CHAD's incident

[Kirkendall]

Sorry, but I'm starting the Chad debate some more.

There WAS an incident, BUT NO ONE is supporting exactly what happened. One said there was a punch. Another an argument. Another was a push shove and that's it. Another says nothing happened.

My question is WHAT WAS the incident? Why is everyone so quick to criminalize Chad without knowing what happened other than saying "incident"?

Why is ESPN not running the story? Well, because there is no story. There's a lot of he-said speculation and assumptions. They, as well as all of you, do NOT know what the incident is...

[ArmyBengal]

"from what I have heard..."

Exactly, what you have HEARD... When someone, hell, ANYONE wants to come out and say, "Hi, I'm John Q. F*CKNUT and this is what happened", then all this is speculation and not worth the time. Everyone needs to chill and not be so quick to throw stones...

WHODEY !!!

[Kirkendall]

"from what I have heard..."

Exactly, what you have HEARD... When someone, hell, ANYONE wants to come out and say, "Hi, I'm John Q. F*CKNUT and this is what happened", then all this is speculation and not worth the time. Everyone needs to chill and not be so quick to throw stones...

WHODEY !!!

Exactly. I'm just confused why so many "fans" are willing to slam on Chad. And until someone comes out and says exactly what happened. I'll continue to believe the sole person that's come out and spoken about the issue -- Chad. Now if something comes out that did happen, well, we'll discover that Chad lied to us through his teeth. But until then, there's no reason not to believe #85.

People comparing Chad to T.O. really need to get a grip. There's nothing to support that theory OTHER than Chad supporting TO during the season -- i.e. Drew Rosenhaus initated propaganda.

[BengalsOwn]

"from what I have heard..."

Exactly, what you have HEARD... When someone, hell, ANYONE wants to come out and say, "Hi, I'm John Q. F*CKNUT and this is what happened", then all this is speculation and not worth the time. Everyone needs to chill and not be so quick to throw stones...

WHODEY !!!

Something similar to what was reported, trust me. I don't know about the chokehold and punch being thrown, but it was definitely more than a bit of a shouting match, I'm sure those happen all the time...

[membengal]

"from what I have heard..."

Exactly, what you have HEARD... When someone, hell, ANYONE wants to come out and say, "Hi, I'm John Q. F*CKNUT and this is what happened", then all this is speculation and not worth the time. Everyone needs to chill and not be so quick to throw stones...

WHODEY !!!

Something similar to what was reported, trust me. I don't know about the chokehold and punch being thrown, but it was definitely more than a bit of a shouting match, I'm sure those happen all the time...

why trust you? Where you there?

I continue to be with kirk on this, why are so many of you predisposed to trying to turn Johnson into a monster and so willing to believe rumor and the hint of rumor and the worst of the worst of a rumor?

I think Daugherty's article this morning sums up my feelings on Chad very well, who remains one of my favorite players, one of the main reasons this team finally broke the playoff drought, and who still, as he himself acknowledges, has some work to do on the maturity and mental side of his game.

For the rest of you trying to make him out to be evil incarnate, and who insist on acting as if you were standing next to Hue Jackson in the training room, cut it out.

[oldschooler]

Let incident be lesson for Chad

Chad Johnson is wrapped tighter than an Ace bandage on a bullet wound. Emotional? Calming Chad could be a full-time job on Bengals game days. Jon Kitna once told Johnson two things would define No. 85 as a professional: How he handled being injured and how he reacted to being double-teamed and not getting the ball.

The injury part Johnson has down pat. The other still needs work.

We don't know what happened in the Bengals' locker room at halftime Sunday. Probably, we never will, not exactly. Did Johnson tangle with his coaches? Maybe. Probably.

It's against Johnson's nature to get physical with anyone. Especially Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, whom he respects as much as anyone but the grandmother who raised him. But it is decidedly, unquestionably Chad to boil if he feels the ball isn't coming his way enough.

That's not just because he wants the catches. Johnson believes the Bengals are best when he's getting the ball. He wants to win as much as he wants to be great. He has jawed with Kitna and Carson Palmer on the sideline, but only in games when the Bengals were struggling.

An NFL locker room is a mix of egos, attitudes and muscle-flexing. And that's during lunchtime on Wednesdays. Move that to halftime of a playoff game against a division rival. Throw in an injury to your most important player, then try to behave rationally.

Off-camera boil-overs happen much more than anyone realizes. They come to light more often now because of the intense interest in the NFL and the mushrooming number of media outlets covering it. No one would have known about the halftime blowup were it not for a football Web site.

Regardless, all that matters is the potential for any lingering issues between the high-strung star wideout and his teammates. The parallels to Terrell Owens are obvious; also false. Chad Johnson isn't Terrell Owens.

They share the same agent and the same look-at-me glory in the end zone. Johnson might be a preener and a diva - these days, what wide receiver isn't? But unlike his good friend T.O., Johnson is not a me-first team-wrecker. He and his contract will not be a problem next summer, even as Johnson feels underpaid and will be advised to request a renegotiation. Here's why:

It is too important to Johnson to be liked. By everyone - coaches, teammates, fans, media. He doesn't have the personality or the stomach for a public contract battle. He also respects Lewis, and what the coach has achieved here, too much to entangle him in a team-killing contract war.

Johnson didn't call his own press conference Tuesday night just because he wanted to deny what had been written; he already had done that. He called it partly because he wanted everyone to believe he was still a Good Guy.

And he is, basically. But it is time for him to grow up.

Johnson concedes he needs to tame his passion. He also wonders how that might affect the way he plays. Johnson knows there is a line he must walk.

"How do you do that? I don't know. It would almost be like not caring. If you love this game the way I love it, that's why I'm so emotional," Johnson said early Wednesday, in his condominium. "I guess that's something I can work on, (to) channel my energies somewhere else when things aren't going the right way.

"But, you know, other than the Jacksonville game, I was not emotional the entire year."

Johnson had five catches for 52 yards and a touchdown in the Bengals' 23-20 loss to the Jaguars Oct. 9, after which he claimed Palmer didn't look his way enough.

As for his contract, and the notion he might ask to renegotiate his current deal that runs through 2009, Johnson said he's not interested.

"Is there a reason I should ask for more money? I've never said a word about money. Why would it be an issue?" he asked.

"How do you compare Chad Johnson and T.O. personally? You can't. We're not alike at all. Everybody knows that."

This, too, shall pass. What's the saying? "It's not what happens to you. It's what you do about it." Whatever did or did not occur at halftime Sunday, it's up to Johnson to learn from it. Otherwise, we'll be writing this again.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../601120326/1004

[Dirk Funk]

This might have been mentioned and I apologize if it has already been posted.

Do you remember earlier in the year when Marvin sat Rudi? Rudi, the quinessential team player, role model, was late by 5 minutes for a team meeting. His punishment was not playing for the first few drives of the game.

If Chad did what he did he would have been on the bench.

I am going to take a picture of myself with a Boomer BBQ bottle on the end of my D and send it to New York, love Cinti.

[walzav29]

I just don't understand why some of you dummies are in such denial about this. It's not like I want the best receiver in Bengals history to be a distraction, but he is. Just because this story opens up a miserable pandora's box doesn't mean it's not true. I think we're all bummed to how this offseason is starting with our 2 best players messed up. 1 with a knee, and 1 with an attitude. You can sit here and say it didn't happen all you want, but it will be talked about all off-season by the media and any time Chad does anything it will be blown up.

[oldschooler]

I just don't understand why some of you dummies are in such denial about this. It's not like I want the best receiver in Bengals history to be a distraction, but he is. Just because this story opens up a miserable pandora's box doesn't mean it's not true. I think we're all bummed to how this offseason is starting with our 2 best players messed up. 1 with a knee, and 1 with an attitude. You can sit here and say it didn't happen all you want, but it will be talked about all off-season by the media and any time Chad does anything it will be blown up.

You`re making it out to be more than it is and was.

Marvin Lewis sat Rudi Johnson for being late to a team meeting.

He also sat Odell for being late to the hotel once.

Plus he cut Reggie Myles for getting into a fight with

Carl Powell in the locker room.

Do you actually think he wouldn`t sit Chad if things were as

bad as you`re trying to make them out to be ?

I mean seriously ...think about it.

And this is as close to fact as you`re going to hear about the "incident".

From what I`ve read and heard.

Chad Johnson was getting an IV.

Hue Jackson came into the trainers room,

and was talking to CJ about the adjustments

that they were going to make for the 2nd half.

Hue Jackson mentioned something to Chad

about a play where Kitna was going to throw

it to Chad, but Chad was blocking a Steeler because

he thought it was a running play.

From there it gets a little blurry. But from what

I got out of it. There was a heated arguement.

Now that doesn`t equal "Chad was throwing punches"

"Chad had Hue Jackson is a head-lock", " was yelling and screaming

because he he wanted the ball more". Or anything like that.

I`m not sure how feasible it is to even think that Chad was

throwing punches, or trying to get his coach in a head-lock

when he had a fuggin IV in his arm anyway !

Like I have stated before...this was "nothing" that has been

blown WAY out of proportion.

People need to let it die...seriously.

If the Bengals would have won ...all of this WOULD be a complete and total

NON-issue. Don`t make it bigger than it ever deserved to be...

[BengalsOwn]

This might have been mentioned and I apologize if it has already been posted.

Do you remember earlier in the year when Marvin sat Rudi? Rudi, the quinessential team player, role model, was late by 5 minutes for a team meeting. His punishment was not playing for the first few drives of the game.

If Chad did what he did he would have been on the bench.

I am going to take a picture of myself with a Boomer BBQ bottle on the end of my D and send it to New York, love Cinti.

Rudi sat out for one drive, wasn't a big deal.

And it wasn't the last game of our season, where everything hinged on us getting a W.

If I remember right, it was against the Browns?

[Kirkendall]

Do you remember earlier in the year when Marvin sat Rudi? Rudi, the quinessential team player, role model, was late by 5 minutes for a team meeting. His punishment was not playing for the first few drives of the game.

Odell Thurman too... Landon started in his place.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

This might have been mentioned and I apologize if it has already been posted.

Do you remember earlier in the year when Marvin sat Rudi? Rudi, the quinessential team player, role model, was late by 5 minutes for a team meeting. His punishment was not playing for the first few drives of the game.

If Chad did what he did he would have been on the bench.

I am going to take a picture of myself with a Boomer BBQ bottle on the end of my D and send it to New York, love Cinti.

Rudi sat out for one drive, wasn't a big deal.

And it wasn't the last game of our season, where everything hinged on us getting a W.

If I remember right, it was against the Browns?

However, our special teams ACE was given the big boot for getting in a fight with another PLAYER. Do you think Chad would just have played in a hopeless game if he'd fought with a COACH?! NO FREAKING WAY. You let that slide, and you lose the complete respect of your team. You lose your ability to be an authority at all. Marvin wouldn't let it happen.

[Kirkendall]

I just don't understand why some of you dummies are in such denial about this. It's not like I want the best receiver in Bengals history to be a distraction, but he is. Just because this story opens up a miserable pandora's box doesn't mean it's not true. I think we're all bummed to how this offseason is starting with our 2 best players messed up. 1 with a knee, and 1 with an attitude. You can sit here and say it didn't happen all you want, but it will be talked about all off-season by the media and any time Chad does anything it will be blown up.

Who's the dummy? The guy that listens to internet rumors and gets a few words from players that something happened, but no one is willing to admit what happened? That's very one-minded with the predisposition that you're against Chad. That's fine, it's your choice. But YOU have yet to tell ME EXACTLY what happened.. because Lapham, Thornton, Mitchell, Boomer have yet to say what happened. Just that "something happened". If you can convince me of your beliefs, then I'll agree. But no one has yet..

[oldschooler]

This might have been mentioned and I apologize if it has already been posted.

Do you remember earlier in the year when Marvin sat Rudi? Rudi, the quinessential team player, role model, was late by 5 minutes for a team meeting. His punishment was not playing for the first few drives of the game.

If Chad did what he did he would have been on the bench.

I am going to take a picture of myself with a Boomer BBQ bottle on the end of my D and send it to New York, love Cinti.

Rudi sat out for one drive, wasn't a big deal.

And it wasn't the last game of our season, where everything hinged on us getting a W.

If I remember right, it was against the Browns?

It was a big deal because Marvin sat Rudi who never says

or does anything detrimental ...to make a statement.

Own do you really think that Marvin wouldn`t have set Chad to send a message

regardless of WHEN the game was ?

Chad had 6 out of 40 passes thrown his way.

He caught 2 passes in the 1st half and 2 passes in the 2nd half.

The Bengals scored 0 points the 2nd half but Chad had basically

the same output both halves.

[Kirkendall]

Own do you really think that Marvin wouldn`t have set Chad to send a message

regardless of WHEN the game was ?

I don't. I think if Marvin sat him the entire WORLD would ask questions. If anything it was to prevent a massive PR problem. But that assumes that the worst did in fact happen.

[walzav29]

It's not like it matters if us fans give it up or not. The media feeds off of this crap. Your talking NFL 24 hours a day 7 days a week now days.

[BengalsOwn]

This might have been mentioned and I apologize if it has already been posted.

Do you remember earlier in the year when Marvin sat Rudi? Rudi, the quinessential team player, role model, was late by 5 minutes for a team meeting. His punishment was not playing for the first few drives of the game.

If Chad did what he did he would have been on the bench.

I am going to take a picture of myself with a Boomer BBQ bottle on the end of my D and send it to New York, love Cinti.

Rudi sat out for one drive, wasn't a big deal.

And it wasn't the last game of our season, where everything hinged on us getting a W.

If I remember right, it was against the Browns?

However, our special teams ACE was given the big boot for getting in a fight with another PLAYER. Do you think Chad would just have played in a hopeless game if he'd fought with a COACH?! NO FREAKING WAY. You let that slide, and you lose the complete respect of your team. You lose your ability to be an authority at all. Marvin wouldn't let it happen.

A special teams ace?

:rofl:

The same guy who was replaced with Patrick Body, right from the practice squad, and there was no noticeable dropoff?

How can you compare a bum minimum salary minimum impact player to our high $ game changing WR?

Something went down, it wasn't good, players complained about it even after the game, Chad Johson lied to all of us on live TV, and yet he is being defended still.

Ok.

This might have been mentioned and I apologize if it has already been posted.

Do you remember earlier in the year when Marvin sat Rudi? Rudi, the quinessential team player, role model, was late by 5 minutes for a team meeting. His punishment was not playing for the first few drives of the game.

If Chad did what he did he would have been on the bench.

I am going to take a picture of myself with a Boomer BBQ bottle on the end of my D and send it to New York, love Cinti.

Rudi sat out for one drive, wasn't a big deal.

And it wasn't the last game of our season, where everything hinged on us getting a W.

If I remember right, it was against the Browns?

It was a big deal because Marvin sat Rudi who never says

or does anything detrimental ...to make a statement.

Own do you really think that Marvin wouldn`t have set Chad to send a message

regardless of WHEN the game was ?

Chad had 6 out of 40 passes thrown his way.

He caught 2 passes in the 1st half and 2 passes in the 2nd half.

The Bengals scored 0 points the 2nd half but Chad had basically

the same output both halves.

Yes, I beleive so.

In fact, he didn't, so why are you questioning it?

And what kind of message would that send to the other players on the team?

"Sorry guys, I'm going to bench our best player. Yes I know our entire season hinges on this one game, but he disrespected me."

Do you think the other members of the team would be OK with that?

Honestly?

[oldschooler]

This might have been mentioned and I apologize if it has already been posted.

Do you remember earlier in the year when Marvin sat Rudi? Rudi, the quinessential team player, role model, was late by 5 minutes for a team meeting. His punishment was not playing for the first few drives of the game.

If Chad did what he did he would have been on the bench.

I am going to take a picture of myself with a Boomer BBQ bottle on the end of my D and send it to New York, love Cinti.

Rudi sat out for one drive, wasn't a big deal.

And it wasn't the last game of our season, where everything hinged on us getting a W.

If I remember right, it was against the Browns?

It was a big deal because Marvin sat Rudi who never says

or does anything detrimental ...to make a statement.

Own do you really think that Marvin wouldn`t have set Chad to send a message

regardless of WHEN the game was ?

Chad had 6 out of 40 passes thrown his way.

He caught 2 passes in the 1st half and 2 passes in the 2nd half.

The Bengals scored 0 points the 2nd half but Chad had basically

the same output both halves.

Yes, I beleive so.

In fact, he didn't, so why are you questioning it?

And what kind of message would that send to the other players on the team?

"Sorry guys, I'm going to bench our best player. Yes I know our entire season hinges on this one game, but he disrespected me."

Do you think the other members of the team would be OK with that?

Honestly?

I`m not questioning it.

I was questioning YOU.

I`m just saying that with Marvin track record that I think

he wouldn`t have hesitated to sit Chad... regardless of

what other players think. He is going to do what he thinks

is in the best interest of the team... not just for one game.

But for the long haul. He has never came across as someone

that would allow ANY player to be detrimental and get away with it.

By the way some people are acting about players being tired

of Chad`s "act" I`d say that the players would applaud Marvin

if Chad was being as detrimental as some act like he was.

And playing Chad the 2nd half didn`t help the Bengals win.

So how would have sitting him have made a difference

in that regards ?

[skyline]

"Sorry guys, I'm going to bench our best player. Yes I know our entire season hinges on this one game, but he disrespected me."

Do you think the other members of the team would be OK with that?

Honestly?

Yes, honestly. In fact, I think the team would be more upset if Chad WASN'T benched for a physical altercation. That would mean that Chad can get away with things that they can't.

Yes, different players have to be treated differently to some degree, but there's a certain line that's crossed where all players have to get the same treatment. Physical violence towards a coach is one of those lines.

How would YOU feel at work if your co-worker was caught stealing from your boss, for example, and suffered no repercussions? But you know that if you even look at an object on your boss' desk for more than 30 seconds, you'll be fired. I don't care how important the work is that you're doing...you're not going to be happy.

[BengalsOwn]

"Sorry guys, I'm going to bench our best player. Yes I know our entire season hinges on this one game, but he disrespected me."

Do you think the other members of the team would be OK with that?

Honestly?

Yes, honestly. In fact, I think the team would be more upset if Chad WASN'T benched for a physical altercation. That would mean that Chad can get away with things that they can't.

Yes, different players have to be treated differently to some degree, but there's a certain line that's crossed where all players have to get the same treatment. Physical violence towards a coach is one of those lines.

How would YOU feel at work if your co-worker was caught stealing from your boss, for example, and suffered no repercussions? But you know that if you even look at an object on your boss' desk for more than 30 seconds, you'll be fired. I don't care how important the work is that you're doing...you're not going to be happy.

If I have a very good shot at reaching the pinnacle of my career, but needed that co-workers help to get there, I wouldn't give a rats ass.

[skyline]

"Sorry guys, I'm going to bench our best player. Yes I know our entire season hinges on this one game, but he disrespected me."

Do you think the other members of the team would be OK with that?

Honestly?

Yes, honestly. In fact, I think the team would be more upset if Chad WASN'T benched for a physical altercation. That would mean that Chad can get away with things that they can't.

Yes, different players have to be treated differently to some degree, but there's a certain line that's crossed where all players have to get the same treatment. Physical violence towards a coach is one of those lines.

How would YOU feel at work if your co-worker was caught stealing from your boss, for example, and suffered no repercussions? But you know that if you even look at an object on your boss' desk for more than 30 seconds, you'll be fired. I don't care how important the work is that you're doing...you're not going to be happy.

If I have a very good shot at reaching the pinnacle of my career, but needed that co-workers help to get there, I wouldn't give a rats ass.

Maybe not IF you got there. After that pinnacle was NOT reached, however, you'd look back at that and be pretty pissed off, I think.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Yes, I beleive so.

In fact, he didn't, so why are you questioning it?

And what kind of message would that send to the other players on the team?

"Sorry guys, I'm going to bench our best player. Yes I know our entire season hinges on this one game, but he disrespected me."

Do you think the other members of the team would be OK with that?

Honestly?

I think they would be more upset if Marvin let is slide than if he said "Alright punk, you got into a fight with a coach, I'm benching you. I'll decide tomorrow whether you still have a job. Hit the showers, you're done for the day. The fact is, we have enough problems with the injury to Carson Palmer. We will not accept you becoming a problem too."

Being a head coach is a job that requires that you have the respect of the players. Being ANY kind of coach requires it too. A player cannot be allowed to do this if the coach wants players to run routes, do conditioning exercises, etc.

[redsbengalsbucks]

This thread has evolved and now seems to be mimicking a political debate. One side has made its mind up

that CJ is a bad person and lied about the facts. The other side is waiting for the true nature of the incident to be revealed.

I have not paid enough attention to this issue untill today to make any judgement, but it seems to me that if something really awfull happened that Marvin or the Brown family would have taken steps to correct the problem.

I find it hard to believe that after such a glorious return to the winning ways this season that all some people seem to be able to do is complain. Stop and smell the AFCN division trophy that this Bengals team brought to Cinci, for us the fans.

I for one am very proud to be a Bengals fan and have a great respect for Marvin Lewis for the job that he has accomplished in 3 seasons.

On to the draft and Who-Dey next season.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

However, our special teams ACE was given the big boot for getting in a fight with another PLAYER. Do you think Chad would just have played in a hopeless game if he'd fought with a COACH?! NO FREAKING WAY. You let that slide, and you lose the complete respect of your team. You lose your ability to be an authority at all. Marvin wouldn't let it happen.

Are we talking about the human penalty here?

[membengal]

I would think Marvin's comments mean that this debate is at a merciful end, and the group led by walzav needs to think seriously on their need to repeat the yellow journalism from florio's site like it can be taken seriously. Ever.