Camp Cut Surprise

[HoosierCat]

It's a bit early, but we're coming up on the first preseason game & the first big cut-down day is only 3 weeks hence. Any thoughts on surprise cuts to come? I have a few possibilities in mind:

Tony Williams. I think the Steele signing is a shot across his bows. Tony couldn't get to the QB or stop the run last year; Steele can stop the run and if he were a full-time starter would probably stumble into as many sacks as Tony did last year (2). And since neither is likely to be around next year except as a cheap backup, why not take the guy who can at least stop the run? Tony has to show something in preseason or he's out.

Rogers Beckett. I'm not sure what cap ramifications this has so it might not be feasible, but they were not particularly anxious to bring him back. Marvin prizes cover skills over run support in his safeties, and Beckett is an average cover guy at best. If Ratliff progresses quickly and Madieu Williams keeps doing what he's doing, I could see Beckett getting his ticket punched. If Marvin feels the need to put an 8th guy in the box he can line up Geathers or Patterson at safety.

Matt Schobel. Probably less of a surprise, given comments elsewhere on the board, seem to be off to a rough start. Clearly Whalen was brought in to push him. The thing is that neither seem to be able to stay healthy, and Whalen is lightweight, so in the end I think Matt survives.

Jeremi Johnson. Again, some people might not consider this a surprise. Apparently let himself go during the offseason and now needs to dump some pounds. That kind of stuff gets you deep in Marvin's doghouse. meanwhile Lynch has been playing well. Jeremi needs a good preseason to stay, I think.

Maurice Mann. Not that they don't want him but they have a talented pool of receivers and I think they try to sneak him onto the practice squad.

[jditty47]

i think mb 1 of your predictions will be right...mb schobel or mann.

Beckett, Williams, and Johnson - no way. I dont care about the minor negative reports about these 3. They will make the team.

[HoosierCat]

i think mb 1 of your predictions will be right...mb schobel or mann. 

Beckett, Williams, and Johnson - no way.  I dont care about the minor negative reports about these 3.  They will make the team.

Actually, I haven't heard "boo" about Beckett one way or the other so far in camp, so I have no idea how he's doing. With that, I was just thinking about how Marvin could hold onto both his DE projects, Patterson and Geathers. I don't think the practice squad is an option; I'm not sure if Elton is still eligible and they seem hot to use Geathers on special teams. But if (as Hobson thinks) they're only going to keep 8 d-linemen, then Marvin's in a bit of a jam.

Figure Thornton, Smith, Clemons and Askew are locks. Then at DT you have Scott, Williams and Moore, at DE Geathers and Patterson, and at DT/DE Powell and Steele. Unless Scott holds up the football, shouts "I have the power" and is transformed into He-DT by a giant lightning bolt, I think he's a goner. Moore, Geathers, Patterson and Powell are all Lewis pickups, he'll be reluctant to cut them. And releasing both Williams and Steele? No way, one will stay. So that means 9 d-linemen, which means someone has to go somewhere else. Beckett was a thought; a DE could play his run-stuffing position. Alternatively, they might go light at LB and use Geathers or Patterson situationally there.

Williams has had more than "minor negative reports." The only reason he's still in a Bengals uniform is Mikey's cheaping out on Sapp and Gardener's bad back. He's been dead man playing all offseason. I honestly think he needs a good camp & preseason to stick.

Jeremi flashed a lot of ability last season and I thought he was poised for great things (I've made comparisions to Pete Johnson regarding him, for heaven's sake). But I guarantee you Marvin is not going to put up with a lack of self-discipline. It's the foundation of his whole program. And fullback just isn't that crucial a position -- some teams don't even bother anymore -- nor does it appear Lynch would have a hard time filling it. I think JJ's in trouble, and I for one am sorry to see it. I like the kid.

[Kirkendall]

Matt Schobel. Probably less of a surprise, given comments elsewhere on the board, seem to be off to a rough start. Clearly Whalen was brought in to push him. The thing is that neither seem to be able to stay healthy, and Whalen is lightweight, so in the end I think Matt survives.

Probably won't happen, at least until the team feels comfertable with Kelly's return.

Fri Aug 6 2004 - Bengals TE Reggie Kelly underwent surgery on his thumb and will miss the next two weeks. He could be back for an Aug. 21st exhibition game. Tony Stewart and Matt Schobel will man the position.

[jjakq27]

Does anybody know what the actual first cut-down date is and how many have to go?

[HoosierCat]

They have to cut down to 65 by the 31st and 53 by September 5. I think they have (or are at least allowed) something like 85 guys in camp.

[HoosierCat]

Probably won't happen, at least until the team feels comfertable with Kelly's return.

Makes sense. On the other hand, I saw on bengals.com than Schobel was held out of practice because of -- yes, you guessed it! -- hammy problems. I really like Matt and would hate to see him cut but this hamstring thing is starting to look like a recurring problem that isn't going to go away.

[brian5562]

Not to be a jerk but why would we ever line up Geathers or Patterson at safety that is flat out stupid.

[Kirkendall]

Probably won't happen, at least until the team feels comfertable with Kelly's return.

On the other hand, I saw on bengals.com than Schobel was held out of practice because of -- yes, you guessed it! -- hammy problems.

Yea, you're right; his injuries are definitely a distraction to the development of this team... roster spot could be used for someone else. Hell we have 3 other TEs from last years roster -- if you consider St. Louis a TE.

It would be nice to have one full time TE rather than a rotation based on play calls -- hopefully Brat changes that up a little.

[HoosierCat]

Not to be a jerk but why would we ever line up Geathers or Patterson at safety that is flat out stupid.

Maybe it is...but on the other hand, why not? I have no doubt they could play the run support role that Beckett does, and he's only a fraction faster than either of them, despite being 50 lbs. lighter than both of them (4.59/40 vs 4.75 for Geathers and 4.96 for Patterson). Geathers would make the most sense, since he actually "bulked up" by about 25 lbs. before his junior year to get to his 270; he'd probably pick up some speed if he dropped back down. The two main questions are, could they match Beckett's average cover skills should opposing QBs test them, and could they play the run as well as Beckett. I think the latter a larger ??? than the former.

But in any event it was just a thought. As I said before, an even better idea is to go light at LB and slot one in (probably Geathers) in as a backup LB on the roster.

[schweinhart]

I thought Landon Johnson was going to be groomed as a Darryl Williams type at SS and was surprised to see him slotted at LB. He seemed to fill a need for the 8th in the box w/ pass coverage skills since he was considered the fastest LB in the draft. (A shoulder that pops in and out pretty much seems to have put an end to all of that).

Geathers is fast and has maxed out his frame at 270, which could make him a backup for Hardy. Still, Geathers seems more likely to be limited to special teams and maybe used as a speed pass rusher in place of Clemons.

IMO we won't see a starter like Beckett cut but could see Williams cut if a major force at DT gets cut from some other team and grabbed by the Bengals.

I'd still rather see Kelly cut than Schobel. But the more problems Schobel keeps having the harder it will be to keep him if Whalen and Hayes impress.

[HoosierCat]

I thought Landon Johnson was going to be groomed as a Darryl Williams type at SS and was surprised to see him slotted at LB. He seemed to fill a need for the 8th in the box w/ pass coverage skills since he was considered the fastest LB in the draft. (A shoulder that pops in and out pretty much seems to have put an end to all of that).

Could be. I think the injury to Abdullah may have had something to do with it, too. We have far more depth at S than LB. BTW, Im a tad annoyed over Landon's shoulder problems; if this was a cronic thing, and it appears it is, I have to question why they took him so high. Did they not know?

Geathers is fast and has maxed out his frame at 270, which could make him a backup for Hardy. Still, Geathers seems more likely to be limited to special teams and maybe used as a speed pass rusher in place of Clemons.

I agree, he fits well there. I'm just trying to figure out how he gets shoehorned onto the roster if we only keep 8 on the DL.

IMO we won't see a starter like Beckett cut but could see Williams cut if a major force at DT gets cut from some other team and grabbed by the Bengals.

I dunno. I don't mean to turn into the Official Glenn Steele Pimp here, because the guy isn't all that, but I'm still not sold that he isn't better than Williams right now. Tony is free to kick a$$ in preseason and prove me wrong, tho. I'd like nothing better.

I'd still rather see Kelly cut than Schobel. But the more problems Schobel keeps having the harder it will be to keep him if Whalen and Hayes impress.

Kirk says Whalen is out at least for the TB game now with some kind of knee surgery. That may put an end to the "competition" at TE.

[ackley1]

Jeremi Johnson. Again, some people might not consider this a surprise. Apparently let himself go during the offseason and now needs to dump some pounds. That kind of stuff gets you deep in Marvin's doghouse. meanwhile Lynch has been playing well. Jeremi needs a good preseason to stay, I think.

I thought Jeremi Johnson was coming along well? I just don't see them getting rid of him. :player:

[wookie]

I think J. Johnson is going to be around for a while. He just has to stay in shape and not piss off Lewis. I think he has the potential to be one of the top FBs in the league. For a guy as heavy as he is he is very athletic, and his size allows him to blow up defenders when he's run blocking.

I think he stays.