The curse of Bo

[jjakq27]

The Bengals appearance in the AFC playoff game in 1991 was one of the last significant accomplishments of Paul Brown as general manager of the team prior to his passing later that summer. Thus began the 20 year reign of his son Mike.

I would like to propose some sort of exorcism or rite to lift the curse that has plagued our football team since then.

[Sea Ray]

I'd say Bo was more cursed than we are. At least we're not walking around with an artificial hip. It's all relative

[ben]

The Bengals appearance in the AFC playoff game in 1991 was one of the last significant accomplishments of Paul Brown as general manager of the team prior to his passing later that summer. Thus began the 20 year reign of his son Mike.

I would like to propose some sort of exorcism or rite to lift the curse that has plagued our football team since then.

mmmmmmmm... May the demons that have cast themselves on this franchise be gone! Gone are the days of Gus Frerotte throwing an interception with his left hand, or Kijana Carter sliding feet first on a kickoff return.May the football gods smile on Mike Brown today and instead of the words we have the 10th best scouting department say the words i'm going to hire a GM. Mike Brown has seen the light! i can feel it! Good news coming Monday ! get ready.

[cincyhokie]

The Bengals appearance in the AFC playoff game in 1991 was one of the last significant accomplishments of Paul Brown as general manager of the team prior to his passing later that summer. Thus began the 20 year reign of his son Mike.

I would like to propose some sort of exorcism or rite to lift the curse that has plagued our football team since then.

The curse of Bo Jackson is no curse. It's all Mikey.

[kingwilly]

curse or not, I am all for some bloodletting to "help". May the offering start up high in the corner office at PBS.

[jjakq27]

Please know that I use the word curse loosely. To my knowledge Bo has never spoken ill of the Bengals or Kevin Walker for his injury. But sadly when compared to the inconsistent success of the 80's, the fate of this franchise took an obvious nosedive immediately after this incident. PB's passing, the revelation of the Victoria C incident and Sam Wyche's firing/resignation was just the beginning.

/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjO_QfFYV78

I think 20 years is enough pain and suffering for our fanbase. Time to put the curse to rest. (Insert your favorite incantation here_________________________).

:rip::angel:

[HairOnFire]

Relax.

To cast off the curse of Bo Jackson the Bengals sacrificed a pig, two goats, and the entire 2010 season.

From here on out we're golden.

[BengalszoneBilly]

From here on out we're golden.

We need a "dripping with sarcasm" smilie in the worst way.

[HairOnFire]

From here on out we're golden.

We need a "dripping with sarcasm" smilie in the worst way.

The dripping sarcasm smilie is implied.......in everything I write.

[walzav29]

Paul Brown ran them mind you an expansion team 162-161-1

His dumb kid - 115-211-1

On a psychological level, maybe Mike Brown didn't get enough attention from his dad as a kid, so he destroys something that meant so much to his father as a way to get even.Like from the movie Ferris Bueller.

Cameron's dad's Ferrari = Bengals

Cameron = Mike Brown

[jjakq27]

Paul Brown ran them mind you an expansion team 162-161-1

His dumb kid - 115-211-1

On a psychological level, maybe Mike Brown didn't get enough attention from his dad as a kid, so he destroys something that meant so much to his father as a way to get even.Like from the movie Ferris Bueller.

Cameron's dad's Ferrari = Bengals

Cameron = Mike Brown

I think PB had a son named Robin. He passed away at some point in the 1970's. I believe he was the one with the FB smarts. I think Mike was the legal eagle in the family that became the heir apparent by default.

Also, you make an interesing point about PB's record. I would love to know what his record was after he retired in 1975. Sadly I don't think it is much better than his son's. He did get to the Super Bowl twice and make the playoffs two other years, but I seem to recall the same inconsistency from year to year that we have now.

[walzav29]

Paul Brown ran them mind you an expansion team 162-161-1

His dumb kid - 115-211-1

On a psychological level, maybe Mike Brown didn't get enough attention from his dad as a kid, so he destroys something that meant so much to his father as a way to get even.Like from the movie Ferris Bueller.

Cameron's dad's Ferrari = Bengals

Cameron = Mike Brown

I think PB had a son named Robin. He passed away at some point in the 1970's. I believe he was the one with the FB smarts. I think Mike was the legal eagle in the family that became the heir apparent by default.

Also, you make an interesing point about PB's record. I would love to know what his record was after he retired in 1975. Sadly I don't think it is much better than his son's. He did get to the Super Bowl twice and make the playoffs two other years, but I seem to recall the same inconsistency from year to year that we have now.

I assumed he was the GM though the whole time. Unless I'm mistaken.

[jjakq27]

Paul Brown ran them mind you an expansion team 162-161-1

His dumb kid - 115-211-1

On a psychological level, maybe Mike Brown didn't get enough attention from his dad as a kid, so he destroys something that meant so much to his father as a way to get even.Like from the movie Ferris Bueller.

Cameron's dad's Ferrari = Bengals

Cameron = Mike Brown

I think PB had a son named Robin. He passed away at some point in the 1970's. I believe he was the one with the FB smarts. I think Mike was the legal eagle in the family that became the heir apparent by default.

Also, you make an interesing point about PB's record. I would love to know what his record was after he retired in 1975. Sadly I don't think it is much better than his son's. He did get to the Super Bowl twice and make the playoffs two other years, but I seem to recall the same inconsistency from year to year that we have now.

I assumed he was the GM though the whole time. Unless I'm mistaken.

I believe he was whether by title or otherwise but I was thinking the period after he stepped down. They made the playoffs 3 times in 6 years (1970, 1973, 1975) and four in the seventeen years after.

[cincy9275]

a bo jackson curse nope. this is all mike brown nothing more, don't go blaming this and that the fact is it all mikey boy!

[HairOnFire]

I assumed he was the GM though the whole time. Unless I'm mistaken.

FWIW Paul Brown was adamant about the first Bengals Super Bowl team being his creation, built with pieces he alone selected for roles that fit into a design he directed. By the same token he steadfastly claimed the second Bengal team to reach the Super Bowl was almost totally built by his son. In fact, by 1988 Paul repeatedly claimed he had handed over so much responsbility to his son that his own role had been reduced to that of advisor. Whenever interviewed before or after that game he always deferred credit to his son, claiming the titles he retained were largely symbolic and meant to appease stockholders and fans.

In hindsight whether you agree or disagree hardly matters with the exception of one very important consideration. That being, when discussing his record Mike Brown has always insisted his NFL clock started running in the late 1950's, that he was instrumental in bringing a franchise to Cincinnati, and as a defacto GM he's already built a team that reached the Super Bowl.

Last point. I have never doubted that the '88 team was Mike's creation precisely because he's never given anyone reason to believe it wasn't. Granted, his efforts to repeat that teams success have failed miserably, but regardless, the blueprint he used then has barely changed.

"We look like we wanted to look." --- Mike Brown, just prior to the start of the 2010 season

[jjakq27]

I assumed he was the GM though the whole time. Unless I'm mistaken.

FWIW Paul Brown was adamant about the first Bengals Super Bowl team being his creation, built with pieces he alone selected for roles that fit into a design he directed. By the same token he steadfastly claimed the second Bengal team to reach the Super Bowl was almost totally built by his son. In fact, by 1988 Paul repeatedly claimed he had handed over so much responsbility to his son that his own role had been reduced to that of advisor. Whenever interviewed before or after that game he always deferred credit to his son, claiming the titles he retained were largely symbolic and meant to appease stockholders and fans.

In hindsight whether you agree or disagree hardly matters with the exception of one very important consideration. That being, when discussing his record Mike Brown has always insisted his NFL clock started running in the late 1950's, that he was instrumental in bringing a franchise to Cincinnati, and as a defacto GM he's already built a team that reached the Super Bowl.

Last point. I have never doubted that the '88 team was Mike's creation precisely because he's never given anyone reason to believe it wasn't. Granted, his efforts to repeat that teams success have failed miserably, but regardless, the blueprint he used then has barely changed.

"We look like we wanted to look." --- Mike Brown, just prior to the start of the 2010 season

Interesting perspective on MB.

And they are who we thought they were.

[cincyhokie]

I assumed he was the GM though the whole time. Unless I'm mistaken.

FWIW Paul Brown was adamant about the first Bengals Super Bowl team being his creation, built with pieces he alone selected for roles that fit into a design he directed. By the same token he steadfastly claimed the second Bengal team to reach the Super Bowl was almost totally built by his son. In fact, by 1988 Paul repeatedly claimed he had handed over so much responsbility to his son that his own role had been reduced to that of advisor. Whenever interviewed before or after that game he always deferred credit to his son, claiming the titles he retained were largely symbolic and meant to appease stockholders and fans.

In hindsight whether you agree or disagree hardly matters with the exception of one very important consideration. That being, when discussing his record Mike Brown has always insisted his NFL clock started running in the late 1950's, that he was instrumental in bringing a franchise to Cincinnati, and as a defacto GM he's already built a team that reached the Super Bowl.

Last point. I have never doubted that the '88 team was Mike's creation precisely because he's never given anyone reason to believe it wasn't. Granted, his efforts to repeat that teams success have failed miserably, but regardless, the blueprint he used then has barely changed.

"We look like we wanted to look." --- Mike Brown, just prior to the start of the 2010 season

Interesting perspective on MB.

And they are who we thought they were.

The problem is that the NFL drastically changed with plan B free agency shortly after Superbowl 23. Mike Brown in all of his hereditary innovation attributes passed down to him from his father...has never adjusted. Mike Brown can and did have a hand in running some successul teams in the 1980's. The problem is that it's not 1988 anymore.

[jjakq27]

The problem is that the NFL drastically changed with plan B free agency shortly after Superbowl 23. Mike Brown in all of his hereditary innovation attributes passed down to him from his father...has never adjusted. Mike Brown can and did have a hand in running some successful teams in the 1980's. The problem is that it's not 1988 anymore.

MB deserves credit but the old man was always there in the background when needed. He is the one that advised Sam to make some personal life changes after the 1987 season.

I thought they started into the abyss when they gambled and lost on Max Montoya staying here when he was a Plan B free agent. Verbal commitments only go so far. After that Jim McNally could only do so much with mid-level O-linemen.

[HairOnFire]

Interesting perspective on MB.

Keep in mind it isn't my perspective. It's his. And there's the rub because IMHO anyone who really wants to understand Mike Brown has to give considerable weight to the way he sees himself.

The problem is that the NFL drastically changed with plan B free agency shortly after Superbowl 23. Mike Brown in all of his hereditary innovation attributes passed down to him from his father...has never adjusted.

Actually, it's Paul Brown who never adjusted. Because even when serving as the Bengals GM Paul Brown never negotiated a single contract for the Bengals, always delegating those duties to Mike. To be fair, Mike shares many of his fathers beliefs, including the one about how a team presidents first responsibility is to shareholders, not to fans, but that's hardly unique in the NFL.

Suffice to say the Bengals have an established way of doing business and any coach they employ has to agree to work withing those parameters/constraints. To that end it's not hard to imagine Mike Brown not only reminding Marvin Lewis how he once agreed to work under those conditions, but almost certainly pointed to the success the Bengals have had under Lewis as proof that the system works....if the team is well coached.

[HairOnFire]

I thought they started into the abyss when they gambled and lost on Max Montoya staying here when he was a Plan B free agent. Verbal commitments only go so far. After that Jim McNally could only do so much with mid-level O-linemen.

I don't think there's any single moment or tipping point that defines when the culture changed in Cincy. Rather, I think the greater failure is the result of an inconsistent commitment to winning.

Nutshelled, in the past when the Bengals front office was confronted with bad Bengal teams that couldn't win under any circumstance leadership picked and chose what they would do to improve the team, to often believeing the cost of improving from awful to mediocre simply wasn't cost effective. And while that may be a logical way of doing business...the sport of football isn't based upon logic. Rather, it's based upon emotion, self sacrifice for the greater good, and a willingness to buy in. Players see when a team is fully committed to winning as opposed to picking and choosing when it will compete.

The end result is when the front office does commit itself to improving from good to great, as it seemed to do this season, too often the team simply doesn't jump when asked. Instead, the players do as the team so often does, deciding for itself how committed it will be in regards to winning.

At least that's my theory, and I cling to it even though I admit it may be thin on one end, thick in the middle, and thin on the other end.

[jjakq27]

I thought they started into the abyss when they gambled and lost on Max Montoya staying here when he was a Plan B free agent. Verbal commitments only go so far. After that Jim McNally could only do so much with mid-level O-linemen.

I don't think there's any single moment or tipping point that defines when the culture changed in Cincy. Rather, I think the greater failure is the result of an inconsistent commitment to winning.

Nutshelled, in the past when the Bengals front office was confronted with bad Bengal teams that couldn't win under any circumstance leadership picked and chose what they would do to improve the team, to often believeing the cost of improving from awful to mediocre simply wasn't cost effective. And while that may be a logical way of doing business...the sport of football isn't based upon logic. Rather, it's based upon emotion, self sacrifice for the greater good, and a willingness to buy in. Players see when a team is fully committed to winning as opposed to picking and choosing when it will compete.

The end result is when the front office does commit itself to improving from good to great, as it seemed to do this season, too often the team simply doesn't jump when asked. Instead, the players do as the team so often does, deciding for itself how committed it will be in regards to winning.

At least that's my theory, and I cling to it even though I admit it may be thin on one end, thick in the middle, and thin on the other end.

The Sam Wyche era was certainly marked with many of the same highs and lows that we have experienced lately. Sam and the organization seem to get a free pass since the team hasn't had the same relative success since then.

Dave Lapham once mentioned (10+ years ago) that they always seemed to be planning for the future but never seem to get there. Always planning, scheming and plotting for something down the road but no clear plan on the destination or how to get there.

I chose Montoya's departure because it seemed like that event was the start of a complete dismantling of the Super Bowl team that occurred within two or three seasons, leading to the "Lost Decade" of the 1990's.

[HairOnFire]

The Sam Wyche era was certainly marked with many of the same highs and lows that we have experienced lately. Sam and the organization seem to get a free pass since the team hasn't had the same relative success since then.

Exactly. Obviously there are times when this team's talent level is so poor it couldn't win, but the more perplexing examples are like those we just experienced, again, where a talented team simply doesn't compete as it should. And ignoring the offense for a moment I'm reminded once again of Zimmers comments about how satisfied his defensive players seemed to be with the previous seasons performance. Zimmer admitted the trust he had shown his players was misplaced, and concluded he hadn't worked them hard enough during the preseason, a failure he promised would not be repeated. Hopefully that's true, but it doesn't change the core truth that rather than take the next step from good to great this teams players are too often satisfied with a reputation built upon not sucking. As long as they're not embarrassing themselves they're pretty satisfied. The end result is a cycle of complacency followed by suprising seasons where players actually respond to coaches who motivate using the all too familiar rant of being disrespected. And there's the rub because coaches weren't able to use that tool last season precisely because this team was respected. On paper they were contenders. For a brief moment in time they were the darlings of the local media.

Dave Lapham once mentioned (10+ years ago) that they always seemed to be planning for the future but never seem to get there. Always planning, scheming and plotting for something down the road but no clear plan on the destination or how to get there.

I'd say that's fairly common in sports. In fact, the thing that puzzles me most about how the Bengals do business is the odd mix of moves that simultaneously address rebuilding and contending. I admit it's hard for me to quantify, but nutshelled....the Bengals never seem to fully commit to either team building strategy. When rebuilding they too often stunt the developement of young players by keeping older players past their expiration date. And when attempting to contend they lean too heavily on young players who aren't capable of handling the load placed upon them.

[Sea Ray]

Exactly. Obviously there are times when this team's talent level is so poor it couldn't win, but the more perplexing examples are like those we just experienced, again, where a talented team simply doesn't compete as it should. And ignoring the offense for a moment I'm reminded once again of Zimmers comments about how satisfied his defensive players seemed to be with the previous seasons performance. Zimmer admitted the trust he had shown his players was misplaced, and concluded he hadn't worked them hard enough during the preseason, a failure he promised would not be repeated. Hopefully that's true, but it doesn't change the core truth that rather than take the next step from good to great this teams players are too often satisfied with a reputation built upon not sucking. As long as they're not embarrassing themselves they're pretty satisfied. The end result is a cycle of complacency followed by suprising seasons where players actually respond to coaches who motivate using the all too familiar rant of being disrespected. And there's the rub because coaches weren't able to use that tool last season precisely because this team was respected. On paper they were contenders. For a brief moment in time they were the darlings of the local media.

I'd say that's fairly common in sports. In fact, the thing that puzzles me most about how the Bengals do business is the odd mix of moves that simultaneously address rebuilding and contending. I admit it's hard for me to quantify, but nutshelled....the Bengals never seem to fully commit to either team building strategy. When rebuilding they too often stunt the developement of young players by keeping older players past their expiration date. And when attempting to contend they lean too heavily on young players who aren't capable of handling the load placed upon them.

I think Zimmer didn't judge his talent properly. What gave him the idea that Odom was ready to be an NFL starter in 2010? There wasn't another D-lineman on the roster who couldn't out perform him as of Sept. Simply put, he wasn't ready. I also think his reluctance to put Rey at MLB gave us too much of a slow Dhani Jones. Why haven't we seen more of Brandon Johnson?

[jjakq27]

The Sam Wyche era was certainly marked with many of the same highs and lows that we have experienced lately. Sam and the organization seem to get a free pass since the team hasn't had the same relative success since then.

Exactly. Obviously there are times when this team's talent level is so poor it couldn't win, but the more perplexing examples are like those we just experienced, again, where a talented team simply doesn't compete as it should. And ignoring the offense for a moment I'm reminded once again of Zimmers comments about how satisfied his defensive players seemed to be with the previous seasons performance. Zimmer admitted the trust he had shown his players was misplaced, and concluded he hadn't worked them hard enough during the preseason, a failure he promised would not be repeated. Hopefully that's true, but it doesn't change the core truth that rather than take the next step from good to great this teams players are too often satisfied with a reputation built upon not sucking. As long as they're not embarrassing themselves they're pretty satisfied. The end result is a cycle of complacency followed by surprising seasons where players actually respond to coaches who motivate using the all too familiar rant of being disrespected. And there's the rub because coaches weren't able to use that tool last season precisely because this team was respected. On paper they were contenders. For a brief moment in time they were the darlings of the local media.

The sad part is that we have seen this played out multiple times over the last 20 years. Coslet admitted it happened to him in 1997 after taking over for Dave Shula during 1996. Same for LeBeau when he took over in 2000 for Coslet then had a disappointing 2001 with the same crew. In fact at some point (1989 or 1991) I think Sam Wyche even said he let up on the gas after a successful season and the payoff was a sub-par season.

I think Zimmer used the "outcast/reject, us-against-the-world" mentality as motivation which worked but again they were unable to sustain that in 2010. Zimmer may be willing to man-up and take the blame but some of the seeds were sown by Marvin during the offseason. When asked to compare the 2005 team with the 2009 group he said that the previous team was immature and he had confidence that these guys are pros and wouldn't stumble like 2006. I don't think too many franchises have the luxury of being self-policed and have the maturity and discipline to take care of their business on their own. So once again they overestimated the makeup of this team.