NFL.coms take on the Rudi situation

[bengalboomer7]

You get the right to match any offer any other team makes with the transition tag. Like I said in an earlier post, with all the big name free agents, a very solid RB draft, and a couple of intriguing trades the market would have been pretty small for Rudi and it would have been hard for him to find the kind of deal he's looking for with all the other cheaper options out there IF any other team made him any kind of offer we could easliy match it, and if he found his "megadeal" somewhere else, we would (crossing fingers here) have had Perry as insurance. It wuld have gave the bengals more bargaining power to get a cap friendly deal done, especially if no other team bit on him, which I thought was pretty likely.

I hope you can tell me how a team can make an incentive based offer (which it sounds like you are talking about) that the bengals couldn't match. The only dangerous contract offer another team could make is one with a lot of gauranteed money

[HoosierCat]

Any way that this pans out, the Bengals made the right move ...

I don't know if I'd call it the right move. It may well have been their only move, a view that your comments suggest you hold.

There are downsides to the tag, about 6.3 million of them. There appears to be broad agreement that Rudi isn't worth that. And that number cuts our reported $14 million in cap space nearly in half. Toss in Braham, tendering our RFAs, and the rookie pool, and we've got about $2 million to play with in FA, i.e. nothing. And yes, we could cut some guys (Hardy, Reggie Kelley, etc), restructure Willie, and all that, but that would only free up another $5 million or so. Enough for one medium-to-large deal or a couple second-tier signings. (Or more likely, knowing standard Mikey operating procedure, simply provides a cushion to sign guys to replace the injured.)

Tagging Rudi almost certainly means saying goodbye to Housh. I remain unconvinced that that's a good thing.

And even if the Bengals reach a more appropriate long-term figure, say in the $4-5 million range, that will still mark yet another big-bucks contract on the offensive side on the ball, while the D goes begging.

Still...they had little choice except to use a tag, transition or franchise, and that's because they lost the bet they made last year when they held off on a long-term deal with Rudi and drafted Perry. They were betting that Perry would make an impact that would, at best, make Rudi expendable, and at least put pressure on him to lower his asking price.

Now they've bought themselves the worst of all possible worlds: Perry remains a mystery. Rudi is more expensive than he would have been last year, will be more expensive than last year this year, and if they don't reach a long-term agreement this year, his price will only be higher next offseason.

I agree with Hobson in his letter column: were I Rudi I would have signed the franchise tender the minute it came across the fax. Yes, it eliminates the possibility of the Bengals choosing the remove the tag (and making Rudi a UFA) in order to sign someone else, but that was highly unlikely anyway. And by making the money "unremovable" Rudi would force the Bengals into decision mode if they wanted to play seriously in FA: either they pay the unwieldy $6.3 million, come up on their long-term offer, or trade him.

[JPW]

You get the right to match any offer any other team makes with the transition tag.  Like I said in an earlier post, with all the big name free agents, a very solid RB draft, and a couple of intriguing trades the market would have been pretty small for Rudi and it would have been hard for him to find the kind of deal he's looking for with all the other cheaper options out there  IF any other team made him any kind of offer we could easliy match it, and if he found his "megadeal" somewhere else, we would (crossing fingers here) have had Perry as insurance.  It wuld have gave the bengals more bargaining power to get a cap friendly deal done, especially if no other team bit on him, which I thought was pretty likely.

I hope you can tell me how a team can make an incentive based offer (which it sounds like you are talking about) that the bengals couldn't match.  The only dangerous contract offer another team could make is one with a lot of gauranteed money

I don't remember the specifies of the Takeo Spikes deal, but we were unable to match it.

Every team's situation is different and what works well for one team may not work at all for another.

There is no way to know in advance what every possible contract offer may contain.

But one thing that you can be sure of is that, if another team is looking to sign a player away from you, they will be looking hard and long to structure it in a way that you can not match.

There is a reason that teams rarely go with the transition tag, if they still have their franchise tag unused.

The right to match any other offer sounds great.

But often times it ends up not being as simple as it sounds, and teams can and do lose players with no value in return.

That is why teams shy away from using it.

The tender offer for the franchise tag is what, about 1 million more than the transition tag ?

That is 1 million more out of a total cap space of about 85 million and that is only if you actually have to pay that offer.

I think that it is well worth it when you consider the greater protection that it gives the team.

First of all, you can still sign him to a long term deal.

You can still trade him to another team, if they willing to work a deal with him and with you.

If all else fails, you can actually pay him the amount of the tender offer and have him on the team for another year.

Hell, you can even remove the tag at some point if that would be in the best interest of the team.

But what can't happen is; another team signing him against your will with no value in return, due to an offer that you can't realistic match.

BTW, just going by what I have read at other team's fan sites, it seems that there were a number of teams interested in Rudi.

One Miami fan even came here and made a post asking about Rudi, because his team had him "targeted" in FA.

[bengalboomer7]

They didn't match the Spikes deal because he didn't want to play here so marvin let him go, it wasn't because of the contract Buffalo offered. I believe both Marvin and Takeo have been quoted to that extent. And when it comes down to signign some D that 1mill or so will be vital!. I'm just saying that it gave the Bengals more leverage. As it stands now they have basically given all the steam to Rudi by admitting what we have debated for months now, that he is worth top five money! If any other team like Miami came after him we could match it and if they want to throw out a gaudy number and screw up their cap I say "See ya, Rudi" and use the six mill to get me some D. The whole point of it is that the transition tag would have gave the bengals more options and all the leverage in the matter

[JPW]

They didn't match the Spikes deal because he didn't want to play here so marvin let him go, it wasn't because of the contract Buffalo offered.  I believe both Marvin and Takeo have been quoted to that extent.  And when it comes down to signign some D that 1mill or so will be vital!.  I'm just saying that it gave the Bengals more leverage.  As it stands now they have basically given all the steam to Rudi by admitting what we have debated for months now, that he is worth top five money!  If any other team like Miami came after him we could match it and if they want to throw out a gaudy number and screw up their cap I say "See ya, Rudi" and use the six mill to get me some D.  The whole point of it is that the transition tag would have gave the bengals more options and all the leverage in the matter

Well we will just have to disagree on this.

It seems clear to me that the transition tag would have left the team with less leverage.

And I hardly see a possible situation, where we would have to say "See Ya Rudi" because we couldn't/wouldn't match someone else's offer, as an additional option being gained.

As a matter of fact we could still do that, at least as long as the tender offer isn't signed, and yet the way that is stands now there is no way that we would have to do it.

[JPW]

Geoff Hobson writes an article concerning this over at Bengals.com ...

Thinking and believing

[Dewboy01]

Maybe so.  The way I heard or understand it is if he signs the francise offer he doesn't get any of the money until week 1 of the season. 

The only thing "guaranteed" is if he signs a long term contract and he gets that bonus money up front.

You are correct in that he won't get paid any of the "franchise money" until the season gets here. Thats ok, since no players are paid during the offseason...they get paid during the season...thats when they "work", so thats nothing out of the ordinary......however once Rudi signs the franchise tender, he is absolutely guaranteed 6.3 million for the year, no matter what, unless of course he retires or actually follows thru on his threat to sit out.

[jjakq27]

Maybe so.  The way I heard or understand it is if he signs the francise offer he doesn't get any of the money until week 1 of the season. 

The only thing "guaranteed" is if he signs a long term contract and he gets that bonus money up front.

You are correct in that he won't get paid any of the "franchise money" until the season gets here. Thats ok, since no players are paid during the offseason...they get paid during the season...thats when they "work", so thats nothing out of the ordinary......however once Rudi signs the franchise tender, he is absolutely guaranteed 6.3 million for the year, no matter what, unless of course he retires or actually follows thru on his threat to sit out.

I thought they got the signing bonus money right away on a long term deal versus signing the franchise contract, thus the difference.

[HoosierCat]

I thought they got the signing bonus money right away on a long term deal versus signing the franchise contract, thus the difference.

I don't believe the franchise tender is guaranteed money, but dewboy could be right. As I understand it, the tag guarantees Rudi a $6.3 million tender offer, but that tender itself represents salary, which is not normally guaranteed. So were he to sign it and then, say, get cut in training camp (which wouldn't happen, I'm just supposing) the Bengals would regain $6 million in cap space.

[jjakq27]

I thought they got the signing bonus money right away on a long term deal versus signing the franchise contract, thus the difference.

I don't believe the franchise tender is guaranteed money, but dewboy could be right. As I understand it, the tag guarantees Rudi a $6.3 million tender offer, but that tender itself represents salary, which is not normally guaranteed. So were he to sign it and then, say, get cut in training camp (which wouldn't happen, I'm just supposing) the Bengals would regain $6 million in cap space.

Right Joisey. I have heard the same thing. My point was that the signing bonus is money that he would/should get right away versus waiting until that first paychcek in September. But I have heard that if he gets injured or cut, the franchise money is not guaranteed.

I am guessing that Rudi is being co-erced by Mr. Shaeffer into holding out for a bigger bonus since he keeps crying that they are asking for below the $6.3 franchise figure. Stay tuned!

[HoosierCat]

I am guessing that Rudi is being co-erced by Mr. Shaeffer into holding out for a bigger bonus since he keeps crying that they are asking for below the $6.3 franchise figure. Stay tuned!

Could be. And the Bengals could be balking since the bonus can only be stretched over 5 years this year. At this point, tho, Rudi has no real incentive to sign a deal that isn't exactly what he wants; he's got $6 million in his hip pocket and the pressure is all on the Bengals to do something to lower that cap number.

Another factor in his thinking may be that the Bengals have a long history of caving in. How many times have we watched draft picks hold out, miss camp, miss games, and finally be given what they asked for back in May? Justin Smith and the whole two-tiered signing bonus fiasco comes to mind. They eventually sweetened offers to Dillon and Pickens, too. If history is any guide, Rudi's current demands will be met -- sometime around August.

I've always suspected that that was a deliberate strategy on the part of Mikey and the front office to save money (in otherwords, be cheapskates). By tussling over deals with picks or a tagged FA, they can cry poverty and avoid spending in FA.