Pat's Missing Top DB's

[walzav29]

I know the guys they have in there are doing good, but they are not Pro Bowlers. I bet that we could take advantage of that. Don't know why, but I like our chances. The only team to beat the is the Steelers. They kind of punched them in the mouth. I think the Bengals are learning how to do that. It seems they have been able to move the ball on all of the top defenses. It will have to be a perfect game, but it can happen.

[Kirkendall]

Word has it the Pats secondary is questionable. Perhaps our friends at Pats planet can straighten that out for us...

[Lillian]

My friends in NE tell me that they've done quite well. Troy Brown plays the slot receivers and Eugene Wilson has been moved to CB from his safety position. Randall Gay an undrafted LSU kid (Saban recommended) has come up big. I don't think it'll be as easy as you think to 'take advantage' of their supposed weakness.

[schweinhart]

Pats secondary has definitely been disrupted w/ the likes of Troy Brown and Earthwind Moreland forced into action.

Even if Samuel and Poole can come back, the Bengals pass game has to be the focus of gameplan because Pats run D has allowed only 67-189 in last 4 games (avg. about 17-47 per game). This is vs. Browns Green, Jamal-less Ravens, Priest-less Chiefs and Bills McGahee.

Maybe Rudi has a little more success vs. Pats but it's Air Carson time for this one. Blocking has to keep LBs off Palmer for more time to throw.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

My friends in NE tell me that they've done quite well. Troy Brown plays the slot receivers and Eugene Wilson has been moved to CB from his safety position. Randall Gay an undrafted LSU kid (Saban recommended) has come up big. I don't think it'll be as easy as you think to 'take advantage' of their supposed weakness.

Well, if we can take advantage of Champ Bailey, Ed Reed, and Chris McAllister, we can take advantage of Troy Brown, a wide out, and a rookie....

[Annihilus]

Pats secondary has definitely been disrupted w/ the likes of Troy Brown and Earthwind Moreland forced into action.

Even if Samuel and Poole can come back, the Bengals pass game has to be the focus of gameplan because Pats run D has allowed only 67-189 in last 4 games (avg. about 17-47 per game). This is vs. Browns Green, Jamal-less Ravens, Priest-less Chiefs and Bills McGahee.

Maybe Rudi has a little more success vs. Pats but it's Air Carson time for this one. Blocking has to keep LBs off Palmer for more time to throw.

Troy Brown has played in the secondary going all the way back to preseason (mainly against slot receivers in 3rd down packages) and has defensed several balls, and has intercepted two. Moreland is a little shaky, but has only given up a couple of long balls. The whole defense shifts from time to time as needed. Harrison has played some cornerback, for example. Make no mistake about it - we miss our two starting CB's, but the D is tight and I don't worry about it now (I did for a couple weeks though). Randall Gay (undrafted) out of LSU is the real deal.

The Pats D is misleading and you can't tell it's story/tendencies by looking at stats. The reason they haven't given up any yards in the running game lately is because they have lately played teams with strong running games and anyone that watches the Pats knows that they focus on a team's strength and take that away - forcing you to beat them with a weaker part of your game. It can work the other way too: in the first game of the season against the Colts, they worked to shut down Manning's pass attack, basically letting Edge run the ball for a ton of yards.

I don't know the Bengals that well, but you can bet that whatever your boys are best at (run or pass game), they likely won't be too good at it for this week at least.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I don't know the Bengals that well, but you can bet that whatever your boys are best at (run or pass game), they likely won't be too good at it for this week at least.

Good luck, the strength of the Bengals is .... BALANCED ATTACK... we are using the run to set up the pass and the pass to set up the run. Defend against the run and we will throw to CJ and TJ all day (hey, it rhymes!). Defend against the pass, and Rudi Johnson and Kenny Watson will run all over you.

Take your pick!

[Kirkendall]

I mostly worry about your head coach though. If you guys can do what you did to Peyton, then, anything is fair game. Personally I hope we stay with a balanced attack, but I wouldn't mind seeing Carson get more air time.

Hopefully Brat (Bengals OC) doesn't throw too many times on 3rd and 1. Then again, we may need to depending on how well we run the ball.

I'm excited about this game because I'd like to see how our team goes against the best team (or second best depending on your opinion) in the NFL. Belichick will definately find holes in our team, which may be a good thing, getting an idea of what we need to work on, upgrade, for 2005.

[Annihilus]

I don't know the Bengals that well, but you can bet that whatever your boys are best at (run or pass game), they likely won't be too good at it for this week at least.

Good luck, the strength of the Bengals is .... BALANCED ATTACK... we are using the run to set up the pass and the pass to set up the run. Defend against the run and we will throw to CJ and TJ all day (hey, it rhymes!). Defend against the pass, and Rudi Johnson and Kenny Watson will run all over you.

Take your pick!

In that case, BB will play situational ball and probably won't focus on either. He coaches (and the Pats play) some of the best situational ball I've ever seen. Balanced teams are tougher to defend, naturally - but I'm sure he'll find some tendencies to hone in on.

Kirkendall - I think you're right on about the coach, I'd be worried too. I also think that a balanced attack would suit you guys - this should be a fun game to watch. You'll certainly do better than the Browns.

[Kirkendall]

You'll certainly do better than the Browns.

Crap, I hope so...

[shasta]

Word has it the Pats secondary is questionable. Perhaps our friends at Pats planet can straighten that out for us...

Hi guys, Pats fan here, just saw your post on our db situation and thought I would share my views. Well first off, you are correct, we should be vulnerable all over the secondary. Right now we have Randal Gay, an undrafted rookie free agent that didn't even start last year at LSU last year starting left side. On the other side is a guy off the practice squad, Earthwind Morland, and as you know Troy Brown is playing the nickle. Now this is were it gets even more crazy, in Dime situations our starting saftey Wilson moves to CB and LB Don Davis comes in at Safety. Now to be honest, I have no idea how this is working but it is, Rams, Chiefs, Ravens, Browns all thought they could exploit this defensive back-field but couldn't. The Chiefs moved the ball on us pretty well but couldn't score, and none of the other games were in much question past the end of the second quarter. My best guess is that it's working because a combination of coaching, play calling and player evaluation, the Pats are playing a lot of zone with mixed coverages. They never leave any single CB alone on a island for more than one or two plays in a row. This is difficult for the O to figure out because if they try to exploit one guy because they see him single coverage, they may only get one chance before the play calling moves a safety or Lb over to his side. Just some thoughts anyway.

[R-U-D-I]

CJ and TJ each break 100 yards again. Only question is if we can score enough to win. Bengals O is playing tough and will score, but can the defense come up with the big plays and keep us in the game?? Turnovers will be huge. What's the weather forecast?

[Annihilus]

CJ and TJ each break 100 yards again. Only question is if we can score enough to win. Bengals O is playing tough and will score, but can the defense come up with the big plays and keep us in the game?? Turnovers will be huge. What's the weather forecast?

High chance of rain (or snow depending on temp) Saturday, and 30% chance of rain Sunday temps in the low 40's. Also 50% chance of precip on Friday - I'd look for another messy game (but shouldn't be as bad as the conditions in the mudbowl against the Ravens).

[HoosierCat]

Given the way that Carson's been throwing the ball lately (75-80% completion, 7 TDs, 4 picks in past 2 games) I would not be surprised if BB went back into the files and dusted off the gameplan he used to beat the Rams in the Super Bowl: flood the field with DBs, clog the passing lanes, and force Palmer to either throw into coverage (with chances for the INT) or switch to running the ball. BB knew Mike "I'm an offensive genius" Martz would go down in flames before changing his pass-happy "Greatest Show on Turf" passing attack, and unfortunately our OC Bob Bratkowski is at least as pass-happy as Martz. I could easily see him falling into the same trap.

Rudi is a dangerous runner, but I'd bet that BB would rather shut down the Bengals' suddenly surging vertical passing game and take his chances with letting us have some room to run. Once the field shortens to the final 20-30 yards it becomes much easier to guard against both, and there is where BB will look for TOs or to force FGs. He can afford to give up a few 3-pointers since the Bengals defense has shown little ability to stop teams with a balanced run/pass attack of their own. The only time they really managed it was against Denver.

Anyhow, that's my $0.02.

[Annihilus]

Rudi is a dangerous runner, but I'd bet that BB would rather shut down the Bengals' suddenly surging vertical passing game and take his chances with letting us have some room to run. Once the field shortens to the final 20-30 yards it becomes much easier to guard against both, and there is where BB will look for TOs or to force FGs. He can afford to give up a few 3-pointers since the Bengals defense has shown little ability to stop teams with a balanced run/pass attack of their own. The only time they really managed it was against Denver.

Anyhow, that's my $0.02.

You've got pretty good insight into what is likely to happen if the Pats can't shut down the Bengals between the 20's. It's kind of amazing to watch a team that can move the ball seemingly at will come to a grinding halt when they get to the 20 yard line (See Kansas City). Scoring TD's will be tough, even with our depleted secondary.

[shapu]

The key to this game isn't the Bengals' play against the DBs - it's the linebackers.

If we can find a way to hit the soft spots behind the LBs, or against coverage LBs, then our offense can move the ball. Best way to do this is establish the run and run a lot of play-action passes.

If we can't/won't do that, then Sunday is going to be a long day for the Orange and Black.

[BengalByTheBay]

I mostly worry about your head coach though. If you guys can do what you did to Peyton, then, anything is fair game. Personally I hope we stay with a balanced attack, but I wouldn't mind seeing Carson get more air time.

Bingo....this is the way the Pats have been winning. Very tough to game plan this team because it changes dramatically every week. BB has them in the right spot most of the time. I think we need to keep the points down and play field position to have a chance in this one. That and then take some shots ... and have at least 1 trick play. We haven't done it all year -- no fake punts/field goals. Even BB would not be ready for that because we haven't shown it to anybody. I just wonder if we have that in the bag because now would be the time to use it. This would be a huge upset if we could somehow pull it off.

[jditty47]

this is gonna be a dogfight game. our oline will want rudi to run better than dillon and our defense will be deadset on stopping dillon. I think both running games will get going and both passing games will be able to move the ball. This will not be a low scoring contest in my view. Both teams will create turnovers, but the winner will be the one that can generate points off of them.

[shasta]

The key to this game isn't the Bengals' play against the DBs - it's the linebackers.

If we can find a way to hit the soft spots behind the LBs, or against coverage LBs, then our offense can move the ball. Best way to do this is establish the run and run a lot of play-action passes.

If we can't/won't do that, then Sunday is going to be a long day for the Orange and Black.

I think your right with this strategy however making it work is going to depend on stoping our D-line from getting pressure on Carson before your recivers can shed the coverage. The Pats D-line has been real hard to stop and because of this we've been able to keep our LB's in coverage more often. To me this is the game, if the D line puts consistent pressure on Carson without having to bring extra defenders from the LB or Saftey position, then this game is over by half time. On the other hand, if the Bengels force the Pats into committing LB & saftie's to pressuring the QB, then it's anybodies game. On a general note, I'm happy for Bengal fans that they bright future ahead of them, and hope your loyalty as true fans is rewarded. Just not this week.

[turningpoint]

Pats secondary has definitely been disrupted w/ the likes of Troy Brown and Earthwind Moreland forced into action.

Even if Samuel and Poole can come back, the Bengals pass game has to be the focus of gameplan because Pats run D has allowed only 67-189 in last 4 games (avg. about 17-47 per game). This is vs. Browns Green, Jamal-less Ravens, Priest-less Chiefs and Bills McGahee.

Maybe Rudi has a little more success vs. Pats but it's Air Carson time for this one. Blocking has to keep LBs off Palmer for more time to throw.

were playing the 3-4, i think we can just keep pounding it up the middle on em.

then get to the LBs 3-4yd runs are fine it will keep the lbs honest and hopefullly eliminate there constant blitzing..

anyways Bratkowski did really well game planning vs the steelers Rush I think Carson will handle it with great success.

[schweinhart]

Pats secondary has definitely been disrupted w/ the likes of Troy Brown and Earthwind Moreland forced into action.

Even if Samuel and Poole can come back, the Bengals pass game has to be the focus of gameplan because Pats run D has allowed only 67-189 in last 4 games (avg. about 17-47 per game). This is vs. Browns Green, Jamal-less Ravens, Priest-less Chiefs and Bills McGahee.

Maybe Rudi has a little more success vs. Pats but it's Air Carson time for this one. Blocking has to keep LBs off Palmer for more time to throw.

were playing the 3-4, i think we can just keep pounding it up the middle on em.

then get to the LBs 3-4yd runs are fine it will keep the lbs honest and hopefullly eliminate there constant blitzing..

anyways Bratkowski did really well game planning vs the steelers Rush I think Carson will handle it with great success.

The Pats LBs have 22.5 of their 37 sacks. You got a point about running Rudi between the tackles to freeze their LBs some. I'm thinking we see that RB dive fake w/ the WR reverse a couple times. Who knows, maybe even the 3rd option that ain't shown up yet -- fake dive/fake reverse/bomb to Chad vs. whatever sorry SOBs the Pats try to stick on him.

You're right about Brat plan to keep the Steelers blitz at bay out of their 3-4 in 2nd game. But the Steelers w/o Casey Hampton up front isn't as good as what the Pats got. More yds out of Rudi would help for this one. At same time the Pats O ain't the TurdBirds O either, so Bengals O playing field position is not as great of a factor as it could have been early vs. Ravens since Pats are much more skilled at moving ball.

I'm still thinking Air Carson vs. Pats and about 20 Rudi runs unless Bengals get lead first.

[chrishcovga]

If you're going to Gameplan against the Defending SuperBowl Champions, then you'd better have better information than what I've heard here so far !!

For One, just because NE has injuries in the secondary, doesn't mean that who's playing isn't playing well!

Ok Here's who I would attack.

1. ON offense, I'd attack Rodney Harrison. He's never been quick, and he's always one to bite on double moves. Could run a lot of play action and " stutter " routes his way while throwing deliberately underneath.

2. Pats don't have a speedy defense. They have a very smart defense. Everyone stays home, so that means our offensive line will have to drive block and not zone block this week. No stretches or draws, just leads' and dives.

Game Plan - : Offense dinks and dunks to keep Corey Dillon and Tom Brady off the field. 3rd and shorts should focus on bootlegs to move Carson out of pocket to avoid NE Blitz.

Defensively - Pats have about as many different subs and situations as the Colts do. Only difference, Pats receivers aren't as good as Colts receivers. Defensive line has to play like it did against the Steelers, WE need lots of pressure and must eliminate Corey early!! - Win the time of posession , and we probably win the game. Force the running plays east and west.. Run Blitz early and often.

Match their substitutions. Pats will bring in speed guys like Bethel Johnson to force favorable underneath matchups. More man on Man coverage on the WR's and double the Tight Ends and Backs out of the Backfield. :player:

[schweinhart]

Attacking Harrison by air is all good and well if he can be isolated. The 5-receiver set would force this matchup. It's a good idea to force him into thinking coverage as early as possible to maybe get him on his heels some for Rudi. Slow or not, the dude packs a major pop and everybody running downfield knows this.

But I'm liking TJ in this one wherever he gets the height advantage. That 30-plus yd catch he plucked off the hat of the Ratibird defender Sunday made that advantage clear. Besides TJ vertical in height mismatch, TJ behind the LBs will work well again, too, if the line provides the time for him to get set. The TD Housh had Sunday was set up by a CP pump fake the other direction. Simple sh*t like that should help throw Pats D off.

[schweinhart]

2. Pats don't have a speedy defense. They have a very smart defense. Everyone stays home, so that means our offensive line will have to drive block and not zone block this week. No stretches or draws, just leads' and dives.

Game Plan - : Offense dinks and dunks to keep Corey Dillon and Tom Brady off the field. 3rd and shorts should focus on bootlegs to move Carson out of pocket to avoid NE Blitz.

The speed lack seems more significant w/ Rudi running. A greater factor to me seems to be the return of Samuel and Poole. Make them run as fast as they can immediately and get them to overreact and jump routes early. They've both been out awhile.

I'm seeing more vertical to start then dinking and dunking. Bengals got some catches out of TEs last week. Even when these get just 4 or 5 yds, they force LB-DB splits in coverage, which harkens me back to Miami game-winning CP drive where Schobel caught 3 or 4 short passes between LB and CB that set up Chad 20 yarder in single coverage w/ FS that gave position for FG.

[schweinhart]

3rd and shorts should focus on bootlegs to move Carson out of pocket to avoid NE Blitz.

Now that I think about it, bootlegging CP would be good vs. Pats LB speed. Whether he throws or does like he did last week for a 9 yd. run. I think it was Kirk who had that run in his game story as the 1st time CP slid. I believe he's right.

CP can be more mobile than he's shown. Maybe not as gifted w/ mobility as Big Ben but no doubt he can move when needed. Bootlegging definietly freezes the OLBs between coverage and run if CP can prove he can run and not just drift towards sideline looking only for throw.