HairOnFire Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Justin has claimed he hit the ball, but I doubt it. Every view I've seen appears to show contact with the elbow...then the body. If the officials ORIGINALLY felt contact with the elbow forced the fumble before the arm moved forward it's a fumble with Carr's action little more than making it appear to be a forward pass. I wouldn't have been upset if the call was reversed after review, but it wasn't. The reasons for that might be explained on Wednesday when the head of officials does his regular interview on the NFL network. They always go over the most controversial calls and I'm almost positive this one will be included. For whatever it might be worth the head official always talks to those who made the call beforehand, and he's not shy about admitting when a call was blown. If they do highlite the play and the head of officials backs up the call that was made I'll consider the matter dead. BTW, it ticks me off when the talking heads claim this call prevented the Texans from winning. Weren't they something like 65 yards away from the endzone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 It's questionable thats for sure but I think justins hand disrupted it before it was going forward because carrs hand was like on top of the ball just going in a forward motion that knocked it in to his linemen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 BTW, it ticks me off when the talking heads claim this call prevented the Texans from winning. Weren't they something like 65 yards away from the endzone?Aye,plus they failed when they got the ball back with 1:10 left and even if they did score 7pts palmer would probbley have 2minutes left with 3 timeouts comeon we would have no problem getting a FG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 palmer would probbley have 2minutes left with 3 timeouts comeon we would have no problem getting a FG That's exactly right. Whether the call went the other way or not, the game would have gone to Cincy in any event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 However, in response to the picture, his arm was in a forward motion at that time, i just watched the replay. He had started his motion prior to this point. The rule for a pass says no where that a conventional grip must be used. To me, this is my opinion, he had definative control when he began his forward motion.Well I have to disagree ...It seems very clear to me that Smith made contact before Carr's arm moved forward, this is best seen in the replay from the second angle.What is not so clear, is just when did Carr lose control of the ball, but the ball does seem to move in his hand as contact is made.The announcers made the following comments ..."The Rules say if his hand is empty when it comes forward it is a fumble." "His hand was still on the ball when it started forward...not empty."While that may very well be a "rule of thumb" for announcers, and it is certainly true that if the hard is empty it is a fumble, it is Not what the Rules say.LINK to www.supernfl.com/NFLRules.htmlProtection of Passer1. By interpretation, a pass begins when the passer -- with possession of ball -- starts to bring his hand forward. If ball strikes ground after this action has begun, play is ruled an incomplete pass. If passer loses control of ball prior to his bringing his hand forward, play is ruled a fumble.Carr most certainly lost control of the ball, the rest of the play clearly shows that.It looks more like a push than a pass, which would explain why Carr was turning not only his hand and arm but his entire body as he followed through.A push would also be consistent with the fact that the ball actually tumbled in the air on it's short flight, not end over end but side to side in a clock wise motion and was turned sideways when it fell into his offense lineman.There is no question that Carr lost control of the ball, the only question is when he lost control.The Officials ruled that it was when Smith made contact and nothing in the replays changed their minds on what they saw on the field.It could be, that if we had a replay showing the other side of Carr's hand when he was hit, nobody would even be talking about this call.But if it wasn't the hit that jarred to ball loose, As Smith Made Contact, just What was it that Caused Carr to lose control of it later in the play ?It was certainly a very close call but as far as I can tell the Officials got this one right ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 GREAT post JPW. Wow. That about wraps that up folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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