braham, comparing webster to ray lewis

[roar loud]

Middle has Ray of hope

8-6-04, 8:30 a.m.

BY GEOFF HOBSON

Nate Webster

GEORGETOWN, Ky. -- The first day, Rich Braham tried to tear into Nate Webster’s helmet.

A few days later, Webster tried to crawl into Braham’s head.

A few days after that, Braham, the man who has been here the longest in the middle, had his mind set about Webster, the newest man in the middle.

You can watch Carson Palmer all you want this weekend in the Friday intrasquad scrimmage and Saturday’s Mock Game. But if you like defense and want to know how the Bengals have changed theirs, you’ll watch No. 52.

“I put him right there close to Ray Lewis,” said Braham after a week of finding out about the Bengals new middle linebacker. “I tell you what, if he continues to improve, I think he’ll be that caliber. ...More...

[hottub]

That was an impressive article. I've been skeptical about this year so far, and I believe that everybody is Ray Lewis during the off-season... but that article actually got my hopes up.

[JPW]

If you like defense and want to know how the Bengals have changed theirs, you’ll watch No. 52.

I'll be watching, come on Aug 15...

[IfItsBrownFlushItDown]

His attitude is just like Ray Lewis. Let's hope his stats are just as close!

[wookie]

He's been drawing comparisons to Lewis from the moment the Bengals brought him in, mostly because they're from the same area and played at Miami. This was the 1st I'd seen another player actually come out and say it though. Brahm's a reliable source having faced Lewis so many times. Lets hope Webster does keep improving and end up at that level.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Webster can't hold Lewis' jock.

I just hope Nate can back up his smack talk with production and results on the field. No doubt that defense needs a vocal leader that guys look up to, but that won't come until Webster proves himself.

[schweinhart]

I'll be watching, come on Aug 15...

No doubt. 4 p.m.

The Natester has got to be out of his mind about playing against his old team so he can show them what they're missing out on.

[wookie]

Webster can't hold Lewis' jock.

With the exception of maybe Brian Urlacher which LB in the NFL can? We're talking potential here and not current skill level. No one said he was as good as Lewis right now.

[Staticx682004]

I have followed this guy his whole career,he will be very good. When he did start in tampa he led the team in tackles..There is great talent in tampa and for him to lead the team in tackles he will be very good. Let him get the system down.....

[skyline]

I just hope Nate can back up his smack talk with production and results on the field. No doubt that defense needs a vocal leader that guys look up to, but that won't come until Webster proves himself.

Webster's really not saying much, which I like. In fact, he said in the article, that he'd rather not talk about it, and just go do it.

Good stuff.

[Barbarian]

Webster can't hold Lewis' jock.

I just hope Nate can back up his smack talk with production and results on the field. No doubt that defense needs a vocal leader that guys look up to, but that won't come until Webster proves himself.

I will also agree with this!!!

If Webster was that great, then he would have replaced Shelton Quarles down in Tampa Bay. Gruden & Co knew that Webster was expendable. Quarles is getting older too. You would think that Tampa would have kept Webster around if he was ALL THAT to replace Quarles.

I'll just go out on a limb and say that Nate Webster couldn't dead lift Shelton Quarles' jock let alone Da' Killa's!!!

Come on, homers--this is not even PRESEASON YET and already you're comparing a "what if" guy to a HALL OF FAMER.

Get off it.

[WhoDeyNow]

Ray Lewis will go down as arguably the greatest LB of all time. And Nate Webster, a backup for his entire four season career, is going to be just as good as him this upcoming season, his first time starting?

I want to see Webster succeed just as much as the next guy, but lets not get out of hand.

[JPW]

Come on, homers--this is not even PRESEASON YET and already you're comparing a "what if" guy to a HALL OF FAMER. 

Get off it.

Let's not forget that it was Braham who made that statement not someone from these Boards.

“I put him right there close to Ray Lewis,” said Braham after a week of finding out about the Bengals new middle linebacker. “I tell you what, if he continues to improve, I think he’ll be that caliber"

Maybe you should e-mail any "Homer" comments to Braham ?

Personally I am just glad that we finally have a guy who is a Real ILB playing the position.

And what the hell, if he is even 1/2 as good as Lewis he will be a major upgrade at the position.

Like I said, I'll be Watching to see...........

[skyline]

Come on, homers--this is not even PRESEASON YET and already you're comparing a "what if" guy to a HALL OF FAMER. 

Get off it.

Let's not forget that it was Braham who made that statement not someone from these Boards.

“I put him right there close to Ray Lewis,” said Braham after a week of finding out about the Bengals new middle linebacker. “I tell you what, if he continues to improve, I think he’ll be that caliber"

Maybe you should e-mail any "Homer" comments to Braham ?

Personally I am just glad that we finally have a guy who is a Real ILB playing the position.

And what the hell, if he is even 1/2 as good as Lewis he will be a major upgrade at the position.

Like I said, I'll be Watching to see...........

Thank you. We're not homers simple because we're happy to see something good about a guy coming out of training camp. I'm glad that Braham is making the comparison, even if it isn't yet deserved. Webster is impressing someone, and that can't be a bad thing.

[wookie]

Agreed, we need something to be optimistic about when it comes to our D... and hearing good things about a FA pickup is always a good thing. As far as Shelton Quarles getting his starting job back...here's a bio on him:

PRO

Poised leader who mans the middle linebacker position with a combination of athleticism and intelligence for one of the NFL’s top defenses… Made a seamless transition to the middle linebacker position en route to earning his first Pro Bowl selection in 2002... Defensive leader who displays outstanding playmaking skills for the Super Bowl XXXVII champion Buccaneers... Utilizes great speed and athleticism to run down defenders from sideline-to-sideline... Cerebral player who spends significant time in the film room… Finished second on the club with a career-high 159 tackles and added a personal-best two interceptions in 2002... Quarterback of the defense who calls the defensive signals and fits perfectly in the Buccaneers’ scheme.... Has played all three linebacker positions and started at the strongside spot for three seasons (1999-2001).... Earned starting SLB role in 1999 after seeing significant action as one of Tampa Bay’s top special teams performers... Has started in 70 games and amassed 472 tackles over the past five campaigns... His 31 special teams tackles in 1999 are a club record... Career totals include 490 tackles and 77 special teams stops... Also has posted one forced fumble, six fumble recoveries and 15 passes defensed... Has added four career INTs, including two returned for TDs... Had a 25-yard INT return for a score at Cincinnati (9/29/02) and owns the longest play in team history with a 98-yard interception return for a touchdown against Green Bay (10/7/01)... Has played in 105 career games with 70 starts... Also played in nine playoff games with six starts... Played first two professional seasons in the CFL prior to making the jump to the NFL

Seems pretty good to me, I wouldn't be looking to replace him after a Pro Bowl appearance just because he got hurt. The Bucs had an abundance of talent at LB and the Bengals were able to get a steal to help out their depleted LB corps.

He's not Ray Ray, may never be...but if his work ethic and drive stay at this level then our D will benefit from his being here. Now thats something to look forward to!! Who Dey!!! :player:

[Kirkendall]

I came into this discussion a little late, so forgive me if I say the same things.

I just have to say Ray Lewis is as good as his defensive lineman. For every great LBer, you have great defensive tackles (the most underrated position in the NFL). I think the question is, if Webster could be put in the Ravens system with the exact roster Lewis is on now, would he perform as the level Lewis does?

- Yea, sorry, I always come with those questions we all know can't be answered...

[Jam31]

I came into this discussion a little late, so forgive me if I say the same things.

I just have to say Ray Lewis is as good as his defensive lineman. For every great LBer, you have great defensive tackles (the most underrated position in the NFL). I think the question is, if Webster could be put in the Ravens system with the exact roster Lewis is on now, would he perform as the level Lewis does?

- Yea, sorry, I always come with those questions we all know can't be answered...

Seriously guys,

This is the funniest thing I have read all weekend.

Ray's linemen in front of him are ex-Bengal Kelly Gregg, Marques Douglass, and Anthony Weaver.

You do have a point about linemen being critical for a middle linebacker but this isn't 2000 when he had Goose and Big Sam in front of him.

If anything, the 3-4 we run is used to showcase Ray and Ed Hartwell as the major playmakers that they are.

Nate Webster may be a good linebacker but I wouldn't take him over ANY of our inside 'backers.

Just one Raven's fans opinion...

[Barbarian]

I came into this discussion a little late, so forgive me if I say the same things.

I just have to say Ray Lewis is as good as his defensive lineman.  For every great LBer, you have great defensive tackles (the most underrated position in the NFL).  I think the question is, if Webster could be put in the Ravens system with the exact roster Lewis is on now, would he perform as the level Lewis does? 

- Yea, sorry, I always come with those questions we all know can't be answered... 

Seriously guys,

This is the funniest thing I have read all weekend.

Ray's linemen in front of him are ex-Bengal Kelly Gregg, Marques Douglass, and Anthony Weaver.

You do have a point about linemen being critical for a middle linebacker but this isn't 2000 when he had Goose and Big Sam in front of him.

If anything, the 3-4 we run is used to showcase Ray and Ed Hartwell as the major playmakers that they are.

Nate Webster may be a good linebacker but I wouldn't take him over ANY of our inside 'backers.

Just one Raven's fans opinion...

I'll second that Jam31.

Ray Lewis is on the same level as Jack Lambert, Ray Nieshke (sp?), Jack Ham, and any other great linebacker you can think of.

Da Killa is a first year Hall of Famer. Nate Webster was a backup for 4 years.

In the 2000 season, Da Killa had Goose and Beer-gut in front of him.

However, there hasn't been THAT MUCH OF A DROPOFF SINCE THEY BOTH LEFT. Da Killa is still killing people like Vietnam out there on the field.

[wookie]

I'm sorry, but I've been on this thread for a bit and I can't seem to find where it says anything about Ray Lewis being a bad LB or over-rated. Maybe I'm missing something here, but all I've seen is good things about Ray Ray.

Being a Bengals fan and watching Lewis beat up your players twice a year puts us in the position to truly appreciate what the man can do on a football field.

The fact is that Brahm, and others, are giving Lewis more of a compliment than Webster in all of this. ALL THEY ARE SAYING IS THAT WEBSTER HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE AS GOOD AS LEWIS.....SOME DAY

Its like any young player at any position...Johnson could be the next Randy Moss or Jerry Rice...Palmer could be the next Brett Favre or Joe Montana. Its a compliment to Ray Lewis, his ability and his accomplishments in the NFL that young LBs are striving to be like him and reach that level.

Brahm could have easily used Urlacher's name, or Spikes, but he used Ray Lewis because he's the best now, maybe the best since Singletary, maybe the best ever, and that's what you want your players to strive for.

[Jam31]

I'm sorry, but I've been on this thread for a bit and I can't seem to find where it says anything about Ray Lewis being a bad LB or over-rated. Maybe I'm missing something here, but all I've seen is good things about Ray Ray.

Being a Bengals fan and watching Lewis beat up your players twice a year puts us in the position to truly appreciate what the man can do on a football field.

The fact is that Brahm, and others, are giving Lewis more of a compliment than Webster in all of this. ALL THEY ARE SAYING IS THAT WEBSTER HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE AS GOOD AS LEWIS.....SOME DAY

Its like any young player at any position...Johnson could be the next Randy Moss or Jerry Rice...Palmer could be the next Brett Favre or Joe Montana. Its a compliment to Ray Lewis, his ability and his accomplishments in the NFL that young LBs are striving to be like him and reach that level.

Brahm could have easily used Urlacher's name, or Spikes, but he used Ray Lewis because he's the best now, maybe the best since Singletary, maybe the best ever, and that's what you want your players to strive for.

I hear what you're saying but my point is, is that with any "great one" at a position, you don't just put any player's name in the same sentence.

He could have said Webster could be Urlacher or London Fletcher but you can't even put him in the same sentence as Ray Lewis.

It's doing The Greatest Linebacker Of All-Time a major disservice.

CJ to Moss is a stretch but believeable whereas saying that Webster could be Ray Lewis is like saying Will Demps could be the next Ronnie Lott.

It just doesn't compute...

[richmond_mat]

It's doing The Greatest Linebacker Of All-Time a major disservice.

A highly biased opinion wouldn't you say?

[wookie]

I hear what you're saying but my point is,is that with any "great one" at a position, you don't just put any player's name in the same sentence.

If the man wasn't on your team, would you still feel the same way?

I don't see anything wrong with putting anyone's name in there. If Webster works hard enough and has the ability why couldn't he reach that level? Your talking like Ray Lewis is supernatural and there can never be another like him and thats just not the case. It may not be Webster, probably won't be unless he's able to improve by leaps and bounds, but some day a young NFL LB will again be compared to Lewis and he just may meet or exceed those comparisons.

Remember, before Lewis was in the NFL there was LT...and there had never been a player like him in the NFL before, who would've thought someone would come along that played the position better?

And how can making the G.L.O.A.T. the pinnacle with which to compare LBs to be doing him an injustice?

[Barbarian]

I'm sorry, but I've been on this thread for a bit and I can't seem to find where it says anything about Ray Lewis being a bad LB or over-rated. Maybe I'm missing something here, but all I've seen is good things about Ray Ray.

Being a Bengals fan and watching Lewis beat up your players twice a year puts us in the position to truly appreciate what the man can do on a football field.

The fact is that Brahm, and others, are giving Lewis more of a compliment than Webster in all of this. ALL THEY ARE SAYING IS THAT WEBSTER HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE AS GOOD AS LEWIS.....SOME DAY

Its like any young player at any position...Johnson could be the next Randy Moss or Jerry Rice...Palmer could be the next Brett Favre or Joe Montana. Its a compliment to Ray Lewis, his ability and his accomplishments in the NFL that young LBs are striving to be like him and reach that level.

Brahm could have easily used Urlacher's name, or Spikes, but he used Ray Lewis because he's the best now, maybe the best since Singletary, maybe the best ever, and that's what you want your players to strive for.

I hear what you're saying but my point is, is that with any "great one" at a position, you don't just put any player's name in the same sentence.

He could have said Webster could be Urlacher or London Fletcher but you can't even put him in the same sentence as Ray Lewis.

It's doing The Greatest Linebacker Of All-Time a major disservice.

CJ to Moss is a stretch but believeable whereas saying that Webster could be Ray Lewis is like saying Will Demps could be the next Ronnie Lott.

It just doesn't compute...

I agree with all of this--with the major exception of calling Da Killa "the best LB of all time".

That's a little homeristic isn't it???

You put Da Killa above Jack Lambert??? Remember--Lambert weighed only 205....and "The Vampire of Pennsylvania" stuck fear into the hearts of every Offensive Lineman in the league at the time. The guy played tackle football on concrete.

I couldn't see Da Killa being tough enough to doing something like that. Committing felonies--sure....playing tackle football on concrete while wearing a faggoty-assed fur coat--HELL NO!!!!

[jrandom42]

He could have said Webster could be Urlacher or London Fletcher but you can't even put him in the same sentence as Ray Lewis.

It's doing The Greatest Linebacker Of All-Time a major disservice.

You mean to tell me that Ray Lewis is better than Willie Lanier, Mike Singeltary, Ray Nitschke, Dick Butkis, Jack Ham, Ted Hendricks, Bobby Bell, Nick Buoniconti, Chuck Bednarik AND Dave Wilcox?

By that measure, the Ravens should have had a dynasty, winning more consecutive Superbowls than any other team in history! Ray Lewis should have changed the nature of the game by your standards. Rules should have been passed to limit his dominance.

I see that none of that has ever come to pass. He may be a great player, he may be dominant in his position at this time in his career, but the greatest ever?

Call me when they pass rules to slow him down, and he gets voted into the Hall of Fame as an active player.

[Jam31]

I agree with all of this--with the major exception of calling Da Killa "the best LB of all time".

That's a little homeristic isn't it???

Thanks guys, you all just proved my point.

My statement is no more ridiculous than saying Nate Webster could be as good as Ray Lewis. Its ridiculous...

As hot and bothered as you guys got when I say he IS the greatest linebacker of all time is the same way I react when you even mention Webster in the same sentence as Ray.

At least Ray has a resume, Webster has had one good year on a losing team.