walzav29 Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Here is something I read from Peter King today, and here was a quote from someone,"New England's by far the tougher team than Indianapolis, mentally and physically. It showed in their game. The Patriots have about five guys who will take you by the throat, throttle you and absolutely not accept losing. I don't think the Colts have one. They better find a few of those, or they'll always lose those kind of games."I believe that Takeo was one of these kid of guys. I don't blame Marvin for getting rid of him. (If you don't want to be on the team, then beat it), but do the Bengal's have a grab the throat kind of guy? If so who is it? Who is out there? We need a couple of those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I noticed the same thing King did.I watched Colts defenders help Patriots players up after a few plays,or just touching them down if they were already down on the groundOn the other side,I watched Rodney Harrison and a few other Pats defenders HIT guys that were on the ground.For the Bengals,Madieu,Kiewan and Landon seem to fit this mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubThumper Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 This is what I question in the Bengals after the Buffalo game. The team has a lot of character, but I think it lacks 1 to a handful of this kind of guy that makes the difference between teams that lose big games they can win and teams that win them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubThumper Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I noticed the same thing King did.I watched Colts defenders help Patriots players up after a few plays,or just touching them down if they were already down on the groundOn the other side,I watched Rodney Harrison and a few other Pats defenders HIT guys that were on the ground.For the Bengals,Madieu,Kiewan and Landon seem to fit this mold. That's the main problem with the Bengals - it's the kids and the waiver-wire guys like Marcus Wilkins that bring this attitude to the team. Where are the vets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I think this is another thing we were looking for from Nate Webster. I for one hopes he comes back a little healthier and nasty as hell !!!WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Stripes Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 nate was suppose to be this type of guy he was going to be the face of this defense and i believe he still will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I forgot all about that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontPushMe Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 maybe kevin hardy? he was the guy who was supposed to replace takeo spikes wasnt he? another genius free agent move right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubThumper Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 nate was suppose to be this type of guy he was going to be the face of this defense and i believe he still will be. I agree - as long as the knee recovers properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Justin Smith has the attitude, but not really his fault he can't show it it when the other team is running it down our throats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'm kinda worried about Nate, I think he might be just a little too small to take the pounding for a full season. Of course, he's no bigger than ray ray but no one will ever confuse Nate for Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'm kinda worried about Nate, I think he might be just a little too small to take the pounding for a full season. Of course, he's no bigger than ray ray but no one will ever confuse Nate for Ray. It's another one of those situations where if we have someone (anyone) in front of him to keep him free, he's going to be a force. No one to help out equals status quo and mediocrity once again. We NEED D-line help !!!WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Reggie Myles has that attitude. Unfortunately, he's a ST player who is just not quite good enough to crack the secondary. I think Rogers Beckett is that type of hitter, but I don't know if he's an in-your-face guy. I definitely saw that kind of attitude from Madieu this year though. Man, for a rookie that guy really brings it. I am very much looking forward to him further asserting himself next year. It's true that our good veterans like Brian Simmons are just not the vocal types. Contrary to some qualities though -- I think you can draft attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Kiewan Ratliff is the hardest hitter pound for pound on the Bengals imo. Remember the hit he put on Hines Ward? Held him to 15yards that game after that too.. As far as Webster goes, I think the starting job at MLB is still between Nate and Caleb Miller IF Miller comes into camp heavier.. I expect him to be around 235 this year. He has the frame to add weight and still maintain his speed... I think Nate has the upper hand right now but it may be interesting to watch them battle for the starting postition.. Marvin loves competition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Are you assuming Landon moves to the outside for Hardy? If so, I agree. If they keep Hardy on the field, I think Landon and Webster will go at it in camp for the spot with Miller backing-up at all 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 OK, I'm confused. Is this toughest guy in terms of NFL success, hardest hitter, or just the base of the meaning -- all of which construct different debates and arguments? In terms of raw toughness, as turningpoint mentioned, then Justin Smith is my guy. That guy doesn't miss many snaps, if any, and he routinely makes tackles with one arm. The dudes a horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Im assuming that Landon Johnson will indeed move to Hardy's spot as a starter next season.. I don't have to look at stats to discern that Hardy's best days are behind him now and Johnson would be the ideal candidate for that spot. I lilke the idea of Webster and MIller competing for the middle spot.. It will bring out the best in both of them....As far as toughness goes Willie Anderson....hitters...Ratliff....meaness..Justin Smith...imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 I think it would be hard to find a guy who's tougher than one who has surgery and then plays in the same week anyway. Don't care it it WAS arthroscopic ( sp ? ) ...... that s**t hurts and THAT is a Tough Man. :player: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 ok this is how i look at it. right now, and our one guy that our defense is molded around is Brian Simmons. Hes been there the longest and is a solid leader. But hes not a s**t talker and not very vocal. He lets his actions speak louder than words. Which is great but we need a guy, which is and was supposed to be nate have his ability coincide with his words/attitude. We need a guy that can fire up our defense in the worst of situations. We need a guy thats gonna call plays and hype others up. We will be alot more solid next year, u wait. We might not cause as many turnovers, but we damn sure will allow less yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 My vote goes for Justin Smith. Just think of the number of roughing the passer penalties he was flagged for this past season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubThumper Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 OK, I'm confused. Is this toughest guy in terms of NFL success, hardest hitter, or just the base of the meaning -- all of which construct different debates and arguments? In terms of raw toughness, as turningpoint mentioned, then Justin Smith is my guy. That guy doesn't miss many snaps, if any, and he routinely makes tackles with one arm. The dudes a horse.It's the guy that makes the guys around him better as well as sheer toughness. The problem with Smith is that he's been trying to get by on talent, physical toughness and emotion too much. The thing that's sometimes overlooked with guys like Dick Lane, Jim Brown, Ray Nitschke, Mike Singletary, Ray Lewis, etc. is that they're not just getting by on natural talent and testosterone; they're students of the game on different levels including the technical level. They study tendencies and techniques and ways of setting people up for those big hits or sweet moves. Many of them maintain an awareness of how to keep their team mates motivated. It's not a haphazard thing.Usually somebody has to be the holler guy, but the holler guy has to also be a consummate pro to be effective. The Bengals need a little more emotion from some of their disciplined guys and more discipline from some of their emotional guys. They need guys that are qualified, willing and able to motivate the guys around them. The vets set the standard and function almost like auxillary coaches on championship teams, and right now some of the Bengals' vets need to raise their standard to and beyond that of some of the rookies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 our one guy that our defense is molded around is Brian Simmons. Hes been there the longest and is a solid leader. But hes not a s**t talker and not very vocal. He lets his actions speak louder than words. Which is great but we need a guy, which is and was supposed to be nate have his ability coincide with his words/attitude. We need a guy that can fire up our defense in the worst of situations. We need a guy thats gonna call plays and hype others up. I agree the D needs a more fiery leader. It may simply be that the defense in '04 was a reflection of its low-key coordinator, Frazier, and that a more up-tempo DC would encourage more heat. Certainly, Marvin's comments about the need to take the D to the next level suggest he's thinking something along those lines.But what we really need, and I've said this before, is a top-shelf playmaker. Is there anyone on D we'd really miss, if they were a FA and walked? Anyone that keeps opposing teams' OC's up at night? That's not to say we don't have some solid NFL-caliber starters on D, we do, nor to diss promising rooks like Madieu. Lewis's comments allude to that as well; he's pointed out the disparity between what the Bengals spend on offense and what they spend on defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Good way to put it TUB, I guess I'm real worried about the MLB spot altogether. Miller is way too light right now and if he can't gain about 20 pounds I look for maybe marvin to experiment with him at SS if we don't adress it in the offseason. Even though I don't know a whole lot about Webster's career (that happens when your behind Derrick Brooks) but I haven't seen anything that proves he's "The Guy" However, He did have to sub for Brooks for about half a season when he was injured and came out the team leader in tackles before Brooks came back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 MLB is a definite position of concern. The Natester didn't get a chance to prove himself last year and his patella tendon tear could limit him in 2005. When Nate did start for Bucs, can't say that great things happened --unless your a Colts fan who stuck it out to watch Peyton lead the Colts to a MNF win 2 yrs ago w/ something like 28 4th q pts.Miller mainly needs to keep his feet more. He's either going down to the turf face first or getting knocked on his a$$ way too much. But there is some upside to Miller at MLB as an emergency backup for now. If anyone seems likely to be experimented with as far as going to SS, I still say it's Landon -- even if this means as an 8th in the box on run downs while staying at LB in pass situations. I didn't realize just how much range Landon has until watching him live -- the TV doesn't do him justice. Landon's just too good to let sit, but even then his shoulders are an issue and he'll be prone to miss some games next year because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Agreed. We can't base our expectations of Webster off 2.5 games in which the defense blew in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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