who should we let go in 06

[bengalsLB]

we can't keep all of them

[Kirkendall]

Justin Smith.

Big Willy will probably play with a new deal before the season starts. And in no way do we let go two offensive lineman (Jones, Steinbach).

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Wanna bet? If Indy can keep James, Harrison and Manning and pay each of them as much as they are, we can keep our guys. Big Willie is on the downside of his career, and is already talking to management about an extension with a cut in pay to keep other guys.

[vman1186]

Steinbech is a gaurd. They can be replaced. Enough said.

[walkthechalk]

Aren't there others whose contracts expire in 06? It looked like Tory James, Reggie Kelly, and Duane Clemons could all be cut too. Quite frankly I'd rather see any of these guys go instead of those other 4. Tory maybe not...but he's old and we could build some more depth at corner probably. Is that an option or should I just keep my fingers away from the keyboard?

[HairOnFire]

Justin Smith.

Big Willy will probably play with a new deal before the season starts. And in no way do we let go two offensive lineman (Jones, Steinbach).

Four players to choose from, one defensive & three offensive lineman, and the defensive player gets the bullet to the head? Sheesh, no wonder this team has no defensive heritage to crow about.

Extend Willie this year. Let the situation play out with the other two blockers. In fact, handle Steinbach and Jones exactly like the Bengals handled Takeo and Simmons. Two players...one big bag of money...which one jumps? Sign that guy and wave goodbye to the other. Meanwhile, extend Smith if possible. Tag him later if it isn't.

[Kirkendall]

Four players to choose from, one defensive & three offensive lineman, and the defensive player gets the bullet to the head? Sheesh, no wonder this team has no defensive heritage to crow about.

Justin Smith doesn't make a difference on defense. In fact, Greg Seamon once said at a banquet this off-season Smith tends to do his own thing in terms of what's taught technique-wise and that's why he's always stalled at the defensive line, consistently. He doesn't adjust, nor does he improve against the league's best fat uglies.

I'm all for improving our defense and letting Smith go may do just that. However, I'll almost guarantee that Smith won't be here when his contract expires.

Keeping your offensive line together is the hardest thing to do, but when you reflect on the winning teams of the past, more times than not you have a line that's been together for a long period of time.

But the last thing you want to do is what you suggest. Rudi reacted negatively when it happened before toning down his rhetoric. In fact, look at the reactions with most players that are tagged -- it's typically negative.

I say sign all your offensive linemen, except maybe Bobbie Williams (and Richie will be retired by year #2 of his deal) and keep as much together as you can.

[Kazkal]

Four players to choose from, one defensive & three offensive lineman, and the defensive player gets the bullet to the head? Sheesh, no wonder this team has no defensive heritage to crow about.

Justin Smith doesn't make a difference on defense. In fact, Greg Seamon once said at a banquet this off-season Smith tends to do his own thing in terms of what's taught technique-wise and that's why he's always stalled at the defensive line, consistently. He doesn't adjust, nor does he improve against the league's best fat uglies.

I'm all for improving our defense and letting Smith go may do just that. However, I'll almost guarantee that Smith won't be here when his contract expires.

Keeping your offensive line together is the hardest thing to do, but when you reflect on the winning teams of the past, more times than not you have a line that's been together for a long period of time.

But the last thing you want to do is what you suggest. Rudi reacted negatively when it happened before toning down his rhetoric. In fact, look at the reactions with most players that are tagged -- it's typically negative.

I say sign all your offensive linemen, except maybe Bobbie Williams (and Richie will be retired by year #2 of his deal) and keep as much together as you can.

So let justin go and rely daune? /laugh or geathers who looks to be promising but still is unproven? justin is our best D-linemen atm + even if geathers outdoes him I rather have a great DE + good DE then a great DE and crappy one

~PS,Get them all to sign decent deals then reward them in the uncapped year(2007)

[HairOnFire]

Justin Smith doesn't make a difference on defense. In fact, Greg Seamon once said at a banquet this off-season Smith tends to do his own thing in terms of what's taught technique-wise and that's why he's always stalled at the defensive line, consistently. He doesn't adjust, nor does he improve against the league's best fat uglies.

I'm all for improving our defense and letting Smith go may do just that. However, I'll almost guarantee that Smith won't be here when his contract expires.

What did Greg Seamon say about the rest of the Bengals D-line? Did he have excuses why they don't play better than they do? Did he explain why John Thornton hasn't made the impact that he was supposed to OR why Duane Clemons can't stop the run? Those players are apparently listening to the coaches in regards to technique, right? So why haven't they performed better? Seamon probably didn't say, did he?

Did he explain how Smith's ability to stop the run is the key to the changes that have resulted in every starter on the defensive line being either replaced or moved? Did he mention how a player like Smith is supposed to make an impact in a defensive scheme that has since been discredited and it's coordinator replaced? Did he mention what the new coordinator thinks of Smith?

Did he comment on the other side of the ball where Levi Jones grades out as a solid but unspectacular player whose status makes him no more deserving of a big contract than Smith? Did he mention why Eric Steinbach supposedly deserves a long-term deal immediately after producing his sophmore slump of a season? Yeah, I know what the excuses are. Doesn't change a thing though. Besides, Steinbach is a OG.

As for the guarantee that Smith won't remain a Bengal after his contract expires? Been there, heard that. In fact, lots of people said the very same things about Rudi Johnson, the starting RB the Bengals just locked up long-term.

[HairOnFire]

But the last thing you want to do is what you suggest. Rudi reacted negatively when it happened before toning down his rhetoric. In fact, look at the reactions with most players that are tagged -- it's typically negative.

So what? If players react negatively initially then it's just as true that almost all of them eventually play under the tag and many of them are later extended by the team now that some bargaining time has been secured. And I wouldn't worry very much about Smith's reaction to the tag as his rookie holdout proved he's aware of the business side of the game and will play well regardless of the bargaining table issues.

Besides, what's the alternative? Overpaying all THREE offensive lineman even if they are undeserving of the money their positions dictate they be paid?

Frankly, if Smith is allowed to leave after his contract expires it'll be because this team couldn't afford to pay him what other teams will, not because his play was so lacking that the Bengals had no further interest in keeping him.

[Spain]

  steinbach is a gaurd  they can be replaced

Steinbach is the best of all those guys when healthy. Whats wrong with you guys we wont be able to run the ball without this guy. It is absurd to let Bach go IMHO

I voted Levi because Andrews should be ready. However we can keep them all thats why we are going to sign some of these guys this year. Justin clearly is the most expendable if they can get a replacement.

[HoosierCat]

Don't forget that we have the Stacy Andrews Project in the works; everything has sounded pretty positive on that front so far. Should he pan out, we could let either tackle, Willie or Levi, walk.

[The Big Orange]

I would say that Justin and one of the guards is on the chopping block and they will be watched closely to see if they perform this year. One or two of those guys will become a Hououououououououoschmenzadeh, the other will become a Clemmons..by seasons end we will know...currently DE is one of our shallowest positions IMextremelyHO

[Kirkendall]

So let justin go and rely daune?

Look at the question a little harder Kaz. It says '06, and you get four options. I picked one.

[The Big Orange]

So let justin go and rely daune? /laugh or geathers who looks to be promising but still is unproven? justin is our best D-linemen atm + even if geathers outdoes him I rather have a great DE + good DE then a great DE and crappy one

Kaz..Oh Kaz...

Are you typing with your face or while bungee jumping?...don't give me that..."I'm from another country" either.

Drafting D-linemen will look a lot like our drafting of O-linemen this year. And either Keift or Andrews will be starting for us before the end of '06 if not '05. But if J.Smith does 8.5 again this year again and Jumpy get at least that...we'll probably try to keep that line intact.

I'll predict J.Smith will get 9 sacks and Jumpy will get 11...Thornton 3, other fat guy...Robinson 1, Pollack 5, Madeiu 4, Odell 2, Tory 0, Deltha 2, Mitchell 2, Landon 2, Simmons 1, Kim 1

That's 42...last year we had 37...Ravens had 39, Pittsburgh had 41, NE had 45.

[The Big Orange]

Keiwan 1...thats 43

[Kirkendall]

Hair --

What did Greg Seamon say about the rest of the Bengals D-line?

Can't say. The question he answered dealt specifically with Smith. I can't assume about the others or the details you're in search of.

Besides, what's the alternative? Overpaying all THREE offensive lineman even if they are undeserving of the money their positions dictate they be paid?

Who said anything about overpaying?

Frankly, if Smith is allowed to leave after his contract expires it'll be because this team couldn't afford to pay him what other teams will, not because his play was so lacking that the Bengals had no further interest in keeping him.

Averages less than 8 sacks a season? Moves to the other side of the line against weaker offensive tackles? I'm sure the interest is about gone. It is for me.

[HairOnFire]

Don't forget that we have the Stacy Andrews Project in the works; everything has sounded pretty positive on that front so far. Should he pan out, we could let either tackle, Willie or Levi, walk.

Yup, and they just drafted a C/OG and another OT prospect as well. Both could be ready by the time short straws are drawn.

And for all of the talk about the Bengals not needing Justin Smith, well...I'm starting to think some of you guys have already forgotten the heady splendor that was the Michael Bankston days.

[HairOnFire]

Averages less than 8 sacks a season? Moves to the other side of the line against weaker offensive tackles? I'm sure the interest is about gone. It is for me.

Well fair enough. That said, I'd suggest you grab hold of your sorry butt with both hands and pray the Bengals can score 40 points every week because re-signing nothing but your own offensive free agents every season is what you're talking about. This season we get Rudi, TJ, and Richie. In the future we get Levi, Big Willie, and Steinbach. And while we're at it try wasting a 1st round draft pick or two on backup offensive positions just to make sure the defense never gets what it needs. Perfect.

Moving on, your point about Smith being moved to face weaker offensive tackles is completely and totally wrong. By moving to the defensive left side Smith will be facing right offensive tackles, usually far bigger and more powerful run blockers than their LT counterparts....and most importantly, blockers that are far too strong for Duane Clemons. Thus, Smith is moving to the left due to the Bengals desire to take better advantage of one of his individual strengths and to hopefully solve a team weakness. So yeah, I'd say the Bengals were still interested in Smith, even if you aren't.

As for sacks, you do realize that you're whining about a player who has averaged more sacks while working against athletic LT's than Duane Clemons has managed against slower RT's. And Smith's sacks have also come while working on defensive units that have completely lacked a single example of a better-than-average complimentary pass rusher....inside or out.

[HairOnFire]

"We know they like the player." --- Jim Steiner, Justin Smith's agent, explaining a few hours ago why the Bengals have expressed INTEREST in extending his client's contract.

[derekshank]

I voted Levi too. I think he is good, but I for one am in agreement with Prisco that he is not top 10 (Don't curse me please). He will however be demanding top 10 money, and someone will be willing to give it too him. We have much MUCH better depth on the O-Line than the D-Line, and I don't think there will be the interest from other team toward Justin Smith like there will for any of our O-Linemen.

Therefore, just form a money point of view, and the understanding that we need to build that defense rather than continue pouring all of our cash on the offense, I'd rather continue drafting O-linemen, and try to keep Smith, because I think he can be really productive, for less $.

On the other side of the coin... I don't know the what the ratio is for drafting a successful O-lineman, and drafting a successful D-Lineman. I could probably be easily swayed if it could be shown that D-linemen are easier to draft and produce. I just haven't witnessed that in the last couple of drafts.

[JPW]

Somebody correct me if I am wrong but arn't these guys signed through '06 ?

Which means that we have like two years to deal with this including the '07 off season.

Let's just Pray, that they have an extension of the CBA in place by then.

And better yet, that we sign these guys to new contracts before then ...

[Kazkal]

"The Bengals have made some noises about extending Pro Bowl right tackle Willie Anderson, left tackle Levi Jones and defensive end Justin Smith, all up after 2006. Anderson’s agent, Terry Bolar has met with Bengals executive vice president Katie Blackburn, and Blackburn has made a preliminary call on Jones, said agent Ken Zuckerman. Jim Steiner, Smith’s agent, hasn’t been called but said word had been given to his client that the club is interested in doing something."

Seems eric is the weak link

[Kazkal]

So let justin go and rely daune? /laugh or geathers who looks to be promising but still is unproven? justin is our best D-linemen atm + even if geathers outdoes him I rather have a great  DE + good DE then a great DE and crappy one

Kaz..Oh Kaz...

Are you typing with your face or while bungee jumping?...don't give me that..."I'm from another country" either.

Drafting D-linemen will look a lot like our drafting of O-linemen this year. And either Keift or Andrews will be starting for us before the end of '06 if not '05. But if J.Smith does 8.5 again this year again and Jumpy get at least that...we'll probably try to keep that line intact.

I'll predict J.Smith will get 9 sacks and Jumpy will get 11...Thornton 3, other fat guy...Robinson 1, Pollack 5, Madeiu 4, Odell 2, Tory 0, Deltha 2, Mitchell 2, Landon 2, Simmons 1, Kim 1

That's 42...last year we had 37...Ravens had 39, Pittsburgh had 41, NE had 45.

no I just suck at typing

Wait wait I'm from spain I swear.

[vman1186]

The one player we should NOT let got is Jones. All the others have reasons why it might (only might) be ok to let them go.

Levi's is age, Steinbech's is position, and Smith is the worst player at his position out of the four. I can't think of any downside to Jones, other than that Levi is probably a little better, but who knows it might be different in 06 as he continues to improve.