DontPushMe Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Someone posted this on the huddles so i figured id bring it over here.from ESPNinsider.com:Steals and Reaches Plenty of teams reached for draft picks, and just as many had some great steals fall into their laps. Here's my opinion on which picks came off the board too early and which lasted longer than most thought they would. And it's important to note that I rate steals and reaches based on my overall rankings, not where I projected players to go in my mock draft:STEALSWR Mike Williams, No. 10 overall, DetroitQB Aaron Rodgers, No. 24 to Green BayWR Roddy White, No. 27 to Atlanta DE Matt Roth, No. 46 to Miami LB Odell Thurman, No. 47 to Cincinnati GOT Khalif Barnes, No. 52 overall to Jacksonville DE Dan Cody, No. 53 overall to Baltimore WR Roscoe Parrish, No. 55 overall to Buffalo CB Justin Miller, No. 57 to New York Jets CB Bryant McFadden, No. 62 to Pittsburgh CB Eric Green, No. 75 to Arizona RB Ryan Moats, No. 77 to Philadelphia OG Evan Mathis, No. 79 to Carolina OG Adam Snyder, No. 94 to San Francisco LB Darryl Blackstock, No. 95 to Arizona OT Ray Willis, No. 105 to Seattle QB Kyle Orton, No. 106 to Chicago WR Jerome Mathis, No. 114 to Houston C Eric Ghiaciuc, No. 119 to CincinnatiC Jason Brown, No. 124 to Baltimore RB Darren Sproles, No. 130 to San Diego WR Roydell Williams, No. 136 to Tennessee WR Airese Currie, No. 140 to Chicago OT Adam Kieft, No. 153 to Cincinnati S Gerald Sensabaugh, No. 157 to Jacksonville G Scott Young, No. 172 to Philadelphia G Chris Kemoeatu, No. 204 to Pittsburgh S Justin Beriault, No. 208 to Dallas OT Pete McMahon, No. 214 to Oakland CB Daven Holly, No. 215 to San FranciscoREACHESWR Matt Jones, No. 21 overall to JacksonvilleCB Fabian Washington, No. 23 to OaklandQB Jason Campbell, No. 25 to Washington DT Luis Castillo, No. 28 to San Diego G Logan Mankins, No. 32 to New England CB Stanford Routt, No. 30 to Oakland LB Lofa Tatupu, No. 45 to Seattle CB Ronald Bartell Jr., No. 50 overall to St. Louis CB Nick Collins, No. 51 to Green Bay CB Darrent Williams, No 56 to Denver CB Kelvin Hayden, No. 60 to Indianapolis WR Vincent Jackson, No. 61 to San Diego CB Karl Paymah, No. 76 to Denver OL Richie Incognito, No. 81 overall to St. Louis QB David Greene, No. 85 to Seattle CB Scott Starks, No. 87 to Jacksonville DT Sione Pouha, No. 88 to New York Jets DE Vincent Burns, No. 92 to Indianapolis OT Trai Essex, No. 93 to Pittsburgh CB Domonique Foxworth, No. 97 to Denver LB Leroy Hill, No. 98 to Seattle OG Nick Kaczur, No. 100 to New England RB Maurice Clarett, No. 101 to Denver RB Manuel White, No. 120 to Washington C Raymond Preston, No. 122 to Buffalo S Kerry Rhodes, No. 123 to New York Jets DE Chauncey Davis, No. 128 to Atlanta OG Claude Terrell, No. 134 to St. Louis S Matt Giordano, No. 135 to Indianapolis C Drew Hodgdon, No. 142 to Tennessee CB Michael Hawkins, No. 167 to Green Bay S Ben Emanuel, No. 171 to Carolina LB Tyjuan Hagler, No. 173 to Indianapolis========================Im posting this to point a few things out. As i have said, Ghiaciuc is a steal, and was a great pick, and will, regaurdless of Wilkersons health, be our starting center.Also, please note that Antajj Hawthorne was not even a steal in the 6th round. Thats how bad of a player he is. He wouldnt of helped our team, or even made the 53 man roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Wow, Helmethair is really jumping on the Bengals Bandwagon this year isn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Wha?!?!? The Bengals aren't on the "reaching" list!?! There must be some mistake/typo/error here! We used to OWN that list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet23 Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Wha?!?!? The Bengals aren't on the "reaching" list!?! There must be some mistake/typo/error here! We used to OWN that list! Let's see. Who are some of my favorite reaches.F. ChildressS. BrewerT. DorschC. FisherA. Hawkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Someone posted this on the huddles so i figured id bring it over here. Feel free to bring anything from there to here that isn't named Cicero or Ralph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Wha?!?!? The Bengals aren't on the "reaching" list!?! There must be some mistake/typo/error here! We used to OWN that list! Odd isn't it.... Almost feels like a conspiracy to get our hopes up and then crush them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Orange Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Call me silly but I would be totally happy with a draft like last year where everybody and his brother said we had taken Landon and Madeiu and Keiwan a half to whole round early. I have faith in Marvin, his staff and scouts so much more then any of the talking heads on the boob tube. I wish everybody would say that this was the worst draft ever and allow the field to be the proving grounds. The press serve one purpose...for me to laugh at them when they say stupid things and make horrible predictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-U-D-I Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Maybe they're starting to realize that ML knows what he is doing and this is not your 90's Bengals anymore!! Let's face it, for 12 years they could automatically write that whatever the Bengals did was stupid and they'd be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 How do you know Ghiaciuc will be our starting center? Wilkerson is much more expierenced than he is and will be given a long look. Wilkerson could play guard too, but I exxpect it to be a war for the the starting Center Spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 REACHESWR Matt Jones, No. 21 overall to JacksonvilleCB Fabian Washington, No. 23 to OaklandQB Jason Campbell, No. 25 to Washington DT Luis Castillo, No. 28 to San Diego G Logan Mankins, No. 32 to New England CB Stanford Routt, No. 30 to Oakland LB Lofa Tatupu, No. 45 to Seattle CB Ronald Bartell Jr., No. 50 overall to St. Louis CB Nick Collins, No. 51 to Green Bay CB Darrent Williams, No 56 to Denver CB Kelvin Hayden, No. 60 to Indianapolis WR Vincent Jackson, No. 61 to San Diego CB Karl Paymah, No. 76 to Denver OL Richie Incognito, No. 81 overall to St. Louis QB David Greene, No. 85 to Seattle CB Scott Starks, No. 87 to Jacksonville DT Sione Pouha, No. 88 to New York Jets DE Vincent Burns, No. 92 to Indianapolis OT Trai Essex, No. 93 to Pittsburgh CB Domonique Foxworth, No. 97 to Denver LB Leroy Hill, No. 98 to Seattle OG Nick Kaczur, No. 100 to New England RB Maurice Clarett, No. 101 to Denver RB Manuel White, No. 120 to Washington C Raymond Preston, No. 122 to Buffalo S Kerry Rhodes, No. 123 to New York Jets DE Chauncey Davis, No. 128 to Atlanta OG Claude Terrell, No. 134 to St. Louis S Matt Giordano, No. 135 to Indianapolis C Drew Hodgdon, No. 142 to Tennessee CB Michael Hawkins, No. 167 to Green Bay S Ben Emanuel, No. 171 to Carolina LB Tyjuan Hagler, No. 173 to Indianapolis Not that it matters much, but no team was given credit for more steals than the Bengals. Conversly, look at the repeat offenders in the reach group. Denver heads the list with four reaches, Seattle, St.Louis, and Indy show up three times, and teams like the Raiders and Green Bay get slapped twice. My own favorites... Least shocking steal - Matt Roth, Miami. Way too good to last very long. In a word, toldja. Most surprising reach - Trai Essex, Steelers. Never saw it coming. Still don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboy40 Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Wha?!?!?  The Bengals aren't on the "reaching" list!?! There must be some mistake/typo/error here! We used to OWN that list!Let's see. Who are some of my favorite reaches.F. ChildressS. BrewerT. DorschC. FisherA. Hawkins aaaaaaaah! flashbacks! *vomits*...don't forget bout reinard wilson and, in my opinion, peter warrick (even though i love the guy, he wasn't a 4th-overall calibur guy)...hawkins *vomit*DORSCH!!!! *vomit*SEAN FLIPPIN BREWER! all hail marvin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontPushMe Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 How do you know Ghiaciuc will be our starting center? Wilkerson is much more expierenced than he is and will be given a long look. Wilkerson could play guard too, but I exxpect it to be a war for the the starting Center Spot. Because Ghiaciuc is a good player, wilkerson isnt. You guys are going to be suprised on cut down day when Wilkerson gets cut. Something that i think is pretty likely.as for Artrell Hawkins... 13 43 Artrell Hawkins Bengals DB Cincinnati 14 44 Patrick Surtain Dolphins DB Southern Mississippi 15 45 Brian Kelly Buccaneers DB USC 16 46 Samari Rolle Oilers DB Florida State Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 How is Wilkerson not? He co-won the nations top center award. Where was Ghiaciuc? Wasn't even close to winning it. Don't get me wrong he is good, but Wilkerson is much better. He wont get cut trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalindian Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 As far as the Trai Essex pick by the Steelers, my roomate (who is a Steelers fan) and I figured out that the Steelers only draft players with unique and/or long names. Just look at their roster and you will see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontPushMe Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 How is Wilkerson not? He co-won the nations top center award. Where was Ghiaciuc? Wasn't even close to winning it. Don't get me wrong he is good, but Wilkerson is much better. He wont get cut trust me. I cant wait untill this mindset is gone. Believe me, if Wilkerson was nearly as good as some of you think, he would of been drafted. He wasnt. IMO the only way he has a shot at making the team is if Braham isnt resigned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesperateDerelict Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 How can Adam Keift be a steal when nobody had heard of him, and he wasn't in any predraft mocks? A sleeper? Hopefully. A surprise - certainly! But a sleeper?I'd prefer Tab Perry (was he named after the soft drink?) or Fanene be listed as a steal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I think that a lot of us had heard of Adam Kieft.At least one site had him among the top 10 OTs in their ratings.Which was higher than Michael Munoz and way higher than they had Trai Essex rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGrizzlyBaer Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 How can Adam Keift be a steal when nobody had heard of him, and he wasn't in any predraft mocks? A sleeper? Hopefully. A surprise - certainly! But a sleeper?I'd prefer Tab Perry (was he named after the soft drink?) or Fanene be listed as a steal! i saw him on nfldraftcountdowns mock had him in the third round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Because Ghiaciuc is a good player, Wilkerson isnt.I agree that Ghiaciuc is a Good Player ...But just where the hell do you get the idea that Wilkerson isn't ?Ben Wilkerson has been a Very Good Player for YEARS ...2004: Despite missing the final three games of the 2004 season with a knee injury, Wilkerson was still named the co-recipient of the Rimington Trophy, which is given annually to the top center in college football...He was also named first-team All-American by the AFCA and The Sporting News, and second- team Walter Camp All-American during his senior campaign...Wilkerson allowed just two sacks in eight games in 2004, and in the process helped the LSU running game average over 200 yards per game...For his career, Wilkerson was a two-time first-team All-SEC selection (2003 & 2004) at LSU, which went 33-8 with him under center...Tremendous athlete with a lot of experience...Quick and agile for a big man...Makes good calls at the line. Solid in both run and pass protection...2003: One of the nation's top centers ... Named one of six finalists for the Rimington Award in 2003, which goes to college football's top center ... Named Second-Team All-America by the Sporting News and the Associated Press ... Named First-Team All-SEC at center by AP and ESPN.com ... Started all 14 games for the Tigers ... Saw action in 991 plays, the second-most of any player on the team ... Allowed only three sacks and called for just three penalties all year ... In 991 snaps, was marked down for just 10 bad snaps ... Went from week seven to the Sugar Bowl with only three bad snaps ... Had 13 pancakes and 87 knockdowns for the Tigers.2002: Started 10-of-13 games for the Tigers in 2002 ... Sat out the Cotton Bowl with a back injury ... Snapped on field goals and PATs as well ... Missed The Citadel and Miami (Ohio) games with a combination knee/ankle injury ... Extremely smart and gifted player ... Named to the SEC Good Works Team ... Played 620 snaps in 2002 and did not allow a sack all season ... Had only three bad snaps all year and was whistled for just three penalties.2001: True freshman who won the starting role at center for the Tigers ... Named Second-Team Freshman All-America by the Sporting News and earned Freshman All-SEC honors by both the AP and the Coaches ... Emerged as LSU’s starting center vs. Kentucky when injuries forced Rob Sale to move from center to right guard ... Played well enough to keep the position ... Started final nine games of the season for the Tigers, including the Sugar Bowl ... LSU posted an 8-1 mark with Wilkerson starting at center ... Also snapped on PAT and FG attempts ... In all, played in 11 games with nine starts.High School: Called by many as the top offensive line prospect in America ... Named All-American by Parade, USA Today, Rivals.com, Superprep, ESPN, and The Sporting News ... Rated as the No. 21 overall prospect in the nation by Tom Lemming of ESPN.com ... Recorded 121 pancake blocks as a senior and graded out at over 95 percent for the year ... Helped team averaged 399 rushing yards a contest and 9.2 yards per carry ... Listed as the No. 16 prep prospect according to SuperPrep ... Rated among Max Emfinger’s top 125 national prospects as well as the Dallas Morning News’ top 100 for the nation ... Member of Dave Campbell’s Texas Super Team ... Earned first team All-District, All-County and All-State honors ... Coached by Larry Upshaw.So tell me, just When did he Stop being a good player ???If he is healthy he will make the team ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Yeah, it's assinine to say Wilkerson isn't a good player or a solid pro prospect. The torn patella is the reason he wasn't drafted. Maybe there's some confusion here between Wilkerson and Vince Carter.PUP still seems the best route to go w/ Wilkerson if he's not deemed healthy enough by the start of training camp to give 100 percent. He would be, though, a candidate to cut if he's not placed on PUP. The knee injury to Larry Moore and the limbo of Rich Braham still cloud what will happen w/ Wilkerson at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 But just where the hell do you get the idea that Wilkerson isn't ? didn't you know? DontPushMe has a sixth sense when it comes to which players are going to be good in the NFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TippCityRick Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 How do you know Ghiaciuc will be our starting center? Wilkerson is much more expierenced than he is and will be given a long look. Wilkerson could play guard too, but I exxpect it to be a war for the the starting Center Spot.I look for Ghiaciuc to move to right guard and Wilkerson to be the future center. However I agree with schweinhart that Wilkerson will spend time on the PUP this year. It was a pretty serious injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcat Bengal Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 They just want to waste a roster spot on Wilkerson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoFever Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I'm still waiting for Don'tPushMe to turn this thread into an anti-Rudi discussion. The question is HOW.A proposal:Kieft and Ghiaciuc would be even bigger steals if they had a decent running back to run behind them. All of their pancake blocks will be in vain because Rudi will trip or not be able to see the hole that they have just created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I'm still waiting for Don'tPushMe to turn this thread into an anti-Rudi discussion. The question is HOW.A proposal:Kieft and Ghiaciuc would be even bigger steals if they had a decent running back to run behind them. All of their pancake blocks will be in vain because Rudi will trip or not be able to see the hole that they have just created. plus he's so slow the guy who got pancaked will have enough time to get up and tackle him anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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