What about Thomas Davis in the First Round?

[CJBestInAFC]

I was thinking about who the Bengals could draft in the first round. From all the college games that I watched this past weekend no D lineman impressed me except for David Pollack from Georgia. I don't think the Bengals should waste their first round pick on a D line except if Pollack falls to them. I want them to use it on Thomas Davis the Safety from Georgia. This guy is a monster in the secondary. 6-1 230. I know he is only a Junior but if he declares I hope the Bengals get him. He could be the next David Fulcher. I just think this is one of the biggest needs on the team because Becket has been hurt all season. Time for some new blood in there. Are there any other players that impressed you this weekend that the Bengals should take a look at?

[BengalPappaw]

I agree about the D-Line -- I'd love to have Pollack in the D-Line rotation or playing full time.

I wonder about Thomas Davis playing pass defense --- and his history of injuries. Love his run support.

Marvin seems to like safeties that can play corner and come up and support the run. Someone like Jimmy Williams, Virginia Tech, who is playing tonight.

There were two LB that I saw that I liked -- Odell Thurman and Channing Crowder. Thurman because os his aggressive play and hits. Channing Crowder because of his tackling and playmaking in other games.

But, I didn't see any DT that was worth "wasting" a first round draft choice on. With the Bengals success in later rounds I think they can get a good DT like Anthony Bryant or Ronald Fields in those later rounds.

P.S. I haven't watch the tape of Chad Greenway, Iowa. Mel Kiper has him as the top junior LB. So, as always, I reserve the right to change my opinion.

[bengalboomer7]

I know we're not all that excited about Michigan players, bt what about shazor from UM, that guy hits like a mack truck but I'm not positive if he's a senior

[BengalPappaw]

Yes -- he is a good player for "someone up North".

Ernest Shazor is listed by Kiper as a Junior

[AGrizzlyBaer]

where we are drafting i think he would still be there. and a good value and position fit for then

[BengalPappaw]

I just saw Jimmy Williams play for Virginia Tech against Auburn and I'd take him over Davis.

[schweinhart]

Yeah Jimmy Williams is a major talent too. Great coverage skills and real good hands demonstrated by his pick of Campbell on a pretty well thrown ball.

Williams may not hit w/ the force of Davis but he damn sure ain't bashful and he covers a major amount of ground w/ serious break and closing speed.

I got to say Carlos Rogers as a rd. 1 CB just upped a notch IMO. By no means a very good receiving corps at Va Tech but Rogers needed no validation of his coverage skills. It was his ability to stone runners that was most impressive vs. Va Tech. He did it repeatedly and even saved a TD when he knocked Randall for a loop.

[CJBestInAFC]

If Rogers is sitting there when the Bengals draft I think they should draft him. I know they don't need another cb, but Rogers is a can't miss. How much trade value is Tory James going to have now that he made the Probowl? They could draft Rogers trade James and get either D linemand or more draft picks. I think they could get a second or third for James. I think Ratliff has proven that he is a good cb, and keeps improving with the more experience that he gets.

[BengalPappaw]

I think Carlos Rogers has good coverage skills -- BUT, I do NOT like his tackling technique! Cutting the runner instead of wrapping-up.

I liked the way Williams wrapped -up the runners on his tackles -- he stopped "Chevy" Williams with his excellent tackling technique.

Bottom line -- I'd take either player (Rogers can be taught to tackle) -- but, I prefer Jimmy Williams, if he comes out.

[chrishcovga]

I'd take Rogers over Williams. Rodgers technique is about as good as they get coming out of college. He's ready. He could step in and start right away , but Williams got caught a couple of times monday night. He makes plays, but he looks like he could give up a couple gambling as well.

I do like the fact that he can play Free Safety. After Watching Donte Nicholson and Brodney Pool get " car-jacked " by the USC offense , Let alone their ( underclassmen wideouts ) , I'd take Williams as a safety , but Rodgers would get my nod.

* Plus Corey Webster is another very very good cornerback. Probably has better hands than Rodgers, ( former WR) but he can play Safety as well. His coverage skills are pretty strong, but he doesn't have elite speed like Rodgers.

[schweinhart]

Got to figure there's a good chance at 6 1st rd CBs in 2005.

1. Antrel Rolle

2. Marlin Jackson

3. Carlos Rogers

4. Corey Webster

5. Jimmy Williams (if he declares)

6. Pac Man Jones (if he declares)

Davis looks like a 1st rd safety if he has in fact declared.

Plus, Shazor, James Butler, and Jamaal Brimmer (though I don't know about Brimmer w/o watching him) all could go 1st rd.

[BengalszoneBilly]

They could draft Rogers trade James and get either D linemand or more draft picks.

We finally have a defensive back good enough for the Pro Bowl, and the first thing you want to do is TRADE HIM!?! Has everyone forgotten last season when most folks here were praying for someone like James?

I say he's a keeper, and I bet Marvin says the same! (Although he's left me hanging with that statement before. )

[LABengalsFan09]

Thomas Davis sure sounds a ton like David Fulcher when you hear people describe him and the way he plays, not to mention he is a converted linebacker a la Michael Boulware who wasn't too shabby for Seattle this year. But in Marvin's system, and it is Marvin's (ask Leslie), the safeties are interchangeable and must be as equally adept at the pass as they are against the run, and I don't know if that fits Marvin's scheme. But hey, on nostalgia factor alone I say draft this kid....Kid??? I hate it that these draft picks are now a couple years younger than me!!

[chrishcovga]

Got to figure there's a good chance at 6 1st rd CBs in 2005.

1. Antrel Rolle

2. Marlin Jackson

3. Carlos Rogers

4. Corey Webster

5. Jimmy Williams (if he declares)

6. Pac Man Jones (if he declares)

Davis looks like a 1st rd safety if he has in fact declared.

Plus, Shazor, James Butler, and Jamaal Brimmer (though I don't know about Brimmer w/o watching him) all could go 1st rd.

According to one website, Marvin Lewis wanted Jamal Brimmer last year !

He's a playmaker that's for sure. Always around the Ball.

As for Pac-Man Jones, it's just a matter of time....

[bengalboomer7]

I watch a lot more big 10 than SEC and I don't know anything about Brimmer, but would someone compare and contrast Davis to Shazor from Michigan. I know how everyone feeel about Michigan guys (I feel the same way) but watching sahzpr this season, man that guy is a beast of a hitter and looks like he has good speed for coverage.

[chrishcovga]

I watch a lot more big 10 than SEC and I don't know anything about Brimmer, but would someone compare and contrast Davis to Shazor from Michigan. I know how everyone feeel about Michigan guys (I feel the same way) but watching sahzpr this season, man that guy is a beast of a hitter and looks like he has good speed for coverage.

Brimmer plays for UNLV. so he's not in the SEC.

Thomas Davis is 6'1 and 230 lbs. He's pretty fast, but he's a hitter. He's not really defined by his play in space, as he's always played close to the line. That doesn't mean he doesn't have coverage ability though. Shazor probably has the edge in coverage ability, but Thomas Davis is clearly the better athlete. Not elite speed, but won't lose too many one on one battles. Thomas Davis would be a high pick in round 1, while Shazor could fall back into the pack of guys that will probably be gobbled up in rounds 2 and 3 .

Early List.

1. Thomas Davis

2. Brodney Pool

3. Donte Nicholson

4. Earnest Shazor

5. Jamaal Brimmer

6. Oshiomogho Atogwe - keep an eye out for him. Marvin loves smart defensive players, and this kid is an honor student !

[bengalboomer7]

I weas talking about Davis in the SEC, but i thought I had a decent grasp on college football and I've never heard of Brimmer, but that's probably because he plays in a smaller school out west

[chrishcovga]

I weas talking about Davis in the SEC, but i thought I had a decent grasp on college football and I've never heard of Brimmer, but that's probably because he plays in a smaller school out west

Ok, well by that I would say that Thomas Davis is the second best Defensive player on a very very good Georgia Bulldog defense behind David Pollack the defensive end.

He made play after play game after game, but he's not an Ed Reed type of player. More like a Roy Williams type. He's a hitter that can play the run and the short passing game. Not a free Safety type although he does have good speed.

[bengalboomer7]

Yeah I was looking at some of the draft websites you guys gave me and I seen a couple that had the bengals getting him, of course on a couple of others I seem him going as high as 9th and even befor Antrell Rolle. That tells me something right there about his ability

[chrishcovga]

Yeah I was looking at some of the draft websites you guys gave me and I seen a couple that had the bengals getting him, of course on a couple of others I seem him going as high as 9th and even befor Antrell Rolle. That tells me something right there about his ability

Any team that takes him before they take a guy like Antrel Rolle is wasting their draft picks plain and simple !

The problem I see ( and I do it too ) is that most teams draft a player that's a specific need instead of addressing the overall talent base of the unit.

We as Bengal Fans know that our Defensive line is porous, so we really don't have a choice as to who we can evaluate as a " need " and a " want " pick.

But look at examples of drafting a superior talent at a strong point on your team , and make the whole team better than just one part.

- Randy Moss, The Vikings already had 2 pro-bowl wr's in Jake Reed and Cris Carter, but it was the addition of Moss that made their entire team better because he improved the Offenses' ability to score at will, forcing other teams to play catchup limiting what other teams could do.

- There are a hundred examples of teams doing that, like the Patriots, Last year they needed a " little " help on the D-line, since they lost Ted Washington. But they already drafted Ty Warren (Texas A&M) the year before knowing what Washington would cost to keep him. So Already having one of the better Defenses in the league they jump on Vince Wilfork (DT-Miami Fla.) and now they're stockpiled like Nuclear Bombs from the Cold War..!

In '05, Cincy has glaring needs, at Center, DT, and Strong Safety, but we're pretty set at Cornerback and Linebacker. Think What would happen to our team if we added a Mike Williams or a Braylon Edwards with our # 1 pick. Doubtful they'll be there at (#17), but that's the same thing we said last year when Wilfork, W.Smith, Keneche Udeze, and Steven Jackson all fell !!

- I love the offseason.

[LABengalsFan09]

I love the offseason too!

I just wish it started in Febuary as opposed to January.

[Bobcat Bengal]

I love the offseason too!

I just wish it started in Febuary as opposed to January.

We wouldn't have to worry about that if we would've won more of our games.

[bengalboomer7]

Yeah all these if, ands, and crazt scenarios are great. I love speculation!

[schweinhart]

The problem I see ( and I do it too ) is that most teams draft a player that's a specific need instead of addressing the overall talent base of the unit.

We as Bengal Fans know that our Defensive line is porous, so we really don't have a choice as to who we can evaluate as a " need " and a " want " pick.

But look at examples of drafting a superior talent at a strong point on your team , and make the whole team better than just one part.

- Randy Moss, The Vikings already had 2 pro-bowl wr's in Jake Reed and Cris Carter, but it was the addition of Moss that made their entire team better because he improved the Offenses' ability to score at will, forcing other teams to play catchup limiting what other teams could do.

- There are a hundred examples of teams doing that, like the Patriots, Last year they needed a " little " help on the D-line, since they lost Ted Washington. But they already drafted Ty Warren (Texas A&M) the year before knowing what Washington would cost to keep him. So Already having one of the better Defenses in the league they jump on Vince Wilfork (DT-Miami Fla.) and now they're stockpiled like Nuclear Bombs from the Cold War..!

In '05, Cincy has glaring needs, at Center, DT, and Strong Safety, but we're pretty set at Cornerback and Linebacker. Think What would happen to our team if we added a Mike Williams or a Braylon Edwards with our # 1 pick. Doubtful they'll be there at (#17), but that's the same thing we said last year when Wilfork, W.Smith, Keneche Udeze, and Steven Jackson all fell !!

- I love the offseason.

The 2 cases in point -- Moss w/ Vikes and Wilfork w/ Pats -- make for an interesting argument about Bengals approach to draft last year.

I guess you would chalk the Perry pick in the Moss -- the hope that the player will increase the output of the offense even though there's no immediate need at the position.

If the Bengals would've went the Wilfork route last year, they would've had went for ...well... Wilfork or another DT like Tubbs since OG and Steele were out the door and Tony Williams would've been gone had there been somebody viable to replace him.

To note just how expert Belichick is at meshing both best available and team need, the Pats example is excellent. Not only did the Pats draft Wilfork, they also signed Keith Traylor as UFA for nose tackle because Big Ted was out the door.

The Pats not only addressed NT in this manner but also at the DT-sized DE position where Bobby Hamilton joined Big Ted out the door and the Pats took Marquise "Tri-Polar" Hill w/ the last pick of 2nd rd. Hill was picked even though the Pats had Warren, Seymour, and Jarvis Green at the DE positions. While the DE couldn't be characterized as an immediate team need, the DE pick of Hill did fill a roster spot vacated by Hamilton.

[TubThumper]

Thomas Davis sure sounds a ton like David Fulcher when you hear people describe him and the way he plays, not to mention he is a converted linebacker a la Michael Boulware who wasn't too shabby for Seattle this year. But in Marvin's system, and it is Marvin's (ask Leslie), the safeties are interchangeable and must be as equally adept at the pass as they are against the run, and I don't know if that fits Marvin's scheme. But hey, on nostalgia factor alone I say draft this kid....Kid??? I hate it that these draft picks are now a couple years younger than me!!

I don't like David Fulcher type safeties - especially for this team's scheme. If you're asking your safeties to be interchangeable, and you also might end up needing them to function as corners in multiple sets or in the case of injury, a quasi-linebacker type is too limiting. Also, those behemoth safeties tend to have a limited shelf-life in the NFL -where speed is king - as the legs start to wear down - especially with the more restrictive down-field bump calls. I favor a more compact, explosive guy back there.