Fire Bill Parcells?

[HoosierCat]

For those who want an accurate measuring stick of Marvin's progress in Cincy, I suggest an examination of how Bill Parcells is doing in Dallas. Unlike comparisions to teams such as the Steelers or the Giants, the Cowboys and Bengals present remarkably similar situations. For example:

Cowboys:

-- 15-33 for 2000-2002

-- 2002: 31st in points scored, 13th in points allowed

-- vs. 2002, 2004 roster features 40-odd new players

-- 2003: +5 game improvement (10-6)

-- new starting QB in 04 vs 03

Bengals

-- 12-36 for 2000-2002

-- 2002: ranked 28th in points scored, 32nd in points allowed

-- vs. 2002, 2004 roster features 40-odd new players

-- 2003: +6 game improvement (8-8)

-- new starting QB in 04 vs. 03

How have the two teams fared in 04 to date?

Cowboys:

-- record after 4 games: 2-2

-- record vs winning teams: 0-2

-- record vs. losing teams: 2-0

-- are allowing 23 points per game avg., scoring 17 avg.

Bengals:

-- record after 4 games: 1-3

-- record vs. winning teams: 0-3

-- record vs. losing teams: 1-0

-- are allowing 24 points per game avg, scoring 16 avg.

In short, Marvin has done about as well as Bill, maybe even better in some respects, such as the Bengals defense: Marvin started with one of the worst, Bill with one in the upper half of the league. So, should we cut Marvin some slack and see how the other 12 games go, or shpould we add Bill Parcells to the list of coaches who should be canned?

[kingwilly]

Nicely presented. I would argue that Marvin Lewis has done an even better job for one main reason.

Changing the mindset of an organization that has one of the worst owners in the league, Mike Brown.

Bill Parcells has Jerry Jones, for better or worse, and a Cowboys organization that has a serious tradition of winning.

[BengalBobNC]

Nicely presented. I would argue that Marvin Lewis has done an even better job for one main reason.

Changing the mindset of an organization that has one of the worst owners in the league, Mike Brown.

Bill Parcells has Jerry Jones, for better or worse, and a Cowboys organization that has a serious tradition of winning.

Absolutely! ALL things considered, Marvin Lewis is doing a great job.

There is truly no comparing the Bengals with any other team in the league. What other team (and their fans) went through what the Bengals (and us) went through from 1991-2002??? You do not change 13 years of futility that quickly.

We are on the right track finally and the season is still very young. We may not have a great record at the end of this year, but I believe Coach Lewis will turn us into winners again. Give him some time!

BTW: You already know this, but I'm going to post it anyway - Parcell's new starting QB this year is a seasoned veteran. Palmer starts only his 5th game this weekend.

Great post JC!

[kybengalsfan]

Hey, BengalBob: I am with you in the logic and optimism for the future, but I am also one of the fans who have been thru this torturous last 13 years waiting for a winner. Yes, there is light at the end of the tunnel, but I hate to think of another losing season just for the hope of another "wait until next year." When all things are considered, the one thing I don't get is how our defense can still be as horrible as they were last year, if not worse. Just doesn't add up.

[Barbarian]

For those who want an accurate measuring stick of Marvin's progress in Cincy, I suggest an examination of how Bill Parcells is doing in Dallas. Unlike comparisions to teams such as the Steelers or the Giants, the Cowboys and Bengals present remarkably similar situations. For example:

Cowboys:

-- 15-33 for 2000-2002

-- 2002: 31st in points scored, 13th in points allowed

-- vs. 2002, 2004 roster features 40-odd new players

-- 2003: +5 game improvement (10-6)

-- new starting QB in 04 vs 03

Bengals

-- 12-36 for 2000-2002

-- 2002: ranked 28th in points scored, 32nd in points allowed

-- vs. 2002, 2004 roster features 40-odd new players

-- 2003: +6 game improvement (8-8)

-- new starting QB in 04 vs. 03

How have the two teams fared in 04 to date?

Cowboys:

-- record after 4 games: 2-2

-- record vs winning teams: 0-2

-- record vs. losing teams: 2-0

-- are allowing 23 points per game avg., scoring 17 avg.

Bengals:

-- record after 4 games: 1-3

-- record vs. winning teams: 0-3

-- record vs. losing teams: 1-0

-- are allowing 24 points per game avg, scoring 16 avg.

In short, Marvin has done about as well as Bill, maybe even better in some respects, such as the Bengals defense: Marvin started with one of the worst, Bill with one in the upper half of the league. So, should we cut Marvin some slack and see how the other 12 games go, or shpould we add Bill Parcells to the list of coaches who should be canned?

EXCUSE ME?????

Keyword:

PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When has Marvin made the playoffs??? And what kind of shape was the Dickboys in PRE-BILL?????

Fact is--is that it's going to take Bill Parcells more than 3 years to clean that s**t up. Didn't they JUST STOP recently paying dead money to players not playing anymore like Michael Irvin and Troy Aikman??? Those are dumb contracts by Jerry Jones.

Here we go with the comparing a HALL OF FAMER (Parcells) to a WANNABE (Marvin) again.

My assessment is that Marvin Lewis should have never taken the Bungles job. He's in big trouble in dealing with idiots like Mike Brown and Katie Blackburn.

[BengalBobNC]

Hey, BengalBob: I am with you in the logic and optimism for the future, but I am also one of the fans who have been thru this torturous last 13 years waiting for a winner. Yes, there is light at the end of the tunnel, but I hate to think of another losing season just for the hope of another "wait until next year." When all things are considered, the one thing I don't get is how our defense can still be as horrible as they were last year, if not worse. Just doesn't add up.

I too have been through the dark years, I've been a fan from the beginning ('68, showing my age, although I was 5 years old, but I still remember rooting for them, the way a 5 yr old would!)

We've got a lot of new faces on defense and the defense had injuries too. In some cases I think they are trying too hard to win. Everyone said the heat is on the defense to help "bail out" Palmer while he learns. I'm sure they heard that. I've seen them play where they are over aggressive and end up over pursuing or being out of position for the play called. Someone once said this game "is a game of inches". A couple of inches turns a sure tackle into an attempted arm tackle.

Keep in mind: During 1991-2002 "wait until next year" was (as it turned out) full of false hope and no results. Those days are history just like yesterday is. This season is far from over. If it turns out that we have a losing record this year I think this is the first time in a very long time that "next year" truly keeps looking better. Another draft, FAs, perhaps more people who are not playing NFL quality are gone as Marvin continues to build this team.

Yeah, I'm optimistic, I'm glad to hear others are too.

Bottom line: We've only played four games. Let's play a few more before writing off the season as a learning experience for new starters.

It tooks the Ravens 5 years to build them into a Super Bowl team. Marvin built the defense. They won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at QB. TRENT DILFER! Just think what we are going to do with an experienced Palmer at QB!!! Along with more players than Marvin wants on defense. You can't get rid of them all this quickly.

[Barbarian]

It tooks the Ravens 5 years to build them into a Super Bowl team. Marvin built the defense. They won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at QB. TRENT DILFER! Just think what we are going to do with an experienced Palmer at QB!!! Along with more players than Marvin wants on defense. You can't get rid of them all this quickly.

Marvin had the personnel too--or do the players Sam Adams, Goose, Da Killa, Jamie Sharper, Chris McAllister, etc. seem to allude you???

Now here's the $1 million dollar question--WAS MARVIN LEWIS THAT GREAT OF A DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR OR DID HE JUST HAVE THE PERSONNEL???

I'm thinking it's a little of both.

Then we also have to look at this too:

Most Great Coordinators don't make Great Head Coaches. Here's some examples:

1. Mike Martz

2. Dave Campo

3. Norv Turner

4. Dick LeBlow

5. Gunther Cunningham (already his defense is showing major improvement)

So, will Marvin make this list??? Ask me after the 2005 season. Then it should be evident.

[BengalBobNC]

EXCUSE ME?????

Keyword:

PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When has Marvin made the playoffs??? And what kind of shape was the Dickboys in PRE-BILL?????

Shall we take a look: I'm going back to 1991, after all, Marvin has to deal with mentality dating back that far so it is only fair:

Cowboys record dating back to 1991:

2003 - 10-6

2002 - 5-11

2001 - 5-11

2000 - 5-11

1999 - 8-8

1998 - 10-6

1997 - 6-10

1996 - 10-6

1995 - 12-4 (Super Bowl Winner)

1994 - 12-4

1993 - 12-4 (Super Bowl Winner)

1992 - 13-3 (Super Bowl Winner)

1991 - 11-5

I don't think I need to post what the Bengals season records were for each year dating back to 1991.

Parcell's task is far less daunting than Lewis' task is. Night and day different.

[Barbarian]

EXCUSE ME?????

Keyword:

PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When has Marvin made the playoffs??? And what kind of shape was the Dickboys in PRE-BILL?????

Shall we take a look: I'm going back to 1991, after all, Marvin has to deal with mentality dating back that far so it is only fair:

Cowboys record dating back to 1991:

2003 - 10-6

2002 - 5-11

2001 - 5-11

2000 - 5-11

1999 - 8-8

1998 - 10-6

1997 - 6-10

1996 - 10-6

1995 - 12-4 (Super Bowl Winner)

1994 - 12-4

1993 - 12-4 (Super Bowl Winner)

1992 - 13-3 (Super Bowl Winner)

1991 - 11-5

I don't think I need to post what the Bengals season records were for each year dating back to 1991.

Parcell's task is far less daunting than Lewis' task is. Night and day different.

Again--EXCUSE ME???

Look at the 2000-2002 records of the Dickboys. You even stated it yourself:

2002 - 5-11

2001 - 5-11

2000 - 5-11

Then Bill Parcells takes the Cowboys to the PLAYOFFS with Cokehead the Second (Quincy f**king Carter) taking all the snaps!!! This year, Parcells has Vinny Testacleverde (Green balls in Spanish) taking the damned snaps because Cokehead f**ked him.

He also DIDN'T HAVE A RUNNING GAME!!!

At least Marvin's Offense can move the friggin' ball!!!

You guys are a little biased, aren't you???

[HoosierCat]

Conan:

When has Marvin made the playoffs???

16.4: # of seasons Bill Parcells has been a head coach.

1.4: # of seasons Marvin Lewis has been a head coach.

Now, you can talk about whether Bengals fans set their expectations too low, but busting on a guy for not going to the playoffs in his rookie season is nuts.

And what kind of shape was the Dickboys in PRE-BILL?????

Ummm...did ya read the post? Y'know, the first line under "Cowboys" where it says 15-33 the 3 years prior to Bill? Baically, they were in about as bad shape as the Bengals, and for many of the same reasons (most notably, in their struggles to find a replacement for Aikman).

Fact is--is that it's going to take Bill Parcells more than 3 years to clean that s**t up.

I agree 100%. And likewise, it's going to take Marvin more than 1.4 years to clean up the debacle in Cincy. That's my whole point.

Here we go with the comparing a HALL OF FAMER (Parcells) to a WANNABE (Marvin) again.

My intention isn't to compare Parcells and Lewis, it's to compare the Cowboys and Bengals, both of which entered last season in very similar circumstances (poor record over the last three years, lack of talent, a new head coach, etc.), both of whose head coaches took similar actions (axing lots of players, demanding performance, enforcing accountability) with similar results (a +5 improvement for the 'Boys, +6 for the Bengals) and which are now performing in similar fashion this year (both have lost to winning teams they've faced and won against losers).

The point isn't that Marvin = Bill. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, ask me again after Marvin's had 10-15 years as a head coach. But the bottom line is they inherited similar teams, have taken similar steps, and, so far, gotten similar results. And that suggests to me that the Bengals are on as good a pace as could be expected.

[BengalBobNC]

You are one strange individual Barb. I think you missed the whole point, that JC re-pointed out!

My point is Marvin stepped in to a much larger mess than Parcells did.

You said it yourself in another thread when you agreed with me that NO team every had to deal with Mike Brown but us.

 

All teams have faced different situations. But NONE of those teams had Mike Brown as a GM from 1991-2002.

There's the difference maker right there. The Bungles GM/President/CEO/Wannabe Deity. There ya go.

Good post.

Cowboys winning 3 super bowls during that time proves a winning mentality during the '90s. What did we have?

[TippCityRick]

Most Great Coordinators don't make Great Head Coaches. Here's some examples:

1. Mike Martz

2. Dave Campo

3. Norv Turner

4. Dick LeBlow

5. Gunther Cunningham (already his defense is showing major improvement)

I may be wrong here, but wasn't Parcells a coordinator at one time? Belichek? Gosh, I may have missed one, but name me one great coach in the last 20 years that wasn't a coordinator. Please. Comon' Barb, just one.

[BengalBobNC]

We had an obviously overrated QB coach/offensive coordinator who amounted to nothing as a head coach. Damn! What was his name???

Oh yeah! Bill Walsh! What a loser!

Most coordinators make great coaches, a few don't, but most do!

[Barbarian]

Neil and Bob (Rick and Bob),

Most Great Coordinators don't make Great Head Coaches.

Read that one more time:

Most Great Coordinators don't make Great Head Coaches.

Does that make sense now???

Let me give you another example--back in the Civil War--General Lee stated that:

"Most Great Division Commanders don't make Great Corps Commanders." General Ewell after Stonewall Jackson died is a very good example of this.

Do you guys understand now???

Now, going back to my example:

Most Great Coordinators don't make Great Head Coaches. Here's some examples:

1. Mike Martz

2. Dave Campo

3. Norv Turner

4. Dick LeBlow

5. Gunther Cunningham (already his defense is showing major improvement)

These 5 guys are good examples of Coordinators that didn't make good head coaches. Especially Martz. He has a Super Bowl Ring when he was the Offensive Coordinator of the Rams. However, he looks like a bumbling idiot as head coach. And he has wayyyy too much power. He also tries to still call the Offensive plays. That can't happen.

Now, every once in a while, you do get a guy that makes an excellent head coach that was a coordinator, like Bill Parcells (Defensive) and Bill Bellicheck (Defensive). Bill Walsh is another one (Offensive, I believe).

There are MANY LOSERS but few winners guys.

AND ALL HEAD COACHES got their starts somewhere. You work your way up the ladder--DUH!!!! Almost all coaches were a coordinator at one time or another.

However, like I stated before:

Most Great Coordinators don't make Great Head Coaches.

Thank you.

[Barbarian]

16.4: # of seasons Bill Parcells has been a head coach.

1.4: # of seasons Marvin Lewis has been a head coach.

Now, you can talk about whether Bengals fans set their expectations too low, but busting on a guy for not going to the playoffs in his rookie season is nuts.

Just one last thing before I quit--Parcells may have 16.4 years of coaching, however, only 1.4 years with the Cowboys.

And already, he's taken his Dickboys to the playoffs with 3 5-11 records previous.

So guess what??? Marvin and Bill WERE IN THE SAME BOAT!!!!!

And Marvin has a few things that Bill doesn't have:

1. A QB.

2. A Running game.

3. Offensive Weapontry.

[BengalBobNC]

Just one last thing before I quit--Parcells may have 16.4 years of coaching, however, only 1.4 years with the Cowboys.

And Lewis fell one game short of getting us in the playoffs. After 13 straight years of crap.

[Barbarian]

And Lewis fell one game short of getting us in the playoffs. After 13 straight years of crap.

And this is justification how again????? This justifies what??? 8-8 is still f**king very mediocre.

Once again:

And Lewis fell one game short of getting us in the playoffs. After 13 straight years of crap.

You putz. By getting beat at crunch time by the Browns in week 17??? By losing 4 straight??? That's New Orleans Saints-like!!!!!!

Going back to the Browns Game--don't you think that you would have your people a little more prepared than that???

And then having a nobody like Suggs run for almost 200 on you on the ground???

My god.

Last year didn't prove s**tola. Marvin's got to make the playoffs for me to start believing. And this year--starting 1-3 tells me that we're in for another long season. 2005 better be the year--or I'll just say that Marv is history as well.

[BengalBobNC]

Peace Barb...You are actually screaming for wins. I respect that.

Perhaps I spoke too soon. (Above quote from another thread)

 

And Lewis fell one game short of getting us in the playoffs. After 13 straight years of crap.

And this is justification how again????? This justifies what??? 8-8 is still f**king very mediocre.

You putz. By getting beat at crunch time by the Browns in week 17??? By losing 4 straight??? That's New Orleans Saints-like!!!!!!

I think you missed the point again. We simply ran out of gas last year, so to speak. We came close. After 13 years of crap we came close, that's pretty good for a first year head coach don't you think???

We were 1-4 last year before turning it on. The season isn't over yet. We lose to the Browns and then the Broncos and then the Titans and yeah, it's over. I'm not even close to calling Lewis and Co. a failure after only 20 games! Even if we go 1-15 (not gonna happen anyway). I'll save that for much, much later. It took Sam Wyche from '83 until '88 to get to the playoffs/Super Bowl. Before '88 he was called Wacky Wyche by a lot of people. After '88 those people wanted him long term.

I guess I should expect the same from, unfortunately, too many concerning Lewis and Co.

You putz.

Ahh come on Barb! You can do better than that can't you?

[Barbarian]

I think you missed the point again. We simply ran out of gas last year, so to speak. We came close. After 13 years of crap we came close, that's pretty good for a first year head coach don't you think???

So, are you going to dismiss Coslet's 7-2 when he took over???

You putz.

Ahh come on Barb! You can do better than that can't you?

Yes, I can. Ask Billy--he can tell you. It was a friendly jab. If it wasn't, you would be squeeling home to mommy with your tail between your legs!!!

[BengalBobNC]

BTW: We're getting out of sync sparring across two separate threads.

Let's agree to somewhat agree, somewhat disagree, and completely agree/disagree.

Besides, my fingers are getting tired!

[BengalBobNC]

So, are you going to dismiss Coslet's 7-2 when he took over???

No, Coslet took over that year and it looked great.

The next year he stuck with Blake too long before starting Esiason. We won the 1st game, lost six straight, Boomer rescued us off the bench over a few games before being made the starter and went 4-2 beating the Ravens in the last game of the season with a classic Esiason play action fake PASS early in the game which set the tone.

Now: Before I cause a Kitna vs Palmer debate after stating Coslet stayed with Blake too long: Both Blake and Esiason were veterans. Neither were l-o-n-g term options at QB. Palmer is our future.

Mike Brown, in his infinite wisdom, let Boomer go to MNF and signed neil O'Donnell???

Again....the dark years.

[BengalNation1281]

One thing that I would have to point out in the Lewis/Parcells debate is that Parcells obviously knows when a bad situation presents itself and works to correct it, where so far Marvin has let a bad situation go on unabated. I know that there are Palmer homers all over this board, but 3 TDs to 7 INTs and a 1-3 record with what should be one of the most explosive offenses in the league should be reason enough for a change. Lewis looked like he might be the guy who might be able to overcome the Mike Brown curse; instead he is merely sustaining it.

I still like Lewis (to a point), and I do like some of the things that he's done, and I am also aware of the fact that the defensive injuries have contributed to the lousy start, but when your offense can't get it going with the rookie and you have a QB on the bench who had a career year last year, why do you continue to play the rookie? Because as much as benching him might ruin his confidence, being the QB who continually folds under pressure and helps to take down what should be the up-and-coming team of the 2004 season will do the exact same thing.

Mike Brown is an idiot, which we all know, but Lewis has also bought into what he has been selling, so what does that make him at this point? Parcells came back with the condition that Jerry Jones stayed out of his personnel decisions and the coaching aspect, and Jones abided by that decision. Lewis made a decision that had Mike Brown written all over it, and now we're 1-3.

So does this post make me a troll? I hope not.

BN1281

[BengalBobNC]

One thing that I would have to point out in the Lewis/Parcells debate is that Parcells obviously knows when a bad situation presents itself and works to correct it, where so far Marvin has let a bad situation go on unabated. I know that there are Palmer homers all over this board, but 3 TDs to 7 INTs and a 1-3 record with what should be one of the most explosive offenses in the league should be reason enough for a change. Lewis looked like he might be the guy who might be able to overcome the Mike Brown curse; instead he is merely sustaining it.

At what point would you have started Palmer? Or benched him? Palmer is the future QB of this team. The 1-3 start is far from being all Palmer's fault.

I still like Lewis (to a point), and I do like some of the things that he's done, and I am also aware of the fact that the defensive injuries have contributed to the lousy start, but when your offense can't get it going with the rookie and you have a QB on the bench who had a career year last year, why do you continue to play the rookie? Because as much as benching him might ruin his confidence, being the QB who continually folds under pressure and helps to take down what should be the up-and-coming team of the 2004 season will do the exact same thing.

What makes you think our record would be any different with Kitna starting? Does he play defense? I don't see Palmer folding under pressure. Yes, he made some rookie mistakes, but the o-line has got to give him more time. If all starters are back and not rusty we'll see how it goes against Cleveland this Sunday.

Mike Brown is an idiot, which we all know, but Lewis has also bought into what he has been selling, so what does that make him at this point? Parcells came back with the condition that Jerry Jones stayed out of his personnel decisions and the coaching aspect, and Jones abided by that decision. Lewis made a decision that had Mike Brown written all over it, and now we're 1-3.

Parcells is a proven Head Coach having taken the Giants and Patriots to the Super Bowl and the Jets and Cowboys into the playoffs. Marvin Lewis was a first year head coach looking for a shot. How much could he have demanded back in the '02-'03 off season? Still, Mike Brown listened to Marvin on a lot of things: increasing the number of scouts, revamping the weight room, etc, etc. All of which cost Mike Brown money. We all know how much he loves spending money don't we?

So does this post make me a troll? I hope not. 

I don't think so, but you need to look into the details a little further IMO.

[Barbarian]

One thing that I would have to point out in the Lewis/Parcells debate is that Parcells obviously knows when a bad situation presents itself and works to correct it, where so far Marvin has let a bad situation go on unabated. I know that there are Palmer homers all over this board, but 3 TDs to 7 INTs and a 1-3 record with what should be one of the most explosive offenses in the league should be reason enough for a change. Lewis looked like he might be the guy who might be able to overcome the Mike Brown curse; instead he is merely sustaining it.

At what point would you have started Palmer? Or benched him? Palmer is the future QB of this team. The 1-3 start is far from being all Palmer's fault.

I still like Lewis (to a point), and I do like some of the things that he's done, and I am also aware of the fact that the defensive injuries have contributed to the lousy start, but when your offense can't get it going with the rookie and you have a QB on the bench who had a career year last year, why do you continue to play the rookie? Because as much as benching him might ruin his confidence, being the QB who continually folds under pressure and helps to take down what should be the up-and-coming team of the 2004 season will do the exact same thing.

What makes you think our record would be any different with Kitna starting? Does he play defense? I don't see Palmer folding under pressure. Yes, he made some rookie mistakes, but the o-line has got to give him more time. If all starters are back and not rusty we'll see how it goes against Cleveland this Sunday.

Mike Brown is an idiot, which we all know, but Lewis has also bought into what he has been selling, so what does that make him at this point? Parcells came back with the condition that Jerry Jones stayed out of his personnel decisions and the coaching aspect, and Jones abided by that decision. Lewis made a decision that had Mike Brown written all over it, and now we're 1-3.

Parcells is a proven Head Coach having taken the Giants and Patriots to the Super Bowl and the Jets and Cowboys into the playoffs. Marvin Lewis was a first year head coach looking for a shot. How much could he have demanded back in the '02-'03 off season? Still, Mike Brown listened to Marvin on a lot of things: increasing the number of scouts, revamping the weight room, etc, etc. All of which cost Mike Brown money. We all know how much he loves spending money don't we?

So does this post make me a troll? I hope not. 

I don't think so, but you need to look into the details a little further IMO.

BungleBob and BungleNation,

I like both of your posts, guys. Good posts too. However, I have a couple of problems.

First BungleNation:

Why do you insist that Palmer is the problem??? Your ability to see through the Mike Brown smokescreens is very uncanny indeed. However, I'm not sure you're getting what is happening on the field. A big reason for Palmer's 7 INTs is because he's thrown the ball wayyyy more than any other QB in the NFL through 4 games!!!

There's no reason to get alarmed about Carson's playing. He's doing just fine for a 1st year player. Plus, there's no reason to think that the Bungles are going anywhere--so you might as well let Palmer take his learning lesson this year. That way you'll be prepared for 2005 with a QB with potential. Going back to kINTna at this point is useless. In fact, it would be a step back. Several steps back.

Like you stated, BN1281, kINTna had a

career year last year

and he still wasn't able to push the Bungles into the playoffs. Forget kINTna. He's a backup. A moot point. Concentrate more on the Offensive Playcalling and the Defense--mainly, the RUN DEFENSE!!!!!

Now BungleBob:

Marvin Lewis was a first year head coach looking for a shot. How much could he have demanded back in the '02-'03 off season? Still, Mike Brown listened to Marvin on a lot of things: increasing the number of scouts, revamping the weight room, etc, etc. All of which cost Mike Brown money.

This may be true. However, I believe that Lewis was desperate to get a Head Coaching Job. So desperate, that he took the position at the worst possible place in the NFL--the Bungles. Now, you see Lewis almost acting puppet-like sounding like a Mike Brown Clone. He's bought into the hype--but now, I'm not so sure that Marvin is still believing in it.

Sure, Mike Brown may have spent a little bit of his goldmine on the new weights, putting 1 or 2 more scouts into the "Scouting Department". However, Mike Brown needs to do more. He's still busy being a f**king cheapass.

But he doesn't have to spend anymore money this year--since Mike Brown had his "perfect 8-8 season" last year--he's got the SHEEP believing in playoffs again.

AND THE SHEEP PROVE WHY THEY'RE SHEEP--MIKE BROWN HAS THEM RETURNING TO PBS AGAIN!!!

Nice job, Sheople.

[kingwilly]

Barbarian...you sound like a miserable bitch.

First of all, the Dallas-Bengals comparison is not perfect but show the parallels between two team that made big turnarounds from the previous season, under circumstances that could be considered similar. You are quite quick to rip Lewis.

Your declaration,” Most Great Coordinators don't make Great Head Coaches" is an invalid statement.

First you do not specify what qualifies as "Great" for a coordinator or for a Head Coach. You leave that for us to assume that they went on to have either a winning record, make the playoffs, or go to the Super Bowl. Two of the below coaches took their teams and I do not consider them "Great Head Coaches or Great Coordinators". What are your criteria here?

Let's examine this a bit.

Here are the Head Coaches of the last several Super Bowls

Bill Belichick - John Fox

Jon Gruden - Bill Callahan

Bill Belichick - Mike Martz

Brian Billick - Jim Fassell

Now, take a close look and find the one who was never a Coordinator....

There isn't one, asshat, they all have been. I really do not consider Callahan or Fassell to be "Great Coaches" due to the fact that could not hold their teams together and get canned but they were pretty damn good, good enough to take teams to the Super Bowl.

Now, I take issue with your list:

Mike Martz is considered a "Great Coach" and with a 33-19 W/L that’s not too shabby. You may not like him or his style but, WTF, I consider that record and what he has done in STL to be great coaching. Give me a list of teams you do not want to play if you need a win and I bet STL is in the Top 5.

Dave Campo - was never even a great coordinator. Ray Rhodes would have made sense here but Campo was a 5'7" dork who couldn't coach his way out of a Tupperware party. One of Jerry Jones's "Yes" men.

Norv Turner - uh...what? He coordinated his way out of every job he had. He is neither. In Dallas he had the personnel. Every other job else was based on those glory days.

Dick LeBlow - His one Head Coaching chance came with the Bengals...I hardly hold that against him. Give him the Panthers and see where he could have taken them. The man is simply one of the best def. coaches in League history. His style does not always work in a young team but the man is proven.

Gunther Cunningham (already his defense is showing major improvement) - I see your sarcasm here and agree. This one makes sense.

Barbarian, give us a fully formed theory and back it up if you are going to toss it around as fact. Speaking of facts, as supported by reading your posts, I think you are like a whiny bitch who complains about everything.

Damn, dude, cheer up.