Underrated/Overrated

[GROIIIDayton]

yeah and corey had a s**tty team he was playing with and he was real excited to be in cincinnati. No motivation with a s**tty team will keep a guys numbers a little on the down side. If corey had the team we had last year the motivation would have been there along with oh yeah an OFFENSIVE LINE that would have helped him too. Corey is way better don't even compare then.

P.S. Did you see all the Ohio State players on the overrated board... that is great... go blue.

[HoosierCat]

If corey had the team we had last year the motivation would have been there along with oh yeah an OFFENSIVE LINE that would have helped him too.

Dillon did have the same o-line in 2003, with the exception of Bobbie Williams, and an offense led by "comeback player of the year" Jon Kitna. All things considered, CD probably had it better in 2003 than Rudi did in 2004, since both Levi and Steinbach were healthy for most of the year, as opposed to playing hurt much of '04, and he had a vet vs. rookie QB. Yet he averaged just 3.9 yards a carry.

[ArmyBengal]

I will just say I agree to disagree, because this has gotten ridiculous. Make arguments to boost one player and make the opoosite comment about the player you "dislike". Good God. Players left, money was saved or spent more wisely, and we are now on the verge of the playoffs since how long ?? How many times were we where we are this year when "those" players were here ?? Wasn't it great going to the playoffs when CD and Spkies were here ?? What ?? We didn't ?? Oh, my bad... Here's to continued hope !!!

WHODEY !!!

[DontPushMe]

If Corey Dillon was our starting RB last year, with the offense we had, and was given the 363 carries RJ was given, he would have gone over 2000 yards, probly broken Dickerson's record, and we would have been in the playoffs.

Highly doubtful. You adore using Rudi's 4.0 per carry average in your "efficiency" argument, but ignore the fact that Dillon's was actually worse in 2 of his last 3 years here: 3.9 in '01 and '03. And it was just 4.2 in '02. There's no reason to think he would have rushed for many -- if any -- more yards here last year.

Umm in 03 he was injured pretty much the whole year, and was forced to share carries with a far inferior player, he quickly got down and really didnt care much anymore, dont use those numbers as if they meant something. As for '01, i would LOVE to of seen RJs numbers if he was on that team (oh wait, he was, he just sucked too much to get on the feild!). I doubt he would have even broke 2 ypc.

Just something id like to point out also, i know you guys will just say he was on a different team and dismiss it like that, but this season, in 2 less starts and 16 less carries, Corey Dillon got 181 MORE yards rushing than rj.

[Defender]

Just something id like to point out also, i know you guys will just say he was on a different team and dismiss it like that, but this season, in 2 less starts and 16 less carries, Corey Dillon got 181 MORE yards rushing than rj.

An objective football fan will acknowledge that the Pats offensive line was better than the Bengals for pretty much, if not all, of the season. With that said, Rudi's numbers would go up too, just like Dillon's did, if it was Rudi that had been traded to a clearly superior O-line, and not Corey.

But even you have to admit that Rudi Johnson wouldn't have even been allowed to think about the Pro Bowl, much less play in it regardless if he is a replacement or not, if he was really as bad as you want to believe. You don't have to call him better or as good as CD, but for God's sake you realistically can not say he's a far inferior player. Curtis Enis, Rashan Salaam and other busts like that were far inferior. Rudi has to be at least serviceable to accomplish what he has.

[Irish Bengal]

According to you even a hurt Dillon is better than an Healthy RJ, yet he couldn't displace Rudi even when he came back heathly.

If it wasn't for Brady, Dillon wouldn't have had close to the success he had last year. If I recall they won 2 Superbowls before Dillon got there. Sure he was a nice compliment to their offense but you could have plugged any RB into that role an he would have ben successful.

Dillon's gone so who cares what he could have done here and Spikes I see he's made the playoffs since he left huh.

Didn't Dillon only run for 88yds against the terrible run defense of the Bengals ?

Superstar!!!!

[DontPushMe]

Didn't Dillon only run for 88yds against the terrible run defense of the Bengals ?

Superstar!!!!

Didnt Rudi Johnson only run for 31 yards (on 19 carries ) against the terrible run defense of the Giants ?

Superstar!!!!

[HoosierCat]

Umm in 03 he was injured pretty much the whole year, and was forced to share carries with a far inferior player, he quickly got down and really didnt care much anymore, dont use those numbers as if they meant something.

Oh, you mean don't use those numbers because they contradict you? Facts are inconvenient that way, aren't they? Dillon did not suffer that severely in '03. He still averaged nearly 11 carries a game for 3.9 yards per. Meanwhile, that "clearly inferior back" somehow managed a 4.5 yard average on just a handful more carries per game (16.5).

Just something id like to point out also, i know you guys will just say he was on a different team and dismiss it like that, but this season, in 2 less starts and 16 less carries, Corey Dillon got 181 MORE yards rushing than rj.

And let me point out something you'll no doubt dismiss: the Pats' No. 2 back, Kevin Faulk, who managed something like 3.6 yards per carry in '03, matched CD's 4.7 in '04. I guess he's just as good as Corey, huh?

[DontPushMe]

And let me point out something you'll no doubt dismiss: the Pats' No. 2 back, Kevin Faulk, who managed something like 3.6 yards per carry in '03, matched CD's 4.7 in '04. I guess he's just as good as Corey, huh?

Why would you even post that? It does nothing but help my arguement. Faulk improved because he had a legend in front of him wearing defenses down.

[jjakq27]

And let me point out something you'll no doubt dismiss: the Pats' No. 2 back, Kevin Faulk, who managed something like 3.6 yards per carry in '03, matched CD's 4.7 in '04. I guess he's just as good as Corey, huh?

Why would you even post that? It does nothing but help my arguement. Faulk improved because he had a legend in front of him wearing defenses down.

And the legend has you as his biggest pimp.

[HoosierCat]

And let me point out something you'll no doubt dismiss: the Pats' No. 2 back, Kevin Faulk, who managed something like 3.6 yards per carry in '03, matched CD's 4.7 in '04. I guess he's just as good as Corey, huh?

Why would you even post that? It does nothing but help my arguement. Faulk improved because he had a legend in front of him wearing defenses down.

Funny then, how the "legend" himself became less effective (fewer yards per carry) as the game went on.

[HairOnFire]

Would CD have ran for more yards than Rudi with our offense ?? Maybe yes, maybe no, there's no way to determine that so it's a guessing game you are playing.

There's no need to guess. Corey Dillon started for this team and played within it's offense for what...seven seasons? Yet he never produced more rushing yards in a season than Johnson did and the Bengals never got a whiff of the playoffs with Dillon being the featured player within the offense.

So again, there's no reason to guess. Case closed. Dillon started for the Bengals far too long for anyone to think that his presence would have resulted in anything but 3 or 4 wins earned by way of an angry malcontent who whined about everything. No kidding, without being propped up by a team that had already won multiple championships, that's Dillons reputation and history. Or if you prefer...his Bengal legacy.

Corey Dillon was the scowling face of endless losing, and had he stayed it's more than possible that nothing would have changed.

Meanwhile, Rudi Johnson's legacy seems to include breaking Dillon's records while constantly demonstrating how a player who truly cares about winning and being a professional should conduct himself.

So argue if you want about whether Rudi is a better running back than Corey Dillon, but the issue of who is a better man, teammate, and football player has already been decided. It's Rudi.

[HairOnFire]

Oh, you mean don't use those numbers because they contradict you? Facts are inconvenient that way, aren't they? Dillon did not suffer that severely in '03. He still averaged nearly 11 carries a game for 3.9 yards per. Meanwhile, that "clearly inferior back" somehow managed a 4.5 yard average on just a handful more carries per game (16.5).

Isn't this the rather familiar point in our story where DPM takes a short break from guessing about what stats both players might have produced if everything was completely different...just so he can whine bitterly about other posters using actual stats?

[HairOnFire]

Didnt Rudi Johnson only run for 31 yards (on 19 carries ) against the terrible run defense of the Giants ?

Superstar!!!!

Sorta reminds me of every occasion some Bengal coach warned that Corey Dillon was mad and looking to take it out on some other teams defense. For those that don't remember, anytime it was said that Corey Dillon was going to run angry you could count on him gaining less than 50 yards rushing in the game. Apparently, to run angry often means dancing endlessly behind the LOS as you try to turn ever attempt into a TD run.

Frankly, I was never sure who was supposed to be more worried about predictions that Dillon would run angry, the opposing team or long suffering Bengal fans?

[DontPushMe]

So argue if you want about whether Rudi is a better running back than Corey Dillon, but the issue of who is a better man, teammate, and football player has already been decided. It's Rudi.

hahahahahaha, yea right, you wish

remember this:

“We’ll see what happens,” Johnson said a day after he served as the AFC’s leading rusher with 33 yards on six carries in the 38-27 win over the NFC. “I’m going to stand by what I said. We’ll just see what can get done in the next couple of days.”

Johnson has said he’ll sit out the season if given the one-year tags of either the franchise or the transition. By tendering Johnson a one-year franchise deal for $6.3 million by Feb. 22, a team would have to give the Bengals two first-round draft picks to sign him. No franchised player since the mid-1990s has sat out a season.

RJ cares only about money, thats it. He wanted the big signing bonus, because he knew he would never top this past season, and wanted to max out his cash, he was willing to abandon his team completely in order to do so.

Corey Dillon on the other hand wanted to win, thats it. Money came second for him to winning, the only reason hes not here anymore is because the losing and careless team management just took its toll. Read the quotes in my profile below for info on the kinda team player dillon is when its not just a 1 man show.

Ill take a 'mean' player who wants to win over a nice player that wants money any day.

Championships:

Corey Dillon - 1

Rudi Johnson - 0

Oh, and hair, yes corey dillon had a few bad games while here, a few. But RJ had 11 of them last year. 11 games where he failed to reach 4 ypc. Pathetic. Stop defending him, it would be like me trieng to defend Artrell Hawkins.

[JPW]

Right now I think Carson Palmer is a little overrated. 

I agree, i had been thinking about posting this as well...

I find this a bit strange ...

A Bengals' Fan who goes out of his way to defend the likes of Kyle Boller, at every possible opportunity.

Yet in his mind Carson Palmer is overrated ?

Give me a break already ...

[bengalsLB]

And let me point out something you'll no doubt dismiss: the Pats' No. 2 back, Kevin Faulk, who managed something like 3.6 yards per carry in '03, matched CD's 4.7 in '04. I guess he's just as good as Corey, huh?

Why would you even post that? It does nothing but help my arguement. Faulk improved because he had a legend in front of him wearing defenses down.

corey dillion a legend? what u smokin and where can i get some?

honestly CD will never be in the HOF

[Ickey44]

I wouldn't go that far. He's got a Superbowl ring now, and for some voters, that's all that matters. I don't think he's HOF material either, but some of the people that actually get to vote for that are on crack.

[JPW]

corey dillion a legend? what u smokin and where can i get some?

honestly CD will never be in the HOF

Yea calling him a legend is way over the top ...

But Dillion has been a very good RB and getting a ring does help.

If he can hang in there and get 3 or 4 more good years, I think that he has a good shot at making the HoF.

[HoosierCat]

RJ cares only about money, thats it. He wanted the big signing bonus, because he knew he would never top this past season, and wanted to max out his cash, he was willing to abandon his team completely in order to do so.

Corey Dillon on the other hand wanted to win, thats it. Money came second for him to winning, the only reason hes not here anymore is because the losing and careless team management just took its toll. Read the quotes in my profile below for info on the kinda team player dillon is when its not just a 1 man show.

Lemme get this straight: Rudi, in the midst of contract negotiations, declares "we'll see."

Dillon, in the midst of negtiations, declares, "I'd rather flip burgers than play in Cincinnati."

Yet...Rudi's the bad guy?

As for the "losing taking its toll," please. Dillon was disgruntled from day 1, round 2, when he was pissed he wasn't taken in round 1, and came into the league as a punk with a rap sheet as long as my arm. Well, I give him props for not completely self-destructing, but the bottom line that it's him, not Mikey or LeBeau or Schula or whoever that was responsible for his words and actions. Just him.

And really, what has Dillon accomplished? Seriously. All those records -- the rookie rushing record, the single-game mark, the franchise (Bengals) record -- have all been eclipsed. He was a very good RB on a poor team, but his efforts (when he chose to make them) never helped carry the team to anything other than a .500 season. His big success came last year, with a Pats squad that had already proven that it didn't need a top back to win the Lombardi. Essentially, he just fastened on to the Pats like a leech onto a shark and rode that to a ring. Well, bully.

[walshfan]

Bobbi williams is vastly underated.... He did have 7 false starts as oppposed to Willie and Levi having 4 but he didnt give up any sacks from his position and was only called for 4 penalties for 35 yards last year.. He's getting better and better as a guard...

[JPW]

RJ cares only about money, thats it. He wanted the big signing bonus, because he knew he would never top this past season, and wanted to max out his cash, he was willing to abandon his team completely in order to do so.

Corey Dillon on the other hand wanted to win, thats it. Money came second for him to winning, the only reason hes not here anymore is because the losing and careless team management just took its toll. Read the quotes in my profile below for info on the kinda team player dillon is when its not just a 1 man show.

Ill take a 'mean' player who wants to win over a nice player that wants money any day.

Championships:

Corey Dillon - 1

Rudi Johnson - 0

Oh, and hair, yes corey dillon had a few bad games while here, a few. But RJ had 11 of them last year. 11 games where he failed to reach 4 ypc. Pathetic. Stop defending him, it would be like me trieng to defend Artrell Hawkins.

Why only tell 1/2 of the story ?

Talking about sitting out, turned out to be nothing more than "agent talk", Rudi did in fact end up signing the tender and then a long term contract.

Every player wants to Win but every player also wants to get paid ...

Rudi was under-paid for 03 & 04 and he was now a free agent, all he wanted was a long term deal.

You blame him for that ?

What Dillon did on the other hand was, just about as sorry of an act as you will ever see from any player. (Read the quote by John Madden in my profile below )

The bottom line in this story is ...

Dillon got his wish and was traded to a ready made SB team.

Rudi got the starting job for the Bengals.

The team got a 2nd round draft pick.

Everybody seems to be happy with how it turned out except you.

Get over it already ...

A few thoughts ...

Dillon had a better season last year than Rudi did.

The difference is not as huge as you make it out to be, Rudi also had a very good season, but Dillon did have a better year.

However Dillon is on the back side of his career while Rudi's future is still ahead of him. (Read the Rudi quotes in my profile below)

Personally, I wish Dillon well with the rest of his career, but at this point I am happy to have his replacement already in place.

And, if Chris Perry can recover and turns out to be what he is expected to be, we will indeed have the complete backfield.

A backfield that will Hopefully remind us of the Brooks/Woods combo.

On another note ...

While IMO it is still too early to call Kyle Boller a bust just yet, he Has Most Certainly been "The Suck" so far up to this point. (Read the Len Pasquarelli quote in my profile below)

How is it that you, as a Bengals' Fan, can be so interested in defending this guy's "suckingness" and at the same time you declare that Carson Palmer is somehow overrated ?

[HairOnFire]

Lemme get this straight: Rudi, in the midst of contract negotiations, declares "we'll see."

Dillon, in the midst of negtiations, declares, "I'd rather flip burgers than play in Cincinnati."

Yet...Rudi's the bad guy?

Welcome to Don'tPushMe world where up is down, right is left, and Corey Dillon spends all of his free time at the shelter removing carelessly tossed cell phones from the bleeding mouths and ears of battered housewives. Yes indeed, life is good here in DPM World. Gas is free, the President isn't a bleating moron, and it's been said that Chris Perry can actually stand upright for prolonged periods of time without any help.

(((sigh)))

[HairOnFire]

Championships:

Corey Dillon - 1

Rudi Johnson - 0

Screw Dillon in the eyes. How about a comparison between Rudi Johnson and any of the past Patriot backs who won championships with the Patriots? Because if Rudi Johnson shakes out as a better back than Faulk or Smith then doesn't it stand to reason that the Patriots would have won the same championships with Rudi as they did with others?

[DontPushMe]

RJ cares only about money, thats it. He wanted the big signing bonus, because he knew he would never top this past season, and wanted to max out his cash, he was willing to abandon his team completely in order to do so.

Corey Dillon on the other hand wanted to win, thats it. Money came second for him to winning, the only reason hes not here anymore is because the losing and careless team management just took its toll. Read the quotes in my profile below for info on the kinda team player dillon is when its not just a 1 man show.

Lemme get this straight: Rudi, in the midst of contract negotiations, declares "we'll see."

Dillon, in the midst of negtiations, declares, "I'd rather flip burgers than play in Cincinnati."

Yet...Rudi's the bad guy?

As for the "losing taking its toll," please. Dillon was disgruntled from day 1, round 2, when he was pissed he wasn't taken in round 1, and came into the league as a punk with a rap sheet as long as my arm. Well, I give him props for not completely self-destructing, but the bottom line that it's him, not Mikey or LeBeau or Schula or whoever that was responsible for his words and actions. Just him.

And really, what has Dillon accomplished? Seriously. All those records -- the rookie rushing record, the single-game mark, the franchise (Bengals) record -- have all been eclipsed. He was a very good RB on a poor team, but his efforts (when he chose to make them) never helped carry the team to anything other than a .500 season. His big success came last year, with a Pats squad that had already proven that it didn't need a top back to win the Lombardi. Essentially, he just fastened on to the Pats like a leech onto a shark and rode that to a ring. Well, bully.

Corey Dillon wanted to go to another team, because he wanted to win. He never said anything like i wouldnt play for a team on the franchise tag. His primary focus was winning, he couldnt do that here, RJs primary focus is money, and Mike Brown/ML bit.

And as for dillon riding the patriots to a super bowl. Read the quotes in my sig here. With all the injuries the pats had last year, if they didnt have dillon they wouldnt of won the super bowl. Dont be foolish.

Oh yeah, and to the guy posting about palmer/boller. Palmer is better than boller, but Palmer is also being hyped up like hes already in the pro bowl, when he really hasnt proved all that much, besides a few games. I believe he will live up to it, but he hasnt yet, therefore, hes overrated right now. And as for boller, i only post defending him when someone goes out of their way to diss him. Hes not nearly as bad as some of you like to think. Hes not a great qb either, probly never will be, but hes also not the worst starter in the league like you guys make him out to be.