Palmer will decide his own fate.... by way of Mike Brown

[ArmyBengal]

I have no problem believing Mike Brown would let Palmer retire, but people are confused when they say he should "force" Palmer to retire.

He has no leverage to do so. He can trade him or not, but it's Palmer's choice to either play or retire.

Gizzle is just giving his opinion and i've never said he's not entitled to it, I simply disagree.

I think his opinion gets the best of him sometimes and equates directly to how much sh*t he takes on this board.

Saying Palmer is garbage and can't win elsewhere without giving any real reason, is baseless.

Example... I hate Chad with every fiber of my being. I hate that he is a part of this organization. I hate the player he became. I hate that he focuses on everything but making this team better. So on and so on. That being said, I can't let my hate for him cloud the thought that he could certainly help another team at the WR position and be productive. Same can be said of Palmer. The question becomes, what is another team willing to pay for that production.

There are articles coming out now that teams aren't willing to give up a 1st for Kolb because of his body of work or more importantly, LACK of a body of work. Palmer on the other hand has had success (up for discussion) against one of the toughest divisions in the league and has had to deal with some crazy players and situations since being here. Put Palmer in a situation with less chaos, where he truly wants to be and I think you will find a team willing to pay for what he could potentially bring them.

I still say the 49er's would love to have him. Not because that's one of the place he would like to go, but rather they have built a young o-line with 1st round picks, have a RB like Gore, a TE like Davis, and enough WR's to get him through quite well. You say Crabtree is a diva ?? Well, he's had to deal with that as well. The defense is being built as well and they play in one of the weakest divisions in the league. I think he takes them to the playoffs in his first season. I could be wrong, but those are my reasons for thinking so. Well, that and his production numbers during his time here.

[BengalPimp]

Oh, he has every right to quit if he decides to. That's not my argument.

I can quit my teaching position in the middle of the school year should I choose to do so. That doesn't make it the honorable thing to do.

May I equate the end of the football season for this purpose with the end of the school year?

If so, he did not quit in the middle of the season, he quit after the season had been completed.

If you decided to quit teaching, what would be the honorable time to quit - wouldn't it be immediately at the end of the school year, to give your employer the maximum amount of time to seek an adequate replacement?

If your answer is 'Yes' - and I think it will be - then please note, this is exactly what Palmer did.

good point

[BengalPimp]

I have no problem believing Mike Brown would let Palmer retire, but people are confused when they say he should "force" Palmer to retire.

He has no leverage to do so. He can trade him or not, but it's Palmer's choice to either play or retire.

Gizzle is just giving his opinion and i've never said he's not entitled to it, I simply disagree.

I think his opinion gets the best of him sometimes and equates directly to how much sh*t he takes on this board.

Saying Palmer is garbage and can't win elsewhere without giving any real reason, is baseless.

Example... I hate Chad with every fiber of my being. I hate that he is a part of this organization. I hate the player he became. I hate that he focuses on everything but making this team better. So on and so on. That being said, I can't let my hate for him cloud the thought that he could certainly help another team at the WR position and be productive. Same can be said of Palmer. The question becomes, what is another team willing to pay for that production.

There are articles coming out now that teams aren't willing to give up a 1st for Kolb because of his body of work or more importantly, LACK of a body of work. Palmer on the other hand has had success (up for discussion) against one of the toughest divisions in the league and has had to deal with some crazy players and situations since being here. Put Palmer in a situation with less chaos, where he truly wants to be and I think you will find a team willing to pay for what he could potentially bring them.

I still say the 49er's would love to have him. Not because that's one of the place he would like to go, but rather they have built a young o-line with 1st round picks, have a RB like Gore, a TE like Davis, and enough WR's to get him through quite well. You say Crabtree is a diva ?? Well, he's had to deal with that as well. The defense is being built as well and they play in one of the weakest divisions in the league. I think he takes them to the playoffs in his first season. I could be wrong, but those are my reasons for thinking so. Well, that and his production numbers during his time here.

Agreed, and where teams may balk at giving up a 1st for Kolb because of his "lack of a body of work" They definitely would be open to giving that up for a proven QB who has a couple of Pro Bowls and a couple of Division Championships under his belt (for a franchise like the Bengals no less)

The thing that would concern me is: If he goes to a team like the 49ers, he would MOST LIKELY turn what would be a top 12 pick (based on what they are without him) into like a 23rd pick. I'd like to see him go to Buffalo or something where we know we'll get a Top 10 pick......but you gotta take what you can get.

[BengalPimp]

[

[agreen_112]

There's 31 LOSING teams a year. Palmer is a LOSER straight up. Get past the numbers dude. Watch the film.

Ok... but based on that argument, Palmer is no more a loser than your boy Chad.

I don't really have a problem with you having strong opinions. But your continual claims that you know football when others don't isn't an argument. You never bring evidence to the table. You just spout off opinions... and when someone does bring evidence to refute your opinions, you never actually respond to it. You just say things like "Watch the film" but you never actually bring any facts to the table. Anyone can say s**t like that.

But my favorite thing is how you claim that Palmer has been "done" since '06... but you thought he deserved to be in the ProBowl in '09.

So what, call me a fanboy. I support our "players." Carson is no longer one of us. My opinion on Palmer is based on inside information. I got the tip and I agree with MB in this situation.

[agreen_112]

Trust me, MB isn't going to let a player "win" in this situation. I got respect for that.

I can't remember, but did you take Mike Brown's side when your main man Chad was the guy screaming for a trade? I suspect you'd take Chad's side, but I can't recall. For the record, you're right, Carson's skills have deteriorated badly. Also you're right that he's not a leader, if he were he would have knocked Chad's gold teeth down his throat about 20 times in the last 6 years.

Don't you go pissing me off Central jk.. I don't think I went on the record and supported MB's decision in dealing with Ocho but I did agree with it. I didn't want Chad to leave. He was disgruntled and called out the front office. If you remember he said "They are not doing what it takes to win." To me this meant they were not spending enough money to bring in impact veterans through free agency. MB got the message and went out and found some talent.

To make a long story short, I supported Chad and I was ready to let him go. He was unhappy and it was understandable. At the same time, I really didn't want him to leave. When MB announced that he wouldn't trade Chad, I supported that decision. It was the smart thing to do just like it is the smart thing to do in this situation with Palmer.

[agreen_112]

I'm saying F*ck him, let him retire. Why would MB trade him for a 5th-7th round pick when he has so much invested in Palmer? Palmer is has no honor. We've tried to shop him, nobody is willing to give up a 1st round draft pick... Trust me, MB isn't going to let a player "win" in this situation. I got respect for that.

I guess when you get past the numbers Army and you actually have a really good understanding of how the game is played it makes it easier to spot trash or talent. Palmer is another Elvis Gerback lol.

So what his numbers show he's in the Top 10. There's 31 LOSING teams a year. Palmer is a LOSER straight up. Get past the numbers dude. Watch the film. I don't care if he's throwing to Ocho or Simpson. He's inconsistant, that's all that proves in my opinion. Numbers aren't s**t, winning is everything in any sport. You play to win. Palmer is not a winner and I will bank that he does NOT go to another team after he comes out of retirement and lead them to a SB.

Palmer has a lot on his plate right now. He chose his fate. He should've talked it over with his agent before he went in this direction. I highly doubt he will retire though.

To start, I made a comment a few posts ago about how you aren't bringing anything to this conversation outside of opinion.

A baseless opinion that you haven't and more importantly CAN'T defend and a reason you get so much sh*t on this forum.

Before I even typed this response, you have other members giving you sh*t.

Now, I never claimed Palmer should be traded for a 5th, 7th, or whatever. I've claimed all along the Bengals could and should hold out for at least a first. I've given all the reason for that opinion and backed it up with his production. Production you have overlooked with every word you type. The other thought you have failed to consider is the defense Palmer has been working with. After having a top 5 defense in a season he led, YES LED, the team to an AFCN championship, the defense dropped off. THIS as well has an impact on the offense. No, it doesn't make him over and under throw a ball, but it is in fact a consideration.

Why is it you haven't bothered to answer any of the questions I've posed to support my opinion anyway ?? Not once.

Wow, winning is everything in any sport ?? No sh*t huh ??

You play to win ?? Some insightful sh*t right there.

You really do deserve all the sh*t you get on this forum...

I stopped reading when you mention production.... This game is about winning. Palmer is a loser, it is proven. FACT. There it is. What more do you need? I'm saying that my insider said that Palmer has been discussed about with other teams and there is no way in HELL we get a 1st round pick. Realistically, we're looking at late 5th-7th round pick, a 3rd would be stretching it.

[agreen_112]

My source says

Yeah, I love how everyone and their mother is an "insider" this year...

Ask around about my history HoosierCat, I've never lied or been wrong about other tips.

there is a radio show in col, oh 97.1 the fan. it is on espn radio from 3-6pm there are a couple of host on the show torg and the common man. these guys talk to former and current nfl players and coaches all the time. they even talk to guys like chris motrensen and adam schefter.

the funny thing is one of the host, the common man claims he knows for a fact there is a first rd pick on the table for carson. now these guys are a bit over the top and can be very irritating. they do not make false claims on players information and are very reliable with the information they do report. so who am i suppose to believe? you a guy on the fan forum, or guys that are connected to real nfl player and analyst?

The truth is that Radio host do whatever to get a buzz. The more calls, emails, tweets (negative or positive) the better the ratings.. IE they get to keep a job. Those clowns don't know what they're talking about. Its BUZZ! This is real inside info that MB is ready to let Palmer retire. The only way that changes is if some stupid owner offers us a 1st round pick. But like I've already said, we've tried and no one is willing.

[derekshank]

I stopped reading when you mention production....

Question: Does Gizzle reference production and stats any time he praises Chad and T.O.?

Answer: Yes

Question: Does Gizzle ignore production and stats any time he wants to bad-mouth Palmer?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Is that a double standard?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Does Gizzle claim to know all about football without demonstrating that he knows anything about football?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Is Gizzle a douche nozzle?

Answer: Yes.

[derekshank]

The truth is that Radio host do whatever to get a buzz. The more calls, emails, tweets (negative or positive) the better the ratings.

You live in Cincy, right? So you have no idea what kind of radio show the Common Man & The Torg have. They are owned by the Columbus Dispatch, and if they spouted nonsense without being able to back up their claims, they'd be sued and would lose their jobs. They actually sit on stories for months to verify details before mentioning it. They are not ProFootballTalk.com.

You don't know s**t about their radio show, so shut the f**k up.

But like I've already said, we've tried and no one is willing.

Now what are you saying? First you said MB was going to let Palmer retire and wouldn't entertain offers. Now you're saying MB has already tried to trade him. Which is it?

You're talking out of your ass... because there is no CBA. There are no trades. And even if GMs were talking about making a trade for Palmer, they couldn't be serious talks until they know the specifics of the CBA. So again... shut the f**k up.

[ArmyBengal]

I stopped reading when you mention production....

Of course you stopped reading when I mention it because there's no way for you to argue that fact.

Sure the game is about winning, but at the same time how a player "produces" factors into how others teams view him as well.

Look at Trent Dilfer. The guy won a Super Bowl, but would you want him as the QB of your team ??

Thanks for answering all of the questions that directly challenge your opinion as well !!!

Nothing like only arguing the bits and pieces of your rant of your choosing.

[agreen_112]

The truth is that Radio host do whatever to get a buzz. The more calls, emails, tweets (negative or positive) the better the ratings.

You live in Cincy, right? So you have no idea what kind of radio show the Common Man & The Torg have. They are owned by the Columbus Dispatch, and if they spouted nonsense without being able to back up their claims, they'd be sued and would lose their jobs. They actually sit on stories for months to verify details before mentioning it. They are not ProFootballTalk.com.

You don't know s**t about their radio show, so shut the f**k up.

But like I've already said, we've tried and no one is willing.

Now what are you saying? First you said MB was going to let Palmer retire and wouldn't entertain offers. Now you're saying MB has already tried to trade him. Which is it?

You're talking out of your ass... because there is no CBA. There are no trades. And even if GMs were talking about making a trade for Palmer, they couldn't be serious talks until they know the specifics of the CBA. So again... shut the f**k up.

You shut the f**k up. You don't know what you're talking about. I never said MB wouldn't entertain offers. Read the OP. I said he wouldn't get a trade and that MB is gonna play hard ball. The reason he won't get a trade is because wehave spoke to GM's, they're not intersted in a1st rnd pick for Palmer.

Marvin said just the other day Palmer is our starter if he's here. That's hardball. The ball is in Palmers court, we will NOT be trading him for a worthless draft pick(s).

Now shut the f**k up you simple dodo.

[agreen_112]

I stopped reading when you mention production....

Of course you stopped reading when I mention it because there's no way for you to argue that fact.

Sure the game is about winning, but at the same time how a player "produces" factors into how others teams view him as well.

Look at Trent Dilfer. The guy won a Super Bowl, but would you want him as the QB of your team ??

Thanks for answering all of the questions that directly challenge your opinion as well !!!

Nothing like only arguing the bits and pieces of your rant of your choosing.

Fair enough but you're missing the point. We're talking about a trade for Palmer. A losing QB, with dwindling capability and average QB rating on a passing offense. He's not worth a first round and he's not worth losing everything we hve invested for a crap pick either. Best case scenario, Palmer stays. Worst case, he retires. That's his option right now. If he was smart he would play it out one more year and try to "produce" some wins.

[TJJackson]

call me a fanboy.

I call you what you are - a freakin moron.

[TJJackson]

I stopped reading when you mention production....

Question: Does agreen/Gizzle reference production and stats any time he praises Chad and T.O.?

Answer: Yes

Question: Does agreen/Gizzle ignore production and stats any time he wants to bad-mouth Palmer?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Is that a double standard?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Does agreen/Gizzle claim to know all about football without demonstrating that he knows anything about football?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Is agreen/Gizzle a douche nozzle?

Answer: Yes.

this

thanks Derek

[agreen_112]

call me a fanboy.

I call you what you are - a freakin moron.

Love you

[TJJackson]

call me a fanboy.

I call you what you are - a freakin moron.

Love you

Given your evident homosexual leanings, I've little doubt of that....

[derekshank]

You shut the f**k up. You don't know what you're talking about. I never said MB wouldn't entertain offers. Read the OP. I said he wouldn't get a trade and that MB is gonna play hard ball. The reason he won't get a trade is because wehave spoke to GM's, they're not intersted in a1st rnd pick for Palmer.

Marvin said just the other day Palmer is our starter if he's here. That's hardball. The ball is in Palmers court, we will NOT be trading him for a worthless draft pick(s).

Now shut the f**k up you simple dodo.

I'm sorry. I misunderstood. So... your insider information is nothing? You're just telling us information we've known for months, that we heard directly from Mike Brown's mouth? That it isn't likely that Palmer will be traded because there isn't good value out there?

In that case... I apologize. Your sources are strong, but about 3 months late.

While we're on the topic... I also have some breaking news:

It turns out Rudi Johnson is likely to be cut, giving Chris Perry a chance to start. If that doesn't pan out, my sources tell me the Bengals will offer problem-child Cedric Benson a contract. Compelling rumors here from my secret insider sources!

[ArmyBengal]

I stopped reading when you mention production....

Of course you stopped reading when I mention it because there's no way for you to argue that fact.

Sure the game is about winning, but at the same time how a player "produces" factors into how others teams view him as well.

Look at Trent Dilfer. The guy won a Super Bowl, but would you want him as the QB of your team ??

Thanks for answering all of the questions that directly challenge your opinion as well !!!

Nothing like only arguing the bits and pieces of your rant of your choosing.

Fair enough but you're missing the point. We're talking about a trade for Palmer. A losing QB, with dwindling capability and average QB rating on a passing offense. He's not worth a first round and he's not worth losing everything we hve invested for a crap pick either. Best case scenario, Palmer stays. Worst case, he retires. That's his option right now. If he was smart he would play it out one more year and try to "produce" some wins.

Ok then, here's another question you aren't likely to answer.

You do understand there are more people to consider for why a QB may be a "losing QB" right ??

I say this because your boy Chad surely hasn't helped him with that whole "winning" thing you speak of.

[BengalPimp]

. The only way that changes is if some stupid owner offers us a 1st round pick. But like I've already said, we've tried and no one is willing.

Really? When did they "try"??? The Lockout prevented any player trades (and thus any discussions of trades) when it went into effect March 12th. So before March 12th? You mean a month and a half before the Draft? Because yeah, things happen a month and a half before the draft rather than the week leading up to it....Sure.

You don't think things are different NOW? You don't think there are teams that struck out at QB in the draft (Arizona, Washington, Seattle)) and others that reached for players in RD 2 that they are not fully confident in only because they were unable to trade for a Veteran? You honestly believe that the 49ers wouldnt have given up their 2nd Rd pick (which they took Kaepernick) or a 1st for an established Carson Palmer that would help them win TODAY?

If you think that Mike Brown really ever tried, you're nuts, because at first he had hopes of Palmer playing, then the lockout on March 12th prevented that, and teams were gunshy about trading anybody with the lockout looming (same reason Kolb didn't get dealt)

My "Inside Source" is a flippin newspaper that tells me there are still NFL teams desperate for a QB......and would be MORE THAN willing to work out a trade just as soon as they know how the new CBA will affect them.