Offseason Priorities

[Whur CHad At?]

What BENGALTHEM said

[jeffreedrocks]

Dont re-sign Kitna? Backup QB's are backup QB's. You are either going to have vets who have experience at the position or rookies who need to be developed. Personally, I would stick with Kitna. However, Kordell Stewart is in need of a job...wait, I wouldnt want him on any team that I have any respect for....maybe he can go back to Baltimore.

[HoosierCat]

1. Cut Ohalate. Ohalate is soo bad that they seriously should have entertained putting Tab Perry or Patrick Body back there. Ohalate is the worst starting football player in the league.

Ohalete made some plays, blew some plays. Par for the course. He's only here becaue of Madieu's injury, he'll be gone next year. I'm much more annoyed about Simmons blowing his assignment on the 20 yard TD run by Parker.

4. Cut St. Louis (no sense in paying a guy just to long snap and he can't do his specialty when it matters) (Your roster spot is a waste)

Yeah, St. Louis just bought himself some training camp competition. His snaps were not good. But cutting him would be like cutting Graham for missing a FG. He gets another shot in my book.

5. Hate to say it, but consider trading Kitna. He looked undesicive, (make your read and make a good throw). His arm is weak. This offense must have the ability to go deep affectively.

Kit is Kit. You saw all the good and bad tonight. With Palmer a question mark he will stay, I think.

6. Draft a TE (it would be nice to get that TE from Maryland) or convert Kelley Washington.

Draft defense. Period.

[buck3y3d]

Ohalete made some plays, blew some plays. Par for the course. He's only here becaue of Madieu's injury, he'll be gone next year. I'm much more annoyed about Simmons blowing his assignment on the 20 yard TD run by Parker.

It actually wasn't Simmons, sadly it was Odell. However, while he was initially blocked, he was also picked on the play. This is illegal but never called. *(I did not catch this, but Tom Jackson broke it down on primetime).

This is only true if your talking about the screen, otherwise I don't remember the Parker run.

I agree with most of what you guys are saying, but we need a proven QB for at least one more year. Kitna provides that. Carson might be limited next year, but our team should still be solid.

[BENGALTHEM]

Ohalete made some plays, blew some plays. Par for the course. He's only here becaue of Madieu's injury, he'll be gone next year. I'm much more annoyed about Simmons blowing his assignment on the 20 yard TD run by Parker.

No, loosing both Herring and Madieu Williams made Ohalate a 3rd option instead of a 4th or 5th option. Simmons blowing his assignment is not as annoying as Kitna fumbling snaps, dropping the ball while scrambling, throwing int's, missing fg opportunities, Palmer getting hurt, Henry getting hurt, lack of running the ball, Kitna acting like Kevin Walter is a #1 instead of a #4 or 5#

Yeah, St. Louis just bought himself some training camp competition. His snaps were not good. But cutting him would be like cutting Graham for missing a FG. He gets another shot in my book.

FG kicking and long snapping are two different things. There has to be someone on the team that can long snap. We don't need to waste a roster spot on a pure long snapper. This guy adds nothing else to the team. He not a 3rd string TE, and he's not a 5 or 6th string o-lineman.

Kit is Kit. You saw all the good and bad tonight. With Palmer a question mark he will stay, I think.

It's time to move on. You cannot consistently win with Kitna. At some point, you have to make the move. Might as well trade him while you can while his stock is high and a lot of teams are looking for a qbs and go get some help on Defense.

Draft defense. Period.[/quote

I agree, but you always consider drafting the best player available.

That's how decisions like drafting Chris Perry, Chris Henry, and David Pollack get made.

Herring and the o-line will be back.

If Herring comes back, the Bengals are in trouble.

Run wasn't the problem tonight, pass rush was.

No s**t, but stopping the run throughout the season was a problem.

Look for a QB in round 4 or 5.

Depends on what they decide to do with Kitna.

[schweinhart]

Ohalete made some plays, blew some plays. Par for the course. He's only here becaue of Madieu's injury, he'll be gone next year. I'm much more annoyed about Simmons blowing his assignment on the 20 yard TD run by Parker.

It actually wasn't Simmons, sadly it was Odell. However, while he was initially blocked, he was also picked on the play. This is illegal but never called. *(I did not catch this, but Tom Jackson broke it down on primetime).

I was wondering who effed that up because Simmons was blitzing.

On the whole, the defensive effort was there. The Steelers run game was held in check well enough and the intermediate and short passing game was also defensed well, except for the 3rd and goal from the 5 Ward TD where Odell froze on a Big Ben pump fake and K2 trailed behind Ward too far.

What killed the Bengals was the big plays, and unfortunately 2 of these were on K2 who has played reasonably well all year. He bit majorly on a pump fake on the Wilson 50 yarder and also blew playing the ball on the long pass interference call where he was beat by a few yards but the ball was underthrown and all he had to do was turn around. Oh well.

As for the gadgetry Randle-El-to Big Ben-to Cedric Wilson TD, I'd put more fault on Tory James than Ohalete. James read the play and broke in to play the run instead of staying with his man who just happened to be the one who caught the TD. There's no way Ohalete or any other safety could cover that much ground from all the way on the other side of the field where he was in the right position. James should've known to force Big Ben to run for 20 or 30 yards and let the rest of the defense catch up rather than let his man go for a free and clear TD.

Regardless, the top draft priority IMO for the offseason has to be a safety who can switch between strong and free and also play cover corner -- another Madieu basically. That way they're covered at CB and S with 1 player, which was why Michael Huff was so appealing. I say Bing is too slow to fit this bill and since it looks like Huff is gonna go high, I'm thinking Donte Whitner now -- if he declared like it was said he would.

[HoosierCat]

No, loosing both Herring and Madieu Williams made Ohalate a 3rd option instead of a 4th or 5th option. Simmons blowing his assignment is not as annoying as Kitna fumbling snaps, dropping the ball while scrambling, throwing int's, missing fg opportunities, Palmer getting hurt, Henry getting hurt, lack of running the ball, Kitna acting like Kevin Walter is a #1 instead of a #4 or 5#

Ohalete was signed because of the Williams and herring injuries; when you are forced to pick up Browns/Cardinals junk you get what you get. Kit, like I said, is Kit. Look at his history: fumbling snaps and dropping the ball is par for the course. Simmons OTOH is a 1st round pick who let Parker fake him on a block and stroll past him into the flat where he caught a short pass and strolled into the end zone. If that was Odell I apologize but it was ID'd as Simmons during the game and I thought it was him. That's unacceptable from a vet LB.

FG kicking and long snapping are two different things. There has to be someone on the team that can long snap. We don't need to waste a roster spot on a pure long snapper.

Marvin has said we do and I agree. Anyone who remembers out long snapping issues before St. Louis should, too.

No s**t, but stopping the run throughout the season was a problem.

Not after Shaun Smith came in. Now...watch then cut him just lime Langston Moore

[schroomytunes]

Well after watching the Bengals this year, I will say that I am impressed with their offense, but I will admit that their defense is horrible. They cannot stop anyone from driving down the field on them. So they had a lot of turnovers, but those turnovers were created IMO by the bengals offenses ability to be ahead in games to where the other team had to throw 30+ times a game, thus creating INT's. So here is my offseason plan for the BENGALS!

1)players to be cut:

a)Thornton-no pass rush and can't stop the run. salary cap saver too.

Simmons-too slow to react and also a salary cap saver

c) Herring-cant stay healthy

2)re-sign own free agents

a)R.Bauman ufa-resign

B)A.Mitchell ufa-resign

c)J.Johnson rfa-sign to a 2 year ext.

d)J.Kitna ufa-resign to a 2 year deal, created by Carson injury

e)K.Walter rfa resign

f)S.Kooistra rfa resign

g)M.Shoeble ufa resign

-all of these guys can be had for under 5 million total, they are solid backups, but not starter material.

3)trade:

a)Kelley Washington is a rfa this year, and is a solid reciever but is #4 at best on this team. We need to move him to (HOU) (PHL) (GB) or (ATL) those are the teams that need WR's. He should be worth a 4th round pick.

4)Free Agents

-not sure who will be UFA's this year but we need to land at least 2 guys for the defensive side. Also, we need to sign Steinbach and Jones to extentions and restructure Big Willys to let him retire a bengal.

a) I would target a run stuffing DT who is under 28yrs old. (Hovan?)

I would then target a DE/LB who can get pressure on the QB.

5)Draft

1st rd) Michael Huff(SS) Jesse Maholona(DT) Rodrique Wright(DT)or Greg Blue (SS)

2nd rd) Manny Lawson(OLB) or Max Jean Gilles(OG)

3rd rd) DT/SS

4th rd) CB/DT

4th rd)from K.Washington trade. OLB

5th rd) TE

6th rd) DE/DT

7th rd) QB to battle Krenzel

we wont know what to draft until after FA, but we must address these 3 areas in order:

a)run defense

b)pass rush

c)speed on the outside

[Interceptor]

2. Ratliff cannot be the punt returner next year. (He runs slow on punt return, to busy looking for cuts, instead of just going) Maybe we can use a draft pick just for the specialty of a good punt returner. Basically draft the best punt returner in the draft

5. Hate to say it, but consider trading Kitna. He looked undesicive, (make your read and make a good throw). His arm is weak. This offense must have the ability to go deep affectively.

Rolling with Kitna is like rolling dice. You never know what to expect. Either he is on his game, or he is just terrible. Kitna at times, does some bone head mistakes. And as a fan it is just too frustrating to watch. Qb position is the one position where consistency is a must. Consistently bad may be better than consistently 50/50 because at least you know your limitations. Trade him and get good value.

8. Keep the O-line intact

9. Figure out, why is it every year we can't stop the run? (this should be #1)

11. Burn those black unis.

13. What's wrong with drafting a CB with the first pick, move Tory James to FS and Madieu Williams to stong? (Don't laugh, we got to do something because this isn't working)

About #2: Why not make Deltha O'Neal PR?

About #5: The short passing/draw plays were working in the first half and the offense was actually dictating the game, we had control, slowly and methodically marching down the field, every play a step forward; what went wrong was whoever decided to go with the long ball in the 2nd half is the bonehead to blame.

About #8: I wholeheartedly agree! It's one of the best, if not the best, in the league!

About #9: Slow and soft DLs and sloppy tackling technique.

About #11: You mean just burn those black pants.

About #13: Who did you have in mind drafting for CB?

[TecmoFever]

5. Hate to say it, but consider trading Kitna. He looked undesicive, (make your read and make a good throw). His arm is weak. This offense must have the ability to go deep affectively.

Rolling with Kitna is like rolling dice. You never know what to expect. Either he is on his game, or he is just terrible. Kitna at times, does some bone head mistakes. And as a fan it is just too frustrating to watch. Qb position is the one position where consistency is a must. Consistently bad may be better than consistently 50/50 because at least you know your limitations. Trade him and get good value.

I liked most of your points, but this one is bad. You used the word "trade" twice, but Kitna is an unrestricted free agent. Even if Kitna was worth trade value, it wouldn't help us because we don't have the rights to him.

[schweinhart]

Simmons OTOH is a 1st round pick who let Parker fake him on a block and stroll past him into the flat where he caught a short pass and strolled into the end zone. If that was Odell I apologize but it was ID'd as Simmons during the game and I thought it was him. That's unacceptable from a vet LB.

Just so you know Joisey you're not alone on this. On the Sounds of the Game on NFLN they showed Marvin chewing out Simmons pretty good after this play for taking the inside route rather than outside on the blitz that let Parker get out of the backfield untouched. Marvin even told Simmons he did it right all week in practice and barked at him good to "Come on".

But I still gotta wonder who the hell was supposed to cover an RB as fast as Parker with no one else anywhere close. If it was Odell, he got pinned on the inside like a dead butterfly and K2 didn't show up until it was way too late.

In any event, it will be interesting to see if the Bengals try to tackle in 2006 what to do about eventually replacing Simmons. Ratbird Bart Scott is a UFA and I like the idea of him in stripes at weakside. Landon could proly deal with the coverage aspect of the position but between his shoulders and his tendencies to get washed out when he has to take on direct blocks rather than knife and angle, I would think they'll think twice.

[HoosierCat]

Simmons OTOH is a 1st round pick who let Parker fake him on a block and stroll past him into the flat where he caught a short pass and strolled into the end zone. If that was Odell I apologize but it was ID'd as Simmons during the game and I thought it was him. That's unacceptable from a vet LB.

Just so you know Joisey you're not alone on this. On the Sounds of the Game on NFLN they showed Marvin chewing out Simmons pretty good after this play for taking the inside route rather than outside on the blitz that let Parker get out of the backfield untouched. Marvin even told Simmons he did it right all week in practice and barked at him good to "Come on".

But I still gotta wonder who the hell was supposed to cover an RB as fast as Parker with no one else anywhere close. If it was Odell, he got pinned on the inside like a dead butterfly and K2 didn't show up until it was way too late.

In any event, it will be interesting to see if the Bengals try to tackle in 2006 what to do about eventually replacing Simmons. Ratbird Bart Scott is a UFA and I like the idea of him in stripes at weakside. Landon could proly deal with the coverage aspect of the position but between his shoulders and his tendencies to get washed out when he has to take on direct blocks rather than knife and angle, I would think they'll think twice.

Re the play in question, I have since read elsewhere that it looks like Odell was (illegally) picked on the play, preventing him from getting over. If anyone has a tape of the game they could check...if true, boo on the refs.

I think Simmons stays one more year and then they try a young'un there...

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

1. Cut Ohalate. Ohalate is soo bad that they seriously should have entertained putting Tab Perry or Patrick Body back there. Ohalate is the worst starting football player in the league.

Totally agree with you here. Ohalete was a desperation signing when 2 of our 3 safeties were injured.

2. Ratliff cannot be the punt returner next year. (He runs slow on punt return, to busy looking for cuts, instead of just going) Maybe we can use a draft pick just for the specialty of a good punt returner. Basically draft the best punt returner in the draft

In my opinion, dont draft someone when you have someone. Tab Perry should be returning punts.

3. Get SS either through draft or FA (Again, Ohalate is done)

]Having Herring back will help, but I think we should also look at trying to bring in a guy like Will Demps, Lance Shulters, Keion Carpenter, Or Chris Hope. Also drafting another strong safety type even if we sign a free agent is a good plan. Let's face it, we have Madieu and KK who BOTH can play corner and free, so we can sacrifice our 5th CB to have a stronger safety.

4. Cut St. Louis (no sense in paying a guy just to long snap and he can't do his specialty when it matters) (Your roster spot is a waste)

How stupid are you? St. Louis made ONE BAD SNAP in 6 freaking years. It happens. It's not a waste. Despite ONE BAD SNAP in SIX YEARS, he's one of the best long snappers in the league.

5. Hate to say it, but consider trading Kitna. He looked undesicive, (make your read and make a good throw). His arm is weak. This offense must have the ability to go deep affectively.

Rolling with Kitna is like rolling dice. You never know what to expect. Either he is on his game, or he is just terrible. Kitna at times, does some bone head mistakes. And as a fan it is just too frustrating to watch. Qb position is the one position where consistency is a must. Consistently bad may be better than consistently 50/50 because at least you know your limitations. Trade him and get good value.

I don't see another option out there. Lets face it, the free agent QBs this season are complete and total crap. Not only that, but no matter what you do, you are bringing in a guy who will most likely have to start a couple games early on, before he's ready. Better to have a known quantity in Kitna in my opinion.

6. Draft a TE (it would be nice to get that TE from Maryland) or convert Kelley Washington.

Still don't get it? We have enough weapons on offense. We use our tight end to BLOCK. Some flashy tight end is not the answer, because he won't be used. Or, if he IS used, then guys like Jeremi Johnson, who can barely get a catch now, and TJ Alphabet will be used less. What's the point?

7. Don't let Kim Herring near the traing camp. (for some reason Marvin won't let this pipe dream go. Herring is injury prone, time to move on.

Yes, Herring has been injured, but there is a reason Marvin won't let the "pipe dream" go. Herring is a good player. We need him back, even if it's just to mentor a younger safety.

8. Keep the O-line intact

Definately important, however, it may be that a couple of guys, namely Willie and Braham may be ready to retire. We need to get the young guys ready.

9. Figure out, why is it every year we can't stop the run? (this should be #1)

Hrmn could it be the youth at linebacker? Or perhaps the inadequacy on the defensive line? A lack of tackling drills in practice?

10. Definately draft a QB if you don't feel confident about Bramlet or Krenzal. (Stay away from Marcus Vick)

Draft a QB? What for? NOONE you draft, who will be willing to come in knowing that for the next 7 years he's a backup unless an assassin takes out Palmer is going to be better than Kitna. Sad, but true.

11. Burn those black unis.

Sorry, can't change uniforms for a couple more years thank you, please play again soon.

12. Give Weathersby a call.

And what? See if his brain is getting better? See if lighting happened to flash out of the sky hitting him in the chest and giving him heart problems? Find out what other tragedy has invaded his life? GET A CLUE, WEATHERSBY IS COMING NOWHERE NEAR THE NFL.

13. What's wrong with drafting a CB with the first pick, move Tory James to FS and Madieu Williams to stong? (Don't laugh, we got to do something because this isn't working)

Madieu isn't really a strong safety, he's an ideal free safety. Look elsewhere.

[HoosierCat]

Some o-line related thoughts:

Moore v. Guy-check v. Wilkerson v. Braham: who goes? Richie is a solid starter, played well this year, despite his age I think he comes back for one more go-round. Larry Moore is a solid backup C and G, but he's also 30 and coming off a season-ending injury. Do you dump a good young prospect for a guy who likely has just a few years left? Bluto got some PT, even a start at Jax, this year, and looked like, well, what you'd expect from a mid-round rook. Some good, some bad. Wilkerson would have been a first or second round pick without the knee injury, but is a complete unknown after spending the whole year rehabbing.

My gut is that it will come down to Moore v. Wilkerson, with an edge to Wilkerson if they think Keift could play G if called upon. But he's another question mark after spending the whole season on IR, too.

Finally, there's Stacy the Dancing Bear. What up, grizz? He got a lot of PT at RT against KC; I didn't see the game but the lack of immediate condemnation afterwards suggests he did OK. I think the Bengals are close to have to making a call on him. If they are confident of him, great. But if they have doubts about whether he's the successor to Big Willie...well, this year's draft seems to be reasonably well stocked with good DT prospects.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Joisey,

Don't forget Kooistra in the mix. I doubted him preseason, but he got a lot more play than Stacy and you hardly noticed when he went in.

[walshfan]

I like Koos.. versatility and all..

Word is that Bluto is actually kind of nasty when he plays.. good

Our Oline is fine..

Our Dline is ......well you know

[HoosierCat]

Joisey,

Don't forget Kooistra in the mix. I doubted him preseason, but he got a lot more play than Stacy and you hardly noticed when he went in.

Oh, I think Koo's good, as are Willie, Levi, Steinbach and Williams. But throw in Richie and you're at 6 OL and I see them looking to keep 9, maybe 10 max. So at least one, maybe two, of the Moore-Keift-Stacy-Wilkerson-Bluto crowd could have to go. Keift might still be eligible for the PS, which would save a slot.

Just some thoughts. I too think our o-line is in pretty good shape, I just susppect there's an odd man out here come end of training camp.

[derekshank]

Joisey,

Don't forget Kooistra in the mix. I doubted him preseason, but he got a lot more play than Stacy and you hardly noticed when he went in.

Oh, I think Koo's good, as are Willie, Levi, Steinbach and Williams. But throw in Richie and you're at 6 OL and I see them looking to keep 9, maybe 10 max. So at least one, maybe two, of the Moore-Keift-Stacy-Wilkerson-Bluto crowd could have to go. Keift might still be eligible for the PS, which would save a slot.

Just some thoughts. I too think our o-line is in pretty good shape, I just susppect there's an odd man out here come end of training camp.

I didn't feel like going back and reading everything on this thread... so forgive me if this has already been said, but...

While the O-line is very set for next year, it is not set at all for the year after. Management is going to have to make some decisions about whether they want to re-sign these guys very soon, or else draft another guy or two that we can try to get ready... the Stacy Andrews type.

I'd like to see us be able to keep this line together for a long time, and not have to worry about drafting a lineman on the first day for quite a while, because of the obvious needs on defense... but we still probably need to think beyond just next year.