Why Draft a DL

[#85MVP]

There are A LOT of 1st round defensive lineman that have not lived up to expected.

Here is a list

-Jonathan Sullivan 6th overall Saints 2003

-Jimmy Kennedy 12th overall Rams 2003

-Calvin Pace 18th overall Cardinals 2003

-William Joseph 25th overall Giants 2003

-Wendall Bryant 12th overall Cardinals 2002

-Brian Thomas 22nd overall Jets 2002

-Jamal Reynolds 10th overall Packers 2001

-Damione Lewis 12th overall Rams 2001

-Ryan Pickett 29th overall Rams 2001

taking d-line in the first round is a big gamble. Linebacking in the first round has been consistently good

-Jonathan Vilma 12th overall Jets2004

-DJ Williams 17th overall Broncos 2004

-Terrell Suggs 10th overal Ravens 2003

-Nick Barnett 29th overall Packers 2003

-Napoleon Harris 23rd overall Raiders 2002

-Dan Morgan 11th overall Panthers2001

* only other 1st round LB since 2001-Robert Thomas 29th overall St.Louis 2001

if we draft a LB we can cut Hardy. In 1996 the Ravens drafted Ray Lewis with their 26th pick, when Marvin Lewis was their defensive coordinator

[#85MVP]

Lets get a guy who we'd know would be a good player.

These DL are all potential free agents

Pat Williams-Bills

Corey Simon-Eagles

Chris Hovan-Vikings

Shaun Rogers-Lions

Shaun Ellis-Jets

John Abraham-Jets

Darren Howard-Saints

[BersMrnsT]

You make a good point about the number of stud LB's compared to the number of dud DT's that've been drafted in the first round. But there are a few problems with your suggestions. The first is that there are really only two LB's worth taking in the first round. One is Derrick Johnson, and he'll almost definitely be gone by 17. The other is Channing Crowder, and while I guess he's an option, it just doesn't seem like a good pick up at 17.

As for the list of FA DL, it really isn't that great. The cream of the crop, Shaun Rogers, already signed a 5 year contract with the Lions. Chris Hovan sucks, Shaun Ellis also re-signed, Corey Simon's good but overrated IMO, and Pat Williams is old. If they could get him cheap enough, I'd say Jason Ferguson would be the most worthwhile DL as far as FA goes. I'd be ecstatic if we could get his teammate, John Abraham, but that seems to be more of a pipe dream because even if he isn't franchised, he'll be quite pricey.

[schweinhart]

You make a good point about the number of stud LB's compared to the number of dud DT's that've been drafted in the first round. But there are a few problems with your suggestions. The first is that there are really only two LB's worth taking in the first round. One is Derrick Johnson, and he'll almost definitely be gone by 17. The other is Channing Crowder, and while I guess he's an option, it just doesn't seem like a good pick up at 17.

Yeah Bengals proly should wait for LB until 2nd or 3rd or even 4th and take a look at players like Michael Boley (if not already gone by 2nd pick), Kirk Morrison, Leroy Hill, Lofa Tatupu, and Trent Cole.

[BengalPappaw]

I've not seen any DT that are worth wasting a first round draft pick on. There are some DE that might be good pick. I really like David Pollack -- if the Bengals stay at 17.

If they trade down -- there are a couple of LBs -- Barrett Ruud, Kirk Morrison, and Odell Thurman who could add quality to the Bengals in second round.

I'd still like to see a good "strong" safety who can be a "Marvin" safety and play the pass as well -- James Butler did have a INT in the Senior Bowl and I still like Jammal Brimmer.

[#85MVP]

i think crowder is extremely underrated because of his inexpireince. he has all the ability. and johnson will definetly not fall to #17. shawne merriman reminds me of a terrel suggs type known for his pass rushing ability. his scouting report http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...nemerriman.html

[HoosierCat]

Certainly, DL, and specifically DT, is a high-risk position to draft early. There was one story posted here a few weeks back that held the chances of a first-round bust at DT greater than those of taking a first-round QB. And Marvin Lewis is on record as saying that he doesn't believe rookies are ready to start in year one -- which means if he's serious about getting some immediate improvement on the DL, FA is what he's talking about.

That said, you have to build through the draft, and there will absolutely, positively, no-doubt-about-it be a stud DL prospect available at 17. Johnson, James, Pollack, Cody, Hawthorne, Spears...someone will be there if Marvin wants to build for the future.

[#85MVP]

we need a run-stuffer, especailly with more 3-4 play, James, Pollack, Cody,and Spears are all pass rushers which we have in Smith, Geathers, and Clemons. The top pure run-stuffers in the draft are

-Ronald Fields Mississippi

-Jason Jefferson Wisconsin

-Sione Pouha Utah

we can get one of these guys in rounds 3-5. i like FA Pat Williams-Bills, i know he is old but by the time he reitres our young d-line will be developed

[Bobcat Bengal]

. And Marvin Lewis is on record as saying that he doesn't believe rookies are ready to start in year one -- which means if he's serious about getting some immediate improvement on the DL, FA is what he's talking about.

That said, you have to build through the draft, and there will absolutely, positively, no-doubt-about-it be a stud DL prospect available at 17. Johnson, James, Pollack, Cody, Hawthorne, Spears...someone will be there if Marvin wants to build for the future.

He must mean rookie D-Lineman, because Madieu started the first game of the year and continued throughout the season.

[HoosierCat]

He must mean rookie D-Lineman, because Madieu started the first game of the year and continued throughout the season.

He started because of injury, at corner, to Deltha O'Neal (and got abused, proving Marvin's point). He got more playing time thanks to Rogers Beckett not being able to stay on the field...also due to injury. It worked out fairly well in the end, but starting Madieu was not the plan going into the seasom.

[chrishcovga]

There are A LOT of 1st round defensive lineman that have not lived up to expected.

Here is a list

-Jonathan Sullivan 6th overall Saints 2003

-Jimmy Kennedy 12th overall Rams 2003

-Calvin Pace 18th overall Cardinals 2003

-William Joseph 25th overall Giants 2003

-Wendall Bryant 12th overall Cardinals 2002

-Brian Thomas 22nd overall Jets 2002

-Jamal Reynolds 10th overall Packers 2001

-Damione Lewis 12th overall Rams 2001

-Ryan Pickett 29th overall Rams 2001

taking d-line in the first round is a big gamble. Linebacking in the first round has been consistently good

-Jonathan Vilma 12th overall Jets2004

-DJ Williams 17th overall Broncos 2004

-Terrell Suggs 10th overal Ravens 2003

-Nick Barnett 29th overall Packers 2003

-Napoleon Harris 23rd overall Raiders 2002

-Dan Morgan 11th overall Panthers2001

* only other 1st round LB since 2001-Robert Thomas 29th overall St.Louis 2001

if we draft a LB we can cut Hardy. In 1996 the Ravens drafted Ray Lewis with their 26th pick, when Marvin Lewis was their defensive coordinator

I'll agree and I'll disagree. Mostly because of the players you have named here.

Proper scouting should have prevented most of these players from even going in the first round.

Damione Lewis didn't carry a grade higher than a 2nd rounder. Ryan Pickett was a super reach, because he wasn't even considered to be a day one prospect. But then again, it was Mike Martz drafting them, so I can't put these players in the " bust " category. More like the stupid person running the team category we watched for years here in Cincy. Jimmy Kennedy actually plays pretty well, but his injuries have hurt him. We'll keep an eye out for him.

Pace was a serious reach as well. AS a matter of fact, The cards draft of '03 should have been flushed as soon as it took place. Taking Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace in round 1.. ?

Jamal Reynolds was drafted that high off of his Florida St. hype. Anyone remember Corey Moore De, from Virginia Tech..?? Stupid Packers..! Bryan Thomas was more of a Lb/DE so if there's any player to single out as a true Bust for where he was drafted according to his grade would have been

Wendell Bryant DT, Wisconsin. Bryant had good size,quickness, production, and coachability. He played well during the post season bowls, and really shined at times during the combine. - But considering that he plays for the Arizona Cardinals, , I could see how discouraging his play may have turned out to be.

[#85MVP]

Wendell Bryant DT, Wisconsin. Bryant had good size,quickness, production, and coachability. He played well during the post season bowls, and really shined at times during the combine. - But considering that he plays for the Arizona Cardinals,  , I could see how discouraging his play may have turned out to be.

just because hes on the cardinals doesnt mean he cant succeed as a player. look at bertrand berry, 14.5 sacks and a pro bowl invite. wendell bryant was a huge bust, now he has russel davis and darnell dockett starting over him.

i am excited about the bengals future mainly b/c how marvin wants to build his team through drafts. and he has prooven he knows who to draft by the baltimore ravens defense (he was d-coordinator). he drafted and coached ray lewis, peter boulware, jamie sharper, chris mcaslister, and gary baxter. we have our offense set, i want to see a GREAT defense in the future.