slowtwitch Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 back in the bad ol days (pre marvin) we would estabish the running game to set up the pass. if cory didn't have a good day then nothing worked and we would lose. this year the running game just can't seem to get started unless the opposing defense is getting torched by chad (i.e. the denver game). would it make sense for this offense to estabish the passing game first to set up the running game? kinda like the marino dolphins? personnaly, i prefer establishing the ground game first but you gotta work with the tools in your truck. know what i mean??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Definitely. They have to establish the deep threat, before they'll get some open space in the running game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I don't think he's like Dillon at all. Dillon thought he was the team's salvation. Chad thinks he has to be good but knows he is better because of other players on the team. Look at the way he talked about missing Pdub on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I don't think he's like Dillon at all. Dillon thought he was the team's salvation. Chad thinks he has to be good but knows he is better because of other players on the team. Look at the way he talked about missing Pdub on the field.He wasn't comparing their attitudes or work ethics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowtwitch Posted October 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I don't think he's like Dillon at all. Dillon thought he was the team's salvation. Chad thinks he has to be good but knows he is better because of other players on the team. Look at the way he talked about missing Pdub on the field. i agree that you can't compare their attitudes or team spirit, etc. i am just saying good teams usually have some kind of identity or personality based on their strengths and weaknesses. i just think we might have become more of a passing team than a running team. personally, i wish we were best know as a great defensive team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Antonio Bengal Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Dillon was a tremendous runner. When Dillon was having a good day, the opposing defense would need to concentrate on him much more which would then open up more of the passing game. Now it's just the opposite -- establishing the passing allows the running game to open up. It seems to be that Rudi gets the majority of his yardage late in the 3rd quarter and in the 4th. Most times he doesn't have a big run in the 1st. There's really been not many running yards in the first half of any of our games. I wonder what his yardage looks like when you break it down by quarter? Anyway, what will really help our offense is if some other guys can get involved in the passing game. Denver saw what happened when CJ was in single coverage. Our other recievers need to get to the level where the opposing defense is caught between a rock and a hard place -- double coverage on CJ leaving someone else open or single coverage on CJ. Neither should be a desirable option. And with that, running the ball should be a little bit easier.Anyone else notice that our two wins this season have come against the current top two AFC defenses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Anyone else notice that our two wins this season have come against the current top two AFC defenses? LOL Go figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Definitely. They have to establish the deep threat, before they'll get some open space in the running game. That's a negative ghostrider. You have to establish the run before anything else works.That's just my personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Definitely. They have to establish the deep threat, before they'll get some open space in the running game.That's a negative ghostrider. You have to establish the run before anything else works.That's just my personal opinion. typically ,yes, but that's not the way it happened against Denver...I think both ways can be effective. If they putting 8 men up front, the only way to get them off the runner is to go deep. If they aren't doing that, then you need to establish the run before the pass becomes more available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Definitely. They have to establish the deep threat, before they'll get some open space in the running game.That's a negative ghostrider. You have to establish the run before anything else works.That's just my personal opinion. typically ,yes, but that's not the way it happened against Denver...I think both ways can be effective. If they putting 8 men up front, the only way to get them off the runner is to go deep. If they aren't doing that, then you need to establish the run before the pass becomes more available. Sky,Didn't Rudi have 120 for the game Monday Night???If that isn't establishing the run, then I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Definitely. They have to establish the deep threat, before they'll get some open space in the running game.That's a negative ghostrider. You have to establish the run before anything else works.That's just my personal opinion. Well your opinion needs to catch up with the times Barb. Teams now pass to setup the run. Hell that's what did it for the Bengals on Monday. Go long, ease the pressure and then bash the stuffings out of the other team when they lighten up to play pass. How many teams run from 3 wr sets? That smashmouth run run pass stuff is going away. Now I ain't saying I'm happy about it, I'm just saying that's the way the league is at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Sky,Didn't Rudi have 120 for the game Monday Night???If that isn't establishing the run, then I don't know what is. But Rudi didn't get his yards until the second half after Chad had already racked up over a 100 recieving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Definitely. They have to establish the deep threat, before they'll get some open space in the running game.That's a negative ghostrider. You have to establish the run before anything else works.That's just my personal opinion. Well your opinion needs to catch up with the times Barb. Teams now pass to setup the run. Hell that's what did it for the Bengals on Monday. Go long, ease the pressure and then bash the stuffings out of the other team when they lighten up to play pass. How many teams run from 3 wr sets? That smashmouth run run pass stuff is going away. Now I ain't saying I'm happy about it, I'm just saying that's the way the league is at. NO!!! Only Mike Martz and Bob Drunkowski think that way. It's the good teams that establish the run first then go to the air.Kev, do you work as a scout for the Bungles??? I have to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Sky,Didn't Rudi have 120 for the game Monday Night???If that isn't establishing the run, then I don't know what is.But Rudi didn't get his yards until the second half after Chad had already racked up over a 100 recieving. Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Sky,Didn't Rudi have 120 for the game Monday Night???If that isn't establishing the run, then I don't know what is.But Rudi didn't get his yards until the second half after Chad had already racked up over a 100 recieving. Ok...riddle me this, Batman:Who else had big numbers other than Chad???Like I said before--establish the run, then pass.Rudi was quietly having a good day as well. I do believe that Rudi was averaging 4.5 ypc during the 1st half.AGAIN, that IS establishing the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Who else besides Chad needs big numbers in the passing game? They passed to Chad on the first play, and kept threatning to pass the ball from the get go. Rudi(like always) had his big numbers in the second half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Who else besides Chad needs big numbers in the passing game? They passed to Chad on the first play, and kept threatning to pass the ball from the get go. Rudi(like always) had his big numbers in the second half All Palmer's numbers were to CHAD!!!!!!!!!! The rest of the offense went to RUDI!!!!!!!Are you this dense, Kev??? Someone knock him over the head with something really hard. I'd do it with my penis, but that would be considered gay. So, I'll just keep the lizard caged. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyJay Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 You guys forget about INDY? Do they even have a running back? LOL!Basically, you need to go with the strengths for your team. Right now our strength, not to mention our swagger, rests on the shoulders of Chad. Our team has a running game that is pretty good, it just seems like we decide to take 6-7 plays off, then bust a 12 yard run. Then take a break for another 6-7 plays and bust one out again. Getting PW back will give us our possession receiver back, which will boost our mediocre 3 down conversion percentage. Right now I think we average between 6-8 yards to go on 3rd down. Not too good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Antonio Bengal Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Didn't Rudi have 120 for the game Monday Night???If that isn't establishing the run, then I don't know what is.Rudi did have 120 yards for the game. However, 36 of those yards were on his touchdown run at the end of the third quarter. He then had 49 more yards in the 4th quarter. What about the first and second quarters? Rudi had only 36 yards at halftime! Rudi still had only gained a yard or two in the entire 3rd quater before the 36 yard touchdown run.With only a few seconds left in the 3rd quater, Rudi had only 38 total yards. That's it. Almost three quarters of football finished with only 38 yards rushing. That's what I call establishment of the running game! I know that the Titans are going to be running scared this Sunday if Rudi has 38 yards or even up to 40 yards after 44 minutes of the game have been played. All the teams in the NFL better watch out because the Bengals establish the running game! Not many teams gain 40 yards so quickly!Don't get me wrong. I loved Rudi's performance, especially in the fourth quarter. His running late in the game sealed the win. However, it's a far cry to say that the running game was established before then.The good teams don't necessarily establish the run and then go into the air. The good teams do what it takes to score points however they can. If you can score points by passing, do it. If you can score points by running, do it. I don't care whether the run or pass is established first, but I want something to be established! I would rather win a game by passing than lose because I held to a rigid belief that running must be established before passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 You guys forget about INDY? Do they even have a running back? LOL!Basically, you need to go with the strengths for your team. Right now our strength, not to mention our swagger, rests on the shoulders of Chad. Our team has a running game that is pretty good, it just seems like we decide to take 6-7 plays off, then bust a 12 yard run. Then take a break for another 6-7 plays and bust one out again. Getting PW back will give us our possession receiver back, which will boost our mediocre 3 down conversion percentage. Right now I think we average between 6-8 yards to go on 3rd down. Not too good. UHHHHTHE EDGE is tearing it this year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 You guys forget about INDY? Do they even have a running back? LOL!Basically, you need to go with the strengths for your team. Right now our strength, not to mention our swagger, rests on the shoulders of Chad. Our team has a running game that is pretty good, it just seems like we decide to take 6-7 plays off, then bust a 12 yard run. Then take a break for another 6-7 plays and bust one out again. Getting PW back will give us our possession receiver back, which will boost our mediocre 3 down conversion percentage. Right now I think we average between 6-8 yards to go on 3rd down. Not too good.UHHHHTHE EDGE is tearing it this year.... Haha yes he is, but that wasn't his point. His point was that the Colts didn't need for James to run the ball first in order for the passing game to get going...And even though James is playing pretty well, how much do you hear about it? Not much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 And even though James is playing pretty well, how much do you hear about it? Not much... Some of this due to Indy=small market team. Drop him onto teams on either coast and you wouldn't hear the end of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcat Bengal Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 You guys forget about INDY? Do they even have a running back? LOL! You forget about Edgerrin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 And even though James is playing pretty well, how much do you hear about it? Not much...Some of this due to Indy=small market team. Drop him onto teams on either coast and you wouldn't hear the end of it! This is true as hell!!! How many times have you heard Tiki Barber's name??? The guy is mediocre as hell. However, since he plays in NY, he gets more coverage than usual.And that sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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