We're Screwed

[HoosierCat]

from bengals.com...

PALMER UPDATE: Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer (knee) wasn't with the team when practice started Wednesday indoors at the Wall2Wall soccer complex in Mason, Ohio. That's not a good start to a week in which head coach Marvin Lewis said Palmer had to get some practice time in before playing Sunday against the Giants at Paul Brown Stadium. Also, Jon Kitna appeared at the quarterback news conference earlier in the day and indicated Palmer didn't feel like he had made much progress in the past two days.

[jditty47]

6-10 here we come. if hes out for the giants hes gonna be out for the eagles.

plz god play:(

[jjakq27]

6-10 here we come. if hes out for the giants hes gonna be out for the eagles.

plz god play:(

Folks I'm looking for a higher draft pick at this point. Losing to NE and Buffalo obviously crushed our postseason hopes. So I figure let TJ get 1000 yds, let Rudi get Corey's record for yardage and let Chad lead the league in receptions. Other than that a meaningless win in late December or early January is simply that. Meaningless.

[Tiger Stripes]

still wanna see palmer play

[jjakq27]

still wanna see palmer play

I do to. And I am not advocating a tank job either, but if we can move up a few spots then the agony of the next two weeks may be worth it come next September.

I also don't want to see Carson get hurt any worse. However, small hands and a cold football don't look to be a good mix again this weekend.

[HoosierCat]

Folks I'm looking for a higher draft pick at this point. Losing to NE and Buffalo obviously crushed our postseason hopes. So I figure let TJ get 1000 yds, let Rudi get Corey's record for yardage and let Chad lead the league in receptions. Other than that a meaningless win in late December or early January is simply that. Meaningless.

I disagree completely. But we're discussing this topic for this week's bengals banter column, so I'll let it pass until Friday.

[jjakq27]

Folks I'm looking for a higher draft pick at this point.  Losing to NE and Buffalo obviously crushed our postseason hopes.  So I figure let TJ get 1000 yds, let Rudi get Corey's record for yardage and let Chad lead the league in receptions.  Other than that a meaningless win in late December or early January is simply that.  Meaningless.

I disagree completely. But we're discussing this topic for this week's bengals banter column, so I'll let it pass until Friday.

Seriously, Joisey, how many times have we seen the Bengals win a meaningless game or two at the end of the season? Yes there is the short term excitement and satisfaction of the win but the don't mean anything unless your in the playoffs. Every win now just moves us further down the draft list.

I expect us to beat the Giants and now that TO is hurt, maybe even the Eagles can be had but if we lose one or both I think it helps us in the long run for the draft. But honestly beating the Ravens at home was my Super Bowl and it made the season for me. Anything after that would have been icing because I didn't think we would make the playoffs this year.

[HoosierCat]

Like I said, Hang on 'til the end of the week, I'll explain my thinking.

[TubThumper]

I think the main importance of these last two games is player evaluation (maybe some coach evaluation too). The games are REALLY anti-climactic, moreso than if the team was worse. But, this is a team that has the potential to be a very good team, and could have been this year but for some guys being tardy in learning what it takes to win in the NFL.

I hate seeing the team relegated to late season job auditions again, but that's where they are. It's time to see who's willing to do their homework, who is actually conditioned to be up to snuff this late in the season, who can make plays regardless of which quarterback is in the game, etc.

[CTBengalsFan]

still wanna see palmer play

I do to. And I am not advocating a tank job either, but if we can move up a few spots then the agony of the next two weeks may be worth it come next September.

I also don't want to see Carson get hurt any worse. However, small hands and a cold football don't look to be a good mix again this weekend.

it's kind of a win-win situation with these games now. we win, great. we lose, we draft higher.

[JPW]

I do Not want to see Palmer playing again this season unless he is ONE HUNDRED Percent Healthy.

What is important now is to have everybody Healthy and Ready to Go in 2005.

[UK Bengal]

I do Not want to see Palmer playing again this season unless he is ONE HUNDRED Percent Healthy.

What is important now is to have everybody Healthy and Ready to Go in 2005.

hell yeah i dont want to see another year like this sit palmer for the rest of the season and let kitna fook it up and we draft higher get everyone healthy for next season and then we kick some ass and prove we are back with a wining record and a trip to the playoffs.

[semiotter]

I dont think JON will have to games like that in a row, least I hope so!!

[HoosierCat]

I do Not want to see Palmer playing again this season unless he is ONE HUNDRED Percent Healthy.

What is important now is to have everybody Healthy and Ready to Go in 2005.

hell yeah i dont want to see another year like this sit palmer for the rest of the season and let kitna fook it up and we draft higher get everyone healthy for next season and then we kick some ass and prove we are back with a wining record and a trip to the playoffs.

Re the 2005 draft, the difference between 6-10 and 8-8 is likely to be the difference between drafting about 13th and drafting about 17th. In other words, losing our final two games isn't going to improve our pick by more than a few spots.

Moreover, 2005 isn't shaping up as a particularly strong draft. All the 13th v. 17th pick is likely to get you is a more expensive player with no greater chance of success. One of the nice things about picking lower, obviously, is that it becomes easier to fix mistakes. If they decided to cut Perry, for instance, I think he'd represent less than $3 million in dead money next season; cutting the decidely average Justin Smith would still cost us more than that, I believe.

[kybengalsfan]

Hey, Guys: if we lose the last two games, that is not a good way to go out...losing our last four games. Given that statistic, how attractive is our team to a good free agent who may be contemplating joining us? Besides, to ever play without winning as your goal can be disastrous to the future outlook of the players. I would mush rather go 8-8 and make it two years in a row without a losing season.

[UK Bengal]

hey dont get me wrong i dont want to lose the last 2 games but without palmer i dont see us wining kitna is way much more mistake prone and hes a vet.

i would rather they sit palmer and give casy a go see if he is a future backup insted of letting kitna mess it up.

[Kirkendall]

i would rather they sit palmer and give casy a go see if he is a future backup insted of letting kitna mess it up.

Me too.

[San Antonio Bengal]

Moreover, 2005 isn't shaping up as a particularly strong draft. All the 13th v. 17th pick is likely to get you is a more expensive player with no greater chance of success.

If we wind up with a higher pick, it gives us a better opportunity to trade down and pick up additional picks in the later rounds. At least that's what I'd do.

[HoosierCat]

Moreover, 2005 isn't shaping up as a particularly strong draft. All the 13th v. 17th pick is likely to get you is a more expensive player with no greater chance of success.

If we wind up with a higher pick, it gives us a better opportunity to trade down and pick up additional picks in the later rounds. At least that's what I'd do.

I don't think they're going to be looking at piling up picks this year. Over the last two drafts, we've had 20 selections, of whom 18 are still with the team. That's 30% of the roster (including the PS) right now. Just adding 7 more rooks will put the percentage of guys with 0-2 years experience at over 40% of the team.

[schweinhart]

I don't think they're going to be looking at piling up picks this year. Over the last two drafts, we've had 20 selections, of whom 18 are still with the team. That's 30% of the roster (including the PS) right now. Just adding 7 more rooks will put the percentage of guys with 0-2 years experience at over 40% of the team.

This raises a whole bunch of offseason issues because clearly ML wants to stake his coaching rep on the facts that he hangs w/ the UFAs he signs and gets the right rooks to fit into the mix.

Now that the roster turnover honeymoon is over, ML will face tougher choices in how he balances this rep with both fielding the best available team for 2005 and continuing to build for the organization's future.

My take is give ML more picks and let him use his talent evaluation skills to pick the best defensive prospects he can while also adding to Carson's arsenal.

I would like to see another 10 picks in 2005 with maybe 5 combined in rds 3 and 4. True, this pushes the roster but it also forces the hand with UFAs and IRs, including players like Powell, Mitchell, Bauman, Russell, etc. who have been on Skins and Ratbirds when ML was DC.

Add to this additional waiver wire claims, undrafted rookie free agents, and roster cuts acquired from other teams that are already on the roster and the 10 2005 picks (along with maybe 3 UFAs currently not on the team) should infuse an enhanced level of comeptition during the offseason that should improve the team in both the short and long term.

Between the veteran players that ML wants and proves committed to and the younger players in the fold and coming into, ML's motivational stance will only grow stronger, which should help this team to excel.

[rtconner]

uhm, i'll remind you that Kitna is not playing against the Bills this week. he'll have a good game and you all will love him once again.

[Tiger Stripes]

please... kitna isn'nt palmer he sucks. palmer could've picked the bills apart i know chad would've had more than 2 catches for 10 yards with palmer taking the snaps.

[HoosierCat]

I would like to see another 10 picks in 2005 with maybe 5 combined in rds 3 and 4. True, this pushes the roster but it also forces the hand with UFAs and IRs, including players like Powell, Mitchell, Bauman, Russell, etc. who have been on Skins and Ratbirds when ML was DC.

I can't agree. Youth and competition aren't the issues this team faces; focus and experience are. I would much rather see some horse-trading, perhaps for higher picks, perhaps for young-but-veteran player, that results in about 5 picks in this draft. Then keep an eye on the waiver wire for key role players.

In short, I feel that over the past two seasons this team has strongly emphasized "change" in the change v. continuity debate -- and that's been the correct approach. But the scale needs to tilt back toward continuity. Our struggles on defense this year can be traced in large part to continued injury-fueled turnover; ditto the early problems with the o-line.

[chrishcovga]

What a great topic... I love how this arguement is going...

We Win, we drop in the draft. We lose, we go higher in the draft. Unfortunately though, either way, we won't be picking in the lottery ( 1- 9 ) version of NFL picks.

So whomever we select will offer us basically the same. Also Considering how many quality players fall each year, should be enough gusto to know that we should try to win these last two games.

Another thing you guys are forgetting is how Marvin will be viewed if we have 2 seasons in a row of a December swoon...???

Considering how ficky NFL fans are, it won't be long in Cincinnati, and probably even on this board as well that we'll be hearing

" Marvin hasn't done anything for us " " He's made us better in October and November - but we still suck in September and December when it counts the most !! "

And you know it'll happen. :player:

I say win out ! Beat the Giants and the Eagles. Better to go 8-8 then 6-10 anyday ! If there's someone we want come April and don't think we can wait to get him...Trade up !

[HoosierCat]

Another thing you guys are forgetting is how Marvin will be viewed if we have 2 seasons in a row of a December swoon...???

Actually, I mention that in my Banter convo with Kirk and Sky this week. I agree completely, winning out is the best thing that could happen, and if we absolutely have to have some guy, trade up.