Seahawks Sign Sharper

[HairOnFire]

I don't question Marvin's ability to fire players, or make his own draft day choices, or even to chase whatever FAs he wants. I'm sure that as far as "power" goes, he got more of it than any bengals coach since Paul Brown himself.

Damn, that Mike Brown guy is one control crazy bastidge, ehhh?

[schweinhart]

The Bengals had OVER $10 million in DEAD money last year.

Does that sound like Mike Brown`s doing ?

To you ...it must.

Like I said...oblivious to the obvious...

GD Brown Noser, pry thy face from the bung of Brown.

The Sharper op at the price was obviously a chance at a major move that had the best chance this off-season of boosting the Bengals defense into bonafide playoff contenders. It wouldn't have taken any creative contract structuring to save on the cap this year by signing Sharper and the potential of dividends for the move were well worth the low margin of risk.

[oldschooler]

The Bengals had OVER $10 million in DEAD money last year.

Does that sound like Mike Brown`s doing ?

To you ...it must. 

Like I said...oblivious to the obvious...

GD Brown Noser, pry thy face from the bung of Brown.

The Sharper op at the price was obviously a chance at a major move that had the best chance this off-season of boosting the Bengals defense into bonafide playoff contenders. It wouldn't have taken any creative contract structuring to save on the cap this year by signing Sharper and the potential of dividends for the move were well worth the low margin of risk.

Hey moron.. I wasn`t talking to YOU.

And Mike Brown hasn`t done anything wrong for OVER 2 YEARS !

Why don`t you f**kheads aknowledge FACTS and quit living in the

PAST ?

I said this already....If Marvin Lewis would have thought

Sharper was worth MORE than what they offered...he WOULD

have gotten him....BELIEVE THAT !

Why are all good moves made by Marvin or Katie Blackburn...

But all bad (or unpopular) moves are made by Mike Brown ?

[HairOnFire]

But the rub lies in that bit about "conform[ing] to the way the Bengals prefer to do business." Marvin can choose to pursue any FA he wants...but the best FAs are going to require a level of contract creativity that those bengals' business practices preclude.

Sorry, I have to reject the idea that the Bengals have to sign every free agent they pursue at all costs. And that's especially true in examples where the Bengals level of interest was always measured.

As for creativity, the Bengals managed to defy common opinion by re-signing both Rudi and TJ. Added a DT, too. Granted, that DT wasn't some guy another team had franchised tagged, but those sort of things aren't part of my FA fantasies.

And last, they were a major player in the pursuit of Sharper despite the fact that YOU felt they were completely done in FA after Rudi was re-signed.

[schweinhart]

Hey moron.. I wasn`t talking to YOU.

And Mike Brown hasn`t done anything wrong for OVER 2 YEARS !

Why don`t you f**kheads aknowledge FACTS and quit living in the

PAST ?

I said this already....If Marvin Lewis would have thought

Sharper was worth MORE than what they offered...he WOULD

have gotten him....BELIEVE THAT !

Why are all good moves made by Marvin or Katie Blackburn...

But all bad (or unpopular) moves are made by Mike Brown ?

Well

You don't need to be talking to me Brown Noser. I'm more than happy to go outta my way just to clip the wings of a jacka$$ in flight

As for Mike Brown, it's hard not to suspect an habitual offender even after 2 whole years of no incidents

As for ML not thinking Sharper was worth the price or that he has carte blanche to sign who he wants w/o the Brown Clan over his shoulder......Think again.

[oldschooler]

Hey moron.. I wasn`t talking to YOU.  

And Mike Brown hasn`t done anything wrong for OVER 2 YEARS !

Why don`t you f**kheads aknowledge FACTS and quit living in the

PAST ?

I said this already....If Marvin Lewis would have thought

Sharper was worth MORE than what they offered...he WOULD

have gotten him....BELIEVE THAT !

Why are all good moves made by Marvin or Katie Blackburn...

But all bad (or unpopular) moves are made by Mike Brown ? 

Well

You don't need to be talking to me Brown Noser. I'm more than happy to go outta my way just to clip the wings of a jacka$$ in flight

As for Mike Brown, it's hard not to suspect an habitual offender even after 2 whole years of no incidents

As for ML not thinking Sharper was worth the price or that he has carte blanche to sign who he wants w/o the Brown Clan over his shoulder......Think again.

Look...I wished they would have signed Sharper too.

But they didn`t ...despite Marvin having an off the field

relatioship with him. Marvin knows more about Sharper

and HIS team than all of us combined.

I wasn`t pinning ALL of my hopes for our entire season

on the signing of Sharper. And obviously Marvin wasn`t either.

But it sure looks like you were...

And as far as being a Brown noser ...I have never met Mike Brown...

have YOU ?

I`m just stating facts...was Mike Brown shown how to run the Bengals from

Paul Brown ? YES

Did he hire 4 coaches in 12 years ? YES

For every "bad" draft pick was there any "good" draft picks ? YES

Did he had the reigns over to Marvin ? YES

SO please STFU now.

[HairOnFire]

As for ML not thinking Sharper was worth the price or that he has carte blanche to sign who he wants w/o the Brown Clan over his shoulder......Think again.

My source tells me that Marvin Lewis has more power and control than any Bengal coach since Paul Brown. That'll do.

[schweinhart]

As for ML not thinking Sharper was worth the price or that he has carte blanche to sign who he wants w/o the Brown Clan over his shoulder......Think again.

My source tells me that Marvin Lewis has more power and control than any Bengal coach since Paul Brown. That'll do.

No doubt and it will do. But ML don't own the team.

If I can give 1 bone to chew, it would be this:

ML has shown a tendency to overestimate the expectations of the front 7 defensive players he signs or drafts at the expense of actually solidifying the defense into a playoff contender.

Bryan Robinson looks like caulk to fill a gash to me but we'll see.

Sharper looked like a real short-term fix to boost the D in 2005. But we'll never know.

[jamesbrooks21]

I know Kirk but something just doesn't seem right. We pulled back or went low for some reason.

Exactly. With the way Marvin has handled things I'm not going to worry about it. People were bitching this time last year when Sapp got away. Aren't we glad he did? Sharper would have been an upgrade BUT imo he isn't the saviour some of you think he would be. Like what was said though there is a cheaper option in the draft, not to mention we have some very good young ones. Don't base an opinion on their rookie years they will be much improved this year.

[Whur CHad At?]

Well then if he cared about this team he would stop taking those huge contract extensions after every season and spend it on the team. He has terrible power if he can't bring these guys in. We expected to bring these guys in because Marvin would be a huge attraction but obviously he isnt. We better have a good season, or I am going to start to question ML. He will be on the Hot Seat in 2006.

[oldschooler]

Well then if he cared about this team he would stop taking those huge contract extensions after every season and spend it on the team. He has terrible power if he can't bring these guys in. We expected to bring these guys in because Marvin would be a huge attraction but obviously he isnt. We better have a good season, or I am going to start to question ML. He will be on the Hot Seat in 2006.

Do you actually think that coaches salaries count against the

salary cap ?

[Whur CHad At?]

NO, but he is being Selfish...only thinking bout himself

Its funny, we wouldn't match $1.5 mill bonus $17.5 mill for Sharper, but we Give ML $5 mill. His COntract is what Exceeding $20 mill? Thats a lot that you should be investing in your team, worry about the coach toward the end of his contract like every other normal team does.

[Kirkendall]

Its funny, we wouldn't match $1.5 mill bonus $17.5 mill  for Sharper, but we Give ML $5 mill.  His COntract is what Exceeding $20 mill?  Thats a lot that you should be investing in your team, worry about the coach toward the end of his contract like every other normal team does.

In all fairness, we don't know the Bengals offer nor specifics to why Sharper choose Seattle nor do we know the Bengals draft plans. So to truly think this is about money is a little quick to the gun -- and unsupported.

(and yes, I've relaxed a bit and thinking rationally again)

Billy, the hampster pooper scooper has cleaned the cage.

[cover2]

When you are talking about the Brown family it's always about the money. The amount of new FA this club has brought in has been paltry.

Where would you rank the Bengals in terms of bringing in FA????

[HoosierCat]

Sorry, I have to reject the idea that the Bengals have to sign every free agent they pursue at all costs.

Well, that's great. So do I. Where was I talking about signing every free agent they pursue at all costs? Oh, right, that was the putting-words-in-my-mouth thing again. Very entertaining.

This isn't about signing every free agent at all costs, it's about the impact of the bengals' way of doing business on Marvin's chances of signing FAs.

For the vast majority of deals it isn't an issue; most contracts signed in the league every year would be fine by the bengals. No team passes out backloaded deals, guaranteed bonuses, etc. as a matter of course. It's only when you're talking about signing the upper echelon of players that it happens. Most teams will make exception, change their way of doing business, get creative, whatever you want to call it, for specific players. Not so the bengals, who refuse categorically to do anything other than their preferred kind of deal.

Well, heck, that's their right...their team, their money, they can do what they want. But that approach has practical consequences, which can be seen in all their glory in the Sharper case. Any time there's a "big fish" on the line, Marvin enters the fray at a disadvantage because of the front office's "no creativity" policy. And so far it's been their downfall every time.

[HoTbOy]

Boy I see this is a very heated discussion here, I thought for sure that Marvin would attract more FA's when he came. I definitely thought we had Sharper, It would seem that our coaches had an inside track on FA's. When Frasier was our D-coordinator everyone thought we would get Vincent or Taylor and neither signed. We thought Marvin had the inside track on Sharper, so you have to wonder are we the same old Bengals who are lowballing these guys, or did they really want to play elsewhere. You know winning will cure all of this when you win games and you are the darling of the NFL people will play for less money.(NEW ENGLAND).

[bengalboomer7]

I didn't bother to read the whole thread, so Sorry if I'm repeating something. Just blame it on my sincere lack of any motivations to do so.

What I'm going to say will shock no one I don't think. NO ONE is going to make the Bengals a viable option in FA until we win something. Most of the time, but not all that veteran will go where he has the best chance to win. Usually, guys that are over 30 want to play for a team that can give them a chance to win the big one. In all honesty, Seattle is farther along in their process than the Bengals and maybe(pure speculation here) Sharper thought the hawks gave him the best chance for the playoffs.

I know I sound like Mr. Obvious right now, but I think that until Marvin can take us to the elite group of playoff contenders we will get nothing more than a visit for a free meal from some of the bigger name free agents.

Once Marvin proves he can turn this franchise around 180 degrees, I think we'll be able to reel in guys easier.

And why is it that when the Pats sign a player for cheap they are commended for team chemistry and all that junk but we low ball a guy for cap reasons and we're cheap all over again.

I thought a lot of people commended the Bengals for being firm in their offer, then he chooses the hags and everybody starts talking like we're cheap and wouldn't pony up the money I just don't get that one

[HairOnFire]

No team passes out backloaded deals, guaranteed bonuses, etc. as a matter of course. It's only when you're talking about signing the upper echelon of players that it happens. Most teams will make exception, change their way of doing business, get creative, whatever you want to call it, for specific players. Not so the bengals, who refuse categorically to do anything other than their preferred kind of deal.

Yeah, I get ALL of that. I really do. Where you lose me is the idea that Marvin Lewis couldn't have been the person who decided that Sharper was that specific player who dictated that all creative stops had to be pulled. Sheesh, I pulled for the signing as hard as anyone but never considered Sharper to be a must have player who would put this defense over the top. Did you?

And again, the Bengals offer was finally rejected but it was attractive enough to nearly get the job done according to Sharpers agent. That can't be discounted. Not when you're on record claiming that the Bengals were done in free agency after Rudi re-signed. How flexible do you think they could be?

No argument, the Bengals could have massaged things a bit by cutting this guy, doubling the signing bonus, added phantom years and shadow dollars, or any number of other things, but apparently they didn't. And who knows if I would have liked what they were willing to do, let alone what it would have taken to get the job done.

Seriously, who knows?

That said, I can't bring myself to say with any level of certainty that the reason they didn't get more creative is because Mike Brown stepped in and hamstringed the desires of his coach. No, as disappointed as I am I can't discount the idea that Marvin was the one who said..."That's enough."

[HoosierCat]

No argument, the Bengals could have massaged things a bit by cutting this guy, doubling the signing bonus, added phantom years and shadow dollars, or any number of other things, but apparently they didn't.

Yup. They could have...but didn't.

And in all the history of the team since FA started, Marvin or no, they haven't.

All they have to do to prove you right and me wrong is...one deal. Just one.

This is Marvin's third offseason, third run through FA. Been plenty of FAs at positions we need help who've changed teams and made a difference. Been plenty that have changed teams and flopped, too. I'll be happy either way. Just take the shot.

Once.

In the meantime...the beat goes on...

[cincy9275]

i was peeved yesterday but i am over it. time to move on

[HairOnFire]

All they have to do to prove you right and me wrong is...one deal. Just one.

Wouldn't prove anything. At least not what you're claiming, that Mike Brown keeps cutting Marvin off at the knees....forcing him to swallow his bitter complaints in some pathetic display of insincere subordination.

Look, there was no way this team was going to sign a top shelf FA prior to Marvins arrival for many reasons, but largely due to the won/loss record. While things have changed for the better on that score, the team no longer bleeds it's own talent each offseason, the end results and team image haven't improved enough to attract the type of talent you're talking about. We're not even seeing them, right? Almost all of the name players who have stopped by for a cup of coffee since Marvin arrived have largely been older declining players looking for a last contract. Add to the mix the fact that prime time games are almost unheard of...thank you very much NFL...making this small market team about as low profile as any in the NFL. And last, at the risk of sounding like the tubby thumper the city isn't a selling point for free agents with multiple options.

Instead of asking why this team can't sign many of the free agents it's shown some interest in...well...isn't the better question related to what has to be done to get serious visits from players worth tweaking the system for? Things like more victories and a playoff berth or two.

Do those things and I think you'll get the type of signing you're craving.

[HairOnFire]

time to move on

I agree. I've said my bit well enough to get my opinion known. To continue would simply be a pointless exercise in feeding the beast, stoking the furnace, picking at scars, and rubbing salt in open wounds. Move on indeed.

Vote for Pedro?

[jjakq27]

Last post on this topic for me.

I would love to have gotten Sharper. The guy is certainly a good player. However, something occurred to me last night. Is there a reason why he is on his third team? Was he not left unprotected by Baltimore for the expansion draft of the Texans? In essence he was cut because the Ravens were dumping salaries at that time. Then he was cut by that same expansion team three years later due to cap considerations.

My translation is that maybe the guy is just not worth the money he keeps getting paid.

[HoosierCat]

Last post on this topic for me.

Me, too. Hair seems to be doing fine making things up, putting them in my mouth and then arguing with them. But I don't really need to be around in that case, do I?

[HairOnFire]

Last post on this topic for me.

Me, too. Hair seems to be doing fine making things up, putting them in my mouth and then arguing with them. But I don't really need to be around in that case, do I?

Blah, blah, blah.

Face it, as of late you've been whining worse than that guy who started the thread about the Bengals being the biggest joke in free agency. In your eyes the Bengals start free agency each season with an F and work up from there. And apparently the idea of keeping talent counts for very little, ehh? Gotta have new faces or we're...(dramatic pause)....DOOMED.

Moving on, you claimed the Bengals had ZERO chance to sign Sharper because..."Oh my gawd, eight teams are interested." Count 'em, eight teams! Blah, blah, blah. Never mind the fact that the Bengals were in it until the bitter end...they never had a chance from the start. DOOMED I SAY!!!

And last but certainly not least, Marvin is now swallowing his complaints because he doesn't want to be seen as a hard to control coach when trolling for his next job. Cue the sad music.....'cause we're DOOMED!

Better yet, zoom in on Marvins eyes as he keeps glancing towards the exits. Then cue the laugh track...'cause that's some funny chid.

Vote for Pedro.

As for putting words in your mouth, it's not my fault that we're engaged in a silly debate where one side feels the absence of proof is considered all the proof required to know with certainty what's going on inside of Marvins head. No kidding, that kind of thing puts a rational person like me at a disadvantage. Regardless, I say pick your favorite. Neutered pup. Lapdog. Corporate suckup. Good soldier. I just don't see it.

And neither do you. "More power than any head coach since Paul Brown."

Again, cheer up. Have another beer. Send me the bill.

Because it's still raining in Joisey.