JBrooks Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 I know Marvin has said he doesn't like the 3-4 defense very much, but look how well Baltimore did with it. More impressive is how Belichik has done switching back and forth between 3-4 and 4-3, constantly confusing offenses.Personnel is definitely an issue with running the 3-4, but Marvin has said he likes the intelligence of Riall Johnson (great for a MLB) and he has definitely shown speed and ability to close on the ball in special teams. I don't think Riall is an every down back, only Marv and Les know that, but put him alongside another guy in the middle (Abdullah, Hardy, Ross has been talked about moving to the middle, or a good rookie). Hardy was a sack guy in college, move him to the outside in the 3-4. With a good rookie, Simmons, Hardy, Abdullah, Riall, and Ross, that gives us depth to rotate and keep players fresh and the ability to scheme to each guys ability moving back and forth between defenses.If we pick up a big DT via Free Agency, we have a Nose Tackle for the 3-4 with Smith at DE and Thornton at DE. Thornton is said to be a little small for a DT, but has better quickness and athletic ability. That's perfect for moving to 3-4 DE. With Tony Williams, Duane Clemons, Carl Powell, and another DT, whether it's Gibson, Steele or HOPEFULLY a rookie, it gives the rookie time to develop and much needed breathing time for all these guys (LB's included) to stay fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbengals1 Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 I like the idea of using both the 3-4 & 4-3 mix it up alittle but brat isnt know 4 mixing it up 2 much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 I don't think the Bengals could do a 3-4 with their poor ability to stop the run. You're absolutely right that the 3-4 is solely personnel, but we don't have the guys to perform such a task. I really thought that Baltimore used a 4-3 during the 2000 season with McCrary, Adams, the Goose, Burnett at the line and Boulware, Sharper and Lewis at LB. I could be wrong, my memory tends to fail me A LOT!, but I swore they used a 4-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam31 Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 You are correct Kirk, we used the 4-3 in 2000 and have employed the 3-4 ever since "The Purge" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBrooks Posted January 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 I don't think the Bengals could do a 3-4 with their poor ability to stop the run. You're absolutely right that the 3-4 is solely personnel, but we don't have the guys to perform such a task. I really thought that Baltimore used a 4-3 during the 2000 season with McCrary, Adams, the Goose, Burnett at the line and Boulware, Sharper and Lewis at LB. I could be wrong, my memory tends to fail me A LOT!, but I swore they used a 4-3. Absolutely right about 2000. I was talking mostly about this year and how well they did with a 3-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Hell yeah! I'm all for mixing it up. The Bengals defense was way too predictible at times. Especially on third down. I think the key to that is a defensive unit well seasoned enough, and used to playing together. Hopefully that hits home next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Hey Jam, whose that gorgous looking future Kirkendall product, err meat, or woman. Does she know Sharon or Jessica? I wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Well, The big thing about the 3-4 is having the people to play the roles and the Bengals don't have those people. Marvin and Frazier have shown they can mix things up, but they do need better players on the field. I think they should stick with the 4-3...Hell maybe even go to the 4-4 formation they showed in the first game against the Ravens...They have go to stop the run and get to the QB so I don't really care what formation they use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Here's the thing, in a 4-3, especially the way Marvin runs it, everything is funnelled to the MLB. All the other players, although very important, play support roles. In a 3-4, the way we run it, every player becomes as important as any other, that is, you can't funnel action anywhere. Ray is still the center of the offense cuz he's Ray, but Hartwell (the other ILB) has to make his fair share of plays (and I believe he was 2nd in tackles after Ray). Also, in a 3-4 you need big corners that can provide run support, and OLBs that can provide a lot of pressure. This works great for us b/c both our corners are 6 ft+, 200+ lbs, and both our OLBs are really just undersized DEs (Boulware and Suggs, in fact both played DE in college.)So, saying that, I think you should stick with the 4-3, unless there is a massive change in your personnel (which I'm not expecting). Besides which, you'll set your defense back a year as they learn the new system. Besides which, Marvin doesn't like it, so isn't this a moot discussion? Oh right, it's the offseason, all we have are these discussions. Carry on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam31 Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Hey Jam, whose that gorgous looking future Kirkendall product, err meat, or woman. Does she know Sharon or Jessica? I wonder.This my friend is my future wife, Natasha Henstrich. You remember the movies Species right??Yeah I am in love with her and she's a hell of a lot more attractive than Anthony Wright getting crunched (that's right Arizona, maybe you should do something about that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 I too like your pic Jam-man. I don't think I've ever seen a woman pose in such a totally accomodating position! In the immortal words of Jim Carrey..."Yummy!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richmond_mat Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 The 3-4 is the current trend for nfl defenses. I read an article last fall in the wall street journal about the cost efficiencies it implores. Not to mention the fact that this was the standard nfl D for decades.The retro defensive look can be cap friendly because young speedy linebackers are plentiful but fatties that run like deer are not. I think there were ten teams using it last season including Baltimore and Pittsburgh, up from like three or four the year before. The scheme works, but you need to taylor your team to it. I like the idea of using it.If coach doesn't like it then we'll not see the team doing it. However, more performances like December's and they may have to shake it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 The the popularity of the 3-4 fluctuates. In the Mid 90's it was the flavour of the month, then it went away again, now it's coming back...But then the NFL is always a copy cat league. I say play whatever works. Don't lock your team into one set Defense, use the players you have and just scheme right, everything falls into place. Switching schemes is not what the bengals need to do to help the defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 If we didn't see it last year, I doubt we'll see anytime during Marvin's tenure. We had one of the worst defenses in the league, a couple of quick young linebackers that really didn't get a showing because there's only 3 spots for the LBs. I really believe if we were going to use it, there would have been intermediate uses of it, which we saw none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBrooks Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 The the popularity of the 3-4 fluctuates. In the Mid 90's it was the flavour of the month, then it went away again, now it's coming back...But then the NFL is always a copy cat league. I say play whatever works. Don't lock your team into one set Defense, use the players you have and just scheme right, everything falls into place. Switching schemes is not what the bengals need to do to help the defense. I agree with not locking your team into one set, that's why I like Belichik's use of 3-4 and 4-3 depending on the team he's facing. He loves to get guys that are smart, work hard and ONLY play their assignment, not getting out of the gaps the defense puts them in. This sort of discipline says the system works and I don't have to leave my gap to try and force making a play.Lewis is smart and seems to like these same type of players. I don't know what we'll get next year, but I'm excited to see.As far as switching schemes not being the way to go...I don't know. Lewis was quoted just after the season saying the scheme is what we need to look at, not making major overhauls of personnel. He says he thinks he's got guys to make the plays, he just needs to focus more time on the defensive scheme and be in Frazier's hip pocket more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBrooks Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Lewis has said he wants to become more involved in the defense, but that coordinator Leslie Frazier is still going to call the plays. He has also said there won’t be many changes, but that the biggest one is in the players themselves. “The next step is we become a team that fixes its own flat,” Lewis said. “That we’re a self-coaching football team. That we can fix it from the inside out and policing the locker room.This was near the end of an article on Bengals.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 I don't care if we use MT. HEALTHY OWLS old 5 -2 general cover 3..... if it works... , I know there's got to be some cincy' public school people on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 The NFL tends to use what worked for the best team a season before. You see now that teams are converting to the Kippen 4-3 Cover 2 scheme. Years ago it was the Zone Blitz. Either way, I agree with you Chris, use what works and what your team is built for; which is the basic 4-3 for this team. Will Marvin and Fraiser go to something else? Well I guess we'll see in this draft who we get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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