon Kitna, and even though you had a great season last year, the Bengals either want to get rid of you or have you take a major paycut. You're saying you wouldn't be the least bit mad?I'm not surprised he didn't submit a proposed new contract that put him at league minimum or something, and it would have set a bad precedent had he. Is the team more important? Yes, but that doesn't mean that he has no importance. It also gives him a way of pseudo-requesting a trade without saying "I want out" ala Corey. Throw out a number, and either they pay it or they let you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 The fact is , we're in a position to lose both of the incumbent back-ups.. Shane Mathews, can make more money as a backup than the league minimum Cincy is giving him, and Kitna could very well be on the trading block , if he doesn't come down off of his high horse.To say that keeping Kitna is an emotional response goes beyond words to say the least... He put himself as that pious(appearing) individual, but the second he lost the starting job, OH NOW it's... well I could Start anywhere in this league, especially San Diego, and maybe I shouldn't restructure that best helps this team.... He's a cry baby... If he really had the ability that he hinted to having this past season.. There would have never been a Gus Ferrotte.. ?? Better yet, Mike Holmgren would have never let him leave Seattle !!!If he's not willing to restructure that best helps the team, then I'd rather see him gone than Corey.. At least Dillon could get us a 1000 yards which is more than what a high priced clipboard holder could ...! Kitna has said to anyone that would listen that he could start anywhere that was before he lost the job....He did nothing last year to lose it....and now that he has had it taken away from him he's said that he'll be number 2 here and hopes like hell he doesn't have to start and is behind Palmer....Just because he thinks he can start and his reocrd last year shows it, and there are scrubs out there starting like Quincy Carter, how the hell do you expect him to feel? He's a competitor and he wants to compete....And he has offered to restructure his deal to stay in Cincinnati on top of it all....As for Gus Ferrotte, please, that's Mikeys MO up and down, always chasing a new QB...Kitna should have kept the job then, that was a farce. Kitna could start for almost any team in the league, and he'd win too....What the hell does the team do if Palmer is hurt in a game? Who do you think the players would rather see in the huddle? Matthews or Kitna? The players love playing for Kitna, and that's worth about as much as throwing a 40 yard spiral..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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