Palmer comparisons...

[skyline]

There was a thread on this earlier, but it turned into a bit of a bash fest. Let's try to keep this one from going in that direction.

There was an article on bengals.com pointing out the similarities between Palmber and Vinny, as well as Palmer and Aikman.

The Aikman comparison makes a lot of sense to me. They are pretty similar physically, right? The article also mentions that they have similar throwing styles.

Do you think the Aikman comparison is a good one, or is there someone else he resembles more?

[LesterLyles]

I posted a few days ago (w/o reading the bengals.com article) that Palmer reminded me of testaveder. Superior physical skills but with the tendency to make mistakes at big spots in the game. JMHO. W/ that being said, Vinny has won a lot of games in the NFL. IF you look at his post Tampa career (Browns,Ravens, Jets and Cowboys) its a pretty good career.

[Tampa Bengal]

Aikman all the way. Both are similar in size, passing style and attitude.

Just like Aikman once the team gets better around Carson he will be awesome.

Vinny never got the chance to be that good early in career because of the players around him.

But look at him now he's having a good year and making good decisions. He is a good QB and for his age that makes him an awesome QB. How many guys are still in the league as old as Vinny? How many QB bust have there been since Vinny was drafted? I know the knock on Vinny is that he was a first round bust, but playing for 18 years makes up for a lot. If Carson plays like Aikman after a few years and last as long as Vinny that would be ideal.

[LesterLyles]

Aikman all the way. Both are similar in size, passing style and attitude.

Just like Aikman once the team gets better around Carson he will be awesome.

Vinny never got the chance to be that good early in career because of the players around him.

But look at him now he's having a good year and making good decisions. He is a good QB and for his age that makes him an awesome QB. How many guys are still in the league as old as Vinny? How many QB bust have there been since Vinny was drafted? I know the knock on Vinny is that he was a first round bust, but playing for 18 years makes up for a lot. If Carson plays like Aikman after a few years and last as long as Vinny that would be ideal.

Aikman's skill and winning combined with Vinny's longevity...thats not asking for too much .

[CJBestInAFC]

I posted a few days ago (w/o reading the bengals.com article) that Palmer reminded me of testaveder. Superior physical skills but with the tendency to make mistakes at big spots in the game. JMHO. W/ that being said, Vinny has won a lot of games in the NFL. IF you look at his post Tampa career (Browns,Ravens, Jets and Cowboys) its a pretty good career.

I just hope he doesn't start his career after he leaves Cincy like Vinny did. I like the comparison to Payton Manning.

[skyline]

I posted a few days ago (w/o reading the bengals.com article) that Palmer reminded me of testaveder.  Superior physical skills but with the tendency to make mistakes at big spots in the game.  JMHO. W/ that being said, Vinny has won a lot of games in the NFL. IF you look at his post Tampa career (Browns,Ravens, Jets and Cowboys) its a pretty good career.

I just hope he doesn't start his career after he leaves Cincy like Vinny did. I like the comparison to Payton Manning.

I don't know...maybe physically. I'd be shocked and amazed (and pleased, of course) if he were to equal Manning in the mental aspect, though.

[BengalNation1281]

I would compare Palmer to Chris Redman.

I realized something today that I hadn't really thought about before. Maybe Palmer and his mistakes wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't have such a "ho hum" look and attitude when something goes wrong. I saw some video of David Carr, and even when he got sacked 73 times or whatever it was in his first year, he would jump up and get in people's faces, he would get pumped and do the same for his teammates, he would have fire in his eyes and dare the defense to do it again. Peyton Manning knew how great he was going to be his first year, and he didn't let the mistakes bother him.

Palmer has no fire. Every time something bad happens, he just gets this baffled look on his face and goes and sits on the bench. I haven't seen him getting up in his teammate's faces and getting pumped, or showing any sort of energy. I've seen Kitna (and this is not another shameless Kitna plug, just a point to illustrate what I'm talking about) do more yelling and screaming and pumping up than I've seen Palmer do this year, and that's what we need our starting "Quarterback Of The Future" to be doing.

Just a thought.

BN1281

[kybengalsfan]

I have had similar thoughts about Palmer, yet the offensive linemen like how he stays cool under pressure and it thus makes them feel more confident. Now, we haven't seen much evidence that their confidence in him is making them a better football team, yet they seem to like him for his coolness.

[skyline]

I would compare Palmer to Chris Redman.

I realized something today that I hadn't really thought about before. Maybe Palmer and his mistakes wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't have such a "ho hum" look and attitude when something goes wrong. I saw some video of David Carr, and even when he got sacked 73 times or whatever it was in his first year, he would jump up and get in people's faces, he would get pumped and do the same for his teammates, he would have fire in his eyes and dare the defense to do it again. Peyton Manning knew how great he was going to be his first year, and he didn't let the mistakes bother him.

Palmer has no fire. Every time something bad happens, he just gets this baffled look on his face and goes and sits on the bench. I haven't seen him getting up in his teammate's faces and getting pumped, or showing any sort of energy. I've seen Kitna (and this is not another shameless Kitna plug, just a point to illustrate what I'm talking about) do more yelling and screaming and pumping up than I've seen Palmer do this year, and that's what we need our starting "Quarterback Of The Future" to be doing.

Just a thought.

BN1281

I disagree 100%. Maybe you weren't aware, but different people are born with different temperaments. Some people get excited, and yell, and scream, and others don't. Just because someone has a calm demeanor, doesn't mean they have no fire.

What's important is whether or not the quarterback has the confidence of his teammates. I think it's pretty obvious that he does. You've heard players comment in the media about how he isn't shaken when things go wrong. That characteristic about him is obviously one that has his teammates impressed. If that's what is called a "ho hum" attitude, then I'll take "ho hum" any day of the week.

[slowtwitch]

List of "Ho Hum"Quarterbacks - Joe Montana, Ken Anderson, Troy Aikman, Payton Manning(early years according to teammates) Bob Greasie, Sonny Jurgenson, Bernie Kosar, Bart Starr, Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett

[BengalBax]

I would compare Palmer to Chris Redman.

I realized something today that I hadn't really thought about before. Maybe Palmer and his mistakes wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't have such a "ho hum" look and attitude when something goes wrong. I saw some video of David Carr, and even when he got sacked 73 times or whatever it was in his first year, he would jump up and get in people's faces, he would get pumped and do the same for his teammates, he would have fire in his eyes and dare the defense to do it again. Peyton Manning knew how great he was going to be his first year, and he didn't let the mistakes bother him.

Palmer has no fire. Every time something bad happens, he just gets this baffled look on his face and goes and sits on the bench. I haven't seen him getting up in his teammate's faces and getting pumped, or showing any sort of energy. I've seen Kitna (and this is not another shameless Kitna plug, just a point to illustrate what I'm talking about) do more yelling and screaming and pumping up than I've seen Palmer do this year, and that's what we need our starting "Quarterback Of The Future" to be doing.

Just a thought.

BN1281

agreed.

case closed

[EdwardG]

This "mistake" stuff is baloney.

Carson Palmer has 10 Interceptions. That's fewer than former Super Bowl QB's Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins. It's the same number as veteran Jake Plummer. Brett Favre has nine interceptions. Matt Hasselback has 9 interceptions. Of those four, only Brett Favre has more passing attempts than Palmer.

This is football education 101. The Bengals have struggled running the football. They have been atrocious on defense. Hence, they cannot control the clock, and they cannot keep the other team from scoring. This has led to early deficits.

For example, against Tennesee were were down 13-3 at halftime. Against the Jets were down 14-10 at halftime. Against the Steelers we were down 14-10. Against Baltimore we were down 17-3. Against the Browns were down 21-17.

What happens when you are losing in the second half? You start throwing the football all over the field. That's when many of Carson Palmer's supposed "mistakes" occur - late in the game, when we are losing, and when the opposing team knows beyond any doubt that we are going to throw the football. Few QB's succeed without a good running game and defense. Fewer first year starters do. When the opposing team knows the only way you'll have success is by throwing the football, they naturally do what they can to stop you from throwing the football.

[bengalboomer7]

good post edward g, finally someone who knows a little football!

Carson Palmer, your 2008 NFL MVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

write it down, I said it first!!!!!!!!!

[BengalByTheBay]

This "mistake" stuff is baloney.

Carson Palmer has 10 Interceptions. That's fewer than former Super Bowl QB's Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins. It's the same number as veteran Jake Plummer. Brett Favre has nine interceptions. Matt Hasselback has 9 interceptions. Of those four, only Brett Favre has more passing attempts than Palmer.

This is football education 101. The Bengals have struggled running the football. They have been atrocious on defense. Hence, they cannot control the clock, and they cannot keep the other team from scoring. This has led to early deficits.

For example, against Tennesee were were down 13-3 at halftime. Against the Jets were down 14-10 at halftime. Against the Steelers we were down 14-10. Against Baltimore we were down 17-3. Against the Browns were down 21-17.

What happens when you are losing in the second half? You start throwing the football all over the field. That's when many of Carson Palmer's supposed "mistakes" occur - late in the game, when we are losing, and when the opposing team knows beyond any doubt that we are going to throw the football. Few QB's succeed without a good running game and defense. Fewer first year starters do. When the opposing team knows the only way you'll have success is by throwing the football, they naturally do what they can to stop you from throwing the football.

agreed....

case closed

[BengalNation1281]

Well, I didn't like Palmer when we drafted him, I didn't like Palmer when he got chosen to be the starter in the middle of the spring, and I don't like Palmer now.

At least I'm consistent.

I will agree about how lots of good quarterbacks didn't show fire and showed poise instead, but it would still be nice if Palmer didn't have his "huh? what happened?" look on his face every time he f'ed something up.

BN1281

[BengalNation1281]

I also have one question for the legions of Palmer homers that roam free like the buffalo on this board:

I have talked smack on Palmer from day one. Never liked him, still don't. I will admit that he has had some good monents this year, but I don't think that he is going to be the great quarterback that everyone else apparently thinks he will turn into someday (and someday is an indeterminate amount of time). We have had so many Quarterbacks Of The Future that I don't see why everyone is so quick to jump on this one's bandwagon. After David and Akili and the nameless masses that came before him, why does everyone put so much stock in this one? And the fact that he had one good year in college and won the Heisman should not add to his pedigree, considering that there have been numerous big-name quarterbacks who won the Heisman and went on to do nothing in the pros.

So my question is this: I want the Bengals to win, and they are the only team that I have the heart to root for. If Palmer turns out to be the cure for cancer, like so many of you think he will be, I will come on this board and take my medicine and admit that I was horribly wrong. But if he turns out to be another lost cause like those that came before him, which of his homers will come on here and do the same thing? And even more than that, while you are taking him to task for how bad he is, will you admit that you were just as wrong?

I eagerly await the answer.

BN1281

[LABengalsFan09]

What would I do in my life without your posts?????? The make work go by faster with a good laugh every now and then.

Sorry Carson doesn't meet your approval oh mighty General Manager of the football gods....

Find something else to complain about, your schtick is taking it's toll on the 'zone.

Just let it go dude..... I gotta get back to roaming around like a buffalo I guess.

[Chad Johnson]

Edward G's post must have been overlooked by this guy. Sorry not everyone is going to have a Ben Rothelisberger first season. I actually think he's playing quite well and the only position change we should consider is Perry for Rudi.

[LABengalsFan09]

Oh yeah, Hey Edward, way to drop some knowledge on 'em my friend.

[BengalsMan3203]

People have said it once and i'll say it again.

People wouldn't care what Carsons numbers looked like if we had

1) Any type of running game.

2) Any type of D.

If you give Carson 100 yard rusher per game plus a D that CAN stop the run his record is flip flopped.

I'm NO football god. But I believe this is the right choice for the Bengals. I've seen flashes of greatness from him. BUT, we are going to get some growing pains with a "semi" Rookie QB and NO D.

BM3203 out

[ShulaSteakhouse]

and the only position change we should consider is Perry for Rudi.

Ridiculousness, Rudi's had 100+ yards 2 out of the last 3 games and 2 TD's. He's perfectly capable of being their featured back.

Chad's #'s are down to but no one's questioning him...granted he's proven himself but the point is no one in that offense is having a great year.

[skyline]

I also have one question for the legions of Palmer homers that roam free like the buffalo on this board:

I have talked smack on Palmer from day one. Never liked him, still don't. I will admit that he has had some good monents this year, but I don't think that he is going to be the great quarterback that everyone else apparently thinks he will turn into someday (and someday is an indeterminate amount of time). We have had so many Quarterbacks Of The Future that I don't see why everyone is so quick to jump on this one's bandwagon. After David and Akili and the nameless masses that came before him, why does everyone put so much stock in this one? And the fact that he had one good year in college and won the Heisman should not add to his pedigree, considering that there have been numerous big-name quarterbacks who won the Heisman and went on to do nothing in the pros.

So my question is this: I want the Bengals to win, and they are the only team that I have the heart to root for. If Palmer turns out to be the cure for cancer, like so many of you think he will be, I will come on this board and take my medicine and admit that I was horribly wrong. But if he turns out to be another lost cause like those that came before him, which of his homers will come on here and do the same thing? And even more than that, while you are taking him to task for how bad he is, will you admit that you were just as wrong?

I eagerly await the answer.

BN1281

Please stay on topic...this thread was not intended to become a bashing session.

[wookie]

Edward G had the best post on Palmer I've seen in quite a while. I still like Palmer, and I keep reminding myself that this is the 1st year he has gotten to see live football action. The Bengals have only won 2 games, but they wouldn't have been in a position to win either of those games if Palmer hadn't played well. In the situation he's in, with a banged up O-line and WR corps, and having to play catch-up in almost every game, its no wonder that he has had 10 INTs.

I would have liked to see him complete passes on last minute drives for game tying or winning scores instead of being picked off or fumbling...but he's had 1 reliable WR to throw too which makes him predictable and if he's not taking hits immediately after his drops then he wouldn't fumble. Its a team effort to lose these games and I don't believe that Palmer has the blame all on his own.

As for comparing him to other QBs, I think that an Aikman comparison would be fair but I wouldn't throw too many other names out there. I'd rather see Palmer emerge and make a name for himself.

[BengalBax]

Oh....brother